MIS dropping fabled set gear REVISITED - (Keep it real)

Why don't they just move the stakes to Freethinkers. Make it a repeatable quest that requires killing the last name, a drop or something.
As for EH keep the volume of trash but reduce their HP by 50% - 60%.
The MMIS named were a little cakeish... but gawd if they add curse of insanity to enyenti (sp) I'll friggin scream. Theres no reason to go overboard SOE.

I don't see why everyone thinks the stakes will be REQUIRED sure they will make the zone easier but lets be realistic like I posted above the difficulty "upgrade" will just be some bull[I cannot control my vocabulary] upgrade adding more HP, adds, a memwipe etc. I would bet that there is no way the stakes are 100% required to clear the zone they will be more of a reward for getting to the 3rd floor of EH.

I hope they make the stakes required to kill the named, preventing many from even attempting them anymore, cause nobody would want to deal with endless hours in EH and then people just start saying f this crap and leave and all the l33t people that have endless hours to play can sit around and tell each other how l33t they are and /shrug, /sigh and get emo with each other while wondering where everyone went. So SOE, pretty please with [I cannot control my vocabulary]ing sugar on top, don't introduce crap that takes endless hours to complete in one sitting. It would be a waste of your resources and un-economical to cater to I'm guessing (just throwing a number out), .005% of your player base that can play for endless hours. But hey, if 1/4 of the new raid content being designed for .005% of your playerbase was your intention just go right ahead but please, tell us now if this is the direction you are going. Thanks!

I agree there is no real way for them to make mmis harder then EH w/o a true revamp on script. Instead i am sure they opted to just make the aoe's hit harder. Adds hit harder etc. For them to require the stakes would mena they would need to increase the named hp's to the point where dps'ing the named from 6% to 2% would be im possible w/o the stake. (inqusitors can bring the named from 2% to 0%) Which means 50k+ raid spike dps could at max take out 2-3%, then use a spike, then inquisitor. This wont happen because then the nameds would need like 10 million hp's =P.
Now what they could do is either give the named a strong life tap at 10% health or cast alot of wards/heal.

Have you ever noticed that the guilds that "got there first" and exploited all the bugs for months are the biggest complainers when everyone else catches up to them legitimately? All those old guilds which, by virtue of being a guild sooner, managed to benefit from all the exploits that have since been removed -- farming raid zones for months and getting completely geared out against encounters which were much easier. All of it pre-combat change too -- these same guilds demand that other players not have it as easy as they did. "Make it harder for everyone else, so we're the only ones with the best gear", they demand.

And so we get the combat changes -- mitigation and avoidance nerfs, a new stat curve which moved many of us from the cap to about 40%.

Well here's something you need to know. Yes, you had it easier, and yes, you got the gear first because you got there first, and yes, we will probably get nerfed again before we catch up to where you are, and yes, the mobs will be harder and drop worse loot by the time we get there, but we're better than you and when we get to where you are, it won't be because of exploits and better drop rates and easier mobs -- that's how you got there. No, when we get there it will be because of planning and execution, and because we're better than you.

So keep whining about how it's too easy for everyone else now that you're done exploiting. Let the nerfs come. It won't change anything in the long run, because we're better and we'll be where you are soon.

And the best part is that when the next expansion comes out, we'll be ready to take down the new zones right from the start. And we'll have gear as good as yours by then, but our tactics and execution will be better because we actually had to face the encounters as they were intended, after we were nerfed. So we'll be taking down the zones before you. So keep whining.
Message Edited by IKilled007 on 01-30-2007 05:59 AM
Message Edited by IKilled007 on 01-30-2007 06:03 AM

Beat a hard version of the mob? You mean before all the combat changes? You mean back when the mobs were easily exploited to victory? Give me a break.

Yeah, I can't wait to see The Brotherhood from Everfrost doing worldwide firsts in the next expansion.

Although this thread is about how getting fabled set gears was made easier for the people that "got there last" such as you. Those who "got there first" didn't get the same loots from the easy named you guys are now able to kill and get easy loots from, they got crap items for the most part.

So I'm not sure what you were thinking when you posted this, but you sure were wrong in your assumptions, as it's the opposite of what actually happened. In fact, nameds in MMIS started to drop better items only when the casual guilds started to kill them.

And I'm only talking about MMIS here, I could give a lot of other examples of things made easier for the people trying to catch up with the best guilds, there are plenty of them. Tarinax being the biggest joke ever is one of them, you can basically kill him in about 1 minute now, and that's counting the 2 adds that will pop during that time (no mezzing, they just die in a few seconds), and with a mage tanking for the most part because of the reset and not dying once even though the tanks didn't feel like saving him by getting the aggro back on them, he didn't even die to the facial AE that used to wipe a full raid before.

So next time you feel like posting, make sure you know what you're talking about.

Anyway, it's a done thing. Inner Sanctum is obviously supposed to be last in Raid Progression because of a) Wolfsbane will finally drop off Wuoshi, b) Inner Sanctum is getting harder, c) Stakes that make it easier to kill Vampires drop in Emerald Halls, and d) Bloom Petals are given that prevent Vampiric de-levels in Emerald Halls. Pretty sure those 4 things pretty much sum it all up.

So I wonder if they are going to do something to Emerald halls because that zone is a [I cannot control my vocabulary]ing joke.
Message Edited by dalessit on 01-31-2007 08:12 AM

Anyway, it's a done thing. Inner Sanctum is obviously supposed to be last in Raid Progression because of a) Wolfsbane will finally drop off Wuoshi, b) Inner Sanctum is getting harder, c) Stakes that make it easier to kill Vampires drop in Emerald Halls, and d) Bloom Petals are given that prevent Vampiric de-levels in Emerald Halls. Pretty sure those 4 things pretty much sum it all up.
Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

EH is supposed to be hard, nearly impossible if you haven't worked your way up in the progression. Fighting in EH without full AAs, new top end equipment, and some nice adornments, is like fighting in deathtoll without being level 70.
And here I was thinking that 1 comment summed it up...

He also didn't say where Inner Sanctum was in Progression either. All he said was that it was up there near the top. But considering how easy nice adornments are to get, and new top-end equipment was obviously not required, and full AAs were also not required, it's completely dumb how his comment was made but was obviously completely untrue.

EH is being done in ~6-7 hours now. There are ways to make the zone move along faster mostly due to the poor way it is set up. People can yell off trash on the first 2 floors And not every single trash mob needs to die. Which basically drop nothing and burn w/o regard to mana etc. I still do not like the random named. it allows one instance to be harder then another and really if all the named were up it would not matter if 1 named was easier then another because then they all have to die anyway. I would still like to see the # of adds reduced by ~25, and the named removed from the random spawn.

Yeah the only real way i can see his statement holding true for any EOF zone is if the new MMIS named that require a 6% burn actually do require manaburns, lifeburns, decap, assasinate type burns AND possibly the 3% stakes and/or the inquisitor 2% kill. I doubt they new improved named will need all that but some mix of this may be necessary.
But really adornments and/or the new equipment do not add much. And only a few AA's stand out. I still do not think MMIS will be as hard as EH.
Message Edited by Gungo on 01-31-2007 08:42 AM

He also didn't say where Inner Sanctum was in Progression either. All he said was that it was up there near the top. But considering how easy nice adornments are to get, and new top-end equipment was obviously not required, and full AAs were also not required, it's completely dumb how his comment was made but was obviously completely untrue.
Granted alot of SoE/Dev comments are vague, the problem was from complaints that some named were abit too easy, and PU raids were clearing the easiest 2 mobs w/ no problems. Even the fix mentions the increase in difficulty was to reflect the quality of the drops, not progression. All in all, it wasnt an issue with progression IMO, but an issue of pleasing true raidguilds who didnt want the average joe to do this anymore.

To reflect on previous progressions, if you gave a completly casual guild 1 DT access holder they could clear the The Hurler and Fitz with no problems. Even with the previous difficulty they were straighfoward fights and cake. However the same casual guild might not be able to kill Vyemm.

So "Mayong" maybe the Boss of EoF, who knows, however that dosent mean the other named need to be harder than any others in a zone. Clearing EH (or atleast getting the nifty items) may make MM easier, but definitly not needed for the other named. Even if now that they are harder, vampire stakes is just 7% (bah, spike the raids DPS) de-lvl preventor is nice, necessary? no. Wolfsbane? I got one solo.
Just my opinions... I think the mobs will be a little harder but nothing even close to requiring EH with the exception of MM, and thats a maybe.

I can almost garantee it wont. It is not like MMIS all of a sudden will have 5 gardener/rum type fights before mayong. The scripts in MMIS are not even close to being that hard. They would of needed to rescript every named in MMIS. Which i doubt they did. Instead they probabyl increased and added abilities to these named. Thats is all. the named are harder, but no where near the difficulty of EH hard named.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=170374#M170374

1. Players can receive it as a quest reward from the Tunare Deity Quest Line. You will receive one wolfsbane, and this can not be repeated.
2. Groups defeating Wuoshi will find five Tunarian Wolfsbane's. This can be repeated.

There are no other current sources of Tunarian Wolfsbane in the game.

Is that not proof enough that the "intended" progression was EH then MIS?

Not really.
All that is saying you won't be able to beat the boss mob of MMIS without clearing EH.
IMO that is acceptable but if they make it so you need to clear EH to kill anything in MMIS then alot of people will be pissed.
2 raid zones in EoF expansion are not going to hold peoples attention until next expansion. (since alot of people don't have 10+ hours to kill all of EH)

Ok, we'll heres a finer look at progression then...
MMIS named

EH named

MMIS boss
I suppose if you were killing Mayong on a reqular basis before, a romp thru EH isnt so bad. Personally I agree 100% with the above comment. Expecially if MM is the end mob for the next epic line (and according to some, lore says he is). Theres no reason to make a 6+ hour zone a prerequisite for completion of the next epic quest.
Make individual mobs as hard as you want, just dont try and take our time away from us.

Nobody complained that SotL took 6+ hours when it first came out for the not so-great guilds. Yet when EH comes out, people complained. Completely odd, imo.

Nice try, hero. Let me tell you something about the guilds that got there first. Ever hear of Ebonlore/Malice? Back when dragons had loot tables 15 items long, those guys were pulling mobs into walls to cancel out the AOEs. You think people don't know that most mobs are bugged when the first guilds get to them? That they can be exploited and farmed for months before it comes to the Devs' attention? And that only after you've farmed the hell out of them you begin whining for fixes? We do know. We've seen it firsthand. So spare me the talk about how much easier things are now. There has been a combat change, my friend. We got pushed back to the middle of the curve on all stats. Or maybe you're not familiar with the mitigation and avoidance changes. If that's the case, just do a seach on the forums and you can have it explained to you why killing these mobs now is a lot harder than killing them when you did it. You can read post after post about how Guild [x] could take down the Drake or Tarinax or whatever on a weekly basis before the changes, but post change, they can't beat it at all.

Well we never had it easy like you did. We never got to use any exploits (of which there were hundreds, documented on these very forums -- just do some searches for Ebonlore/Malice), and we never fought these mobs pre-combat change. But we can beat them. So don't be surprised when our guild is getting server firsts or even worldwide firsts as of the next expansion. But talk is cheap. We'll have to see what we see.