Mercenaries

gourdon wrote:

As soon as you start applying statistics to this very top-heavy game, every newbie out there will be passed over for a group. This is unacceptable. There should be reason to go back and mentor a new player assuming you're not conceeding that the entire reason for mercs is SOE doesn't have to worry about drumming up new players for the game.

Mrrshan@Runnyeye wrote:

I'm not derailing the thread. I'm making commentary that the suggestions were intended to be such that no one would ever use mercenaries. Instead, they should just say "no" and get it overwith.

gourdon wrote:

No he was making them less appealing, not useless. If you're going to say those suggestions made a merc useless then you're not seeing past the yes/no option either. Try adding a bit more substinance and a LOT less rhetoric.

Mercs in eq1 provide an excellent leg up to get players to max level with a bit less frustration.
Everyone knows that as mmos get older, the availability for help along the way is few and far between. Most players are already at the top level. The merc will make it quite a bit easier to get to the top without missing so much of the content as they go.
--Feedback----
1. In terms of cost, the difference between eq1 and eq2 when it comes to money drops is quite drastic. (as an example in eq1 at level 59 my mage spends 35 plat every fifteen minutes for a tier 5 apprentice merc, this much money would be far too much in eq1.
2. Start out where only the apprentice mercs are available. The journeyman level mercs should definately be quested.
3. Disable them in raid zones.
4. Lengthen the respawn timer on mercs when suspended by characters. In eq1 i think it is about 5 minutes. Make it 15 minutes to prevent people from abusing merc healers as pocket buffers.
5. EQ2 specific request. Allow people to own multiple mercs, but only "equip" one. The remainders can be left to occupy the players house. So let's say that i currently have my tank merc with me but i get a small group going and a player tank is in the group. I pop back to my house, leave the tank home and grab the dps caster merc instead. Mercs residing in the house do not charge their fee.
6. Auto name only. Players will most certainly abuse the heck out of the naming filter if they are allowed to name them.

Danger@Guk wrote:

Disabling them in raid zones was already proven stupid in EQ1. There is no reason to do that here. If you're going to give groupers easy-street entitlements, give it to raiders too.
"Everyone knows that as mmos get older, the availability for help along the way is few and far between."
Which can be fixed fairly easy with a little marketing.

They already said the only way a henchman would be better than a player was if the player was on auto follow, what more do you need to realize this won't unbalance any group or raid content? This seems to me to be a help for the long lonely trek for a new player from level 1 to 90 and then maybe on some of their solo quest content to add AA. Maybe it would help that player mentor down and do some of the group zones they cannot do because no one is doing them.
I just don't see the issue. The population is already in serious decline, and I've postulated before that a large part of that is indeed this long lonely trek a brand new player sees ahead of them, any attempt to help them level up quicker and less painfully will be more possibility of a subscriber IMO. Yeah I know, you leveled the hard way, you went to school in the snow, barefoot, uphill both ways, yeah we know. But the fact is that this game has grown in a way that makes a brand new fresh player very very intimidated by all the pre-requisites to even get to a place in the game where they would group with anyone.
Now in terms of making the henchmen strong enough for a group setting for level 90's zones, yeah I can see where people would not be happy about this, although personally I wouldn't care. But give a henchman the same abilities, aa, etc as a real player and most times I'd rather have the real player. What happens in those oh crap moments when the healer has to cast an emergency death spell, what about those weird times you need your mage to dispell a mob, or a chanter mez a certain mob and keep him mezzed and away from the encounter. No I don't see henchmen ever replacing players unless it was a desperate measure from a group who just couldn't find that last group member. I just think the declining population argument, while it may be true in certain instances (but not for how SOE has already stated they are implementing them), there are bigger fish to fry in terms of helping the dwindling population than arguing against mercenaries. If anything arguing against mercenaries, as SOE plans to implement them (important to understand this), will take away help for new players and IMO help dwindle the population.

Rick777 wrote:

They really should be not allowed in a mentoring group -- seriously if one person mentors, thats it, mercs go poof.
They should also go "POOF" in pvp or at least duels as a duel is 1 vs 1 and I don't feel like waiting all day waiting to watch guardian+merc vs paladin+merc combo.

As long as the merc doesn't ask me my crit mit and crit chance every time I log in, I'm good.

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

No if they're like EQ1 if you don't have enough crit-mit, they'll actually wait until you engage a mob and then run away with you left to deal with the mob yourself.

i dont understand why others dont want them and been telling devs dont do it, from what i see, i think they are beneficial and it is just optional for those who need it when they cant get anyone to help them with older zones.
devs, just go ahead what is planned, regardless what other said no, just make sure they are very balanced, and also most of those zones still have timers, more penalty for reset the zones by extending the timers if using merc as exploits for farming, then that is win-win situation for all parties, no overfarming, thier purpose of mecenaries is to finish the task of "helping the quests get updated".
i have same problems for last several weekends since eq2 got shut down, i cant find any group, i had a help but nothing last for few days, others had really busy days or plans. guild dont often help much, just few runs for shards, but that not enough.

Please don't make mercs a punishment for those who want to use them. One of the biggest benefits of them will be for new players who need a little extra help. These players will have no money, so the sink will really hurt them. I recently had two of my brother-in-laws come play the game and while my husband and I tried to help them out as much as possible, they would sometimes play at odd hours and want to run things a little difficult to solo. A mercenary would have been perfect for them. Something like this might have actually inspired them to stick with the game, since they're already gone.
I know some people on here are so against mercenaries that they just want to make them as underpowered and full of hassle as possible, but please remember the purpose behind them. I dont want a humanoid fluff pet to follow me around and eat up my xp and loot while giving a weak buff! It is incredibly hard to find sub-90 groups, they just don't happen because people can't find a tank or a healer or dps to fill them out. I was under the impression that mercenaries would help fix that, but now they're being reduced to nothing? I'm in a guild but we're very casual and do not require members to participate - it's a fantastic set up for that type of gameplay and I will never change it - however sometimes it's just me on a 90 running low guildies through RE or whatever because we can't find a tank in or outside of the guild. I'd rather run the dungeon on a lowbie alt to keep the difficulty, but it's not even an option. Here I see a chance for mercenaries to address this.

Lalen@Everfrost wrote:

To be quite honest, every time a newbie gets a group it is an investment in the future or charity, because they aren't contributing enough to matter and slow a group down because they don't know where to go or what to do. Mercenaries aren't going to take a single slot from a newbie in a veteran group, because their current value is near or below zero already.

Roslyn wrote:

Though I doubt they will, there is a problem with your statement there... punishing people for using them. You do realize how wrong that is right? If there is no incentive for people to group, people won't, flat out. Some here claim they will but when it is time for them to cash those checks you'll find the checkbook will be empty. But what I find the most baffeling is that you're acting like an uber merc is "owed" to you. That just rubs against the grain a bit with me.
gourdon wrote:

What a really poor way to view a new player, that same player that pays the same thing you do per month -- and you wonder why players don't stick around... Check what you just said again.

Lalen@Everfrost wrote:

Actually, I was calling out the rhetoric. He was using the strategy of trying to suggest features that would kill the idea, not make it better. If you think of a scale from 0 to 10 where 0 is no mercenaries and 10 is 4x raid with one player and 23 raid statted mercs, he was suggesting something that could only be rated -1 where the mercenary would be worse than nothing at all. Nearly useless, expensive, random theft and rage quit is not serious suggestion by any stretch of the imagination.

Lalen@Everfrost wrote:

Please stop trolling. You're going to refute everything anyone says and put words into peoples' mouths. I never said I wanted an "uber" merc, but it's hard to find lower level groups and our option shouldn't be A) don't run it (as it currently is most of the time!!!) or B) give up your xp and loot for a lame fluff pet that gives you a little buff and isn't worth it.

gourdon wrote:

Actually you're simply shooting down any ideas that do not make mercs a player replacement. Mercs shouldn't make it easy on you -- they should be a crutch and a crutch only. If you're group was unable to achieve a zone before a merc, maybe it should make it a little easier with a merc, but you should still be hobbling through thinking, "I'm grabbing the first person that pops up".
Roslyn wrote:

I substituted no words, I spoke of your attitude and it was not trolling to say the ideals you spew are unaccepable in my opinion especailly when you come across with the attitude that mercs should be equaly powered to players.

Lalen@Everfrost wrote:

New people in most every endeavor take time to get up to speed. It is the way of life. We invest in training them so they will be helpful in the future. You need to reread if you think anything there says they are worthless on the whole. They are just useless to the group at that moment. Most will get better.
Your argument is an appeal to pity. It isn't rational in that regard. This is why you got the last thread locked and this one in the near future.
PS I don't wonder why new players stick around. Maybe you should stop putting words into my posts.

gourdon wrote:

I don't have to put anything in your post... You did that yourself. That is a VERY negative way to view a newbie -- and its not pitty, it is a viewpoint and attitude from veterans that causes newbies to QUIT. If the majority of veterans have your same viewpoints about newbies, then I'll conceed -- this game ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE MERCS TO SURVIVE because no amount of advertising and marketing will fix the issue.

Gninja wrote:

A couple questions, and perhaps a suggestion or two.

Q - Will a Mercenary be a "pet", like a Summoner pet for instance? Or will it be an independant entity? A little confused as to exactly "what" a Mercenary will or will not be.
Q - I understand we can only have one Merc at a time, will we be forced to visit a city to swap out Mercs, similar to how we must visit a city to Chronomentor?

Suggestion - I would love to see something for Mercs akin to the Tactics availabe for NPC's in Dragon Age. It was a really slick system that allowed you to sort of "tailor" the behavior of the NPC's that you took in your party.

Gninja wrote:

There's a fine balance here I hope you strike. Too powerful and every one and their brother is using them instead of pugging (honestly with some pugs I've had.....) Too weak and it's not going to help those that truly need the help. I would love to see them be useful for 1 - 80 for sure. Good luck dancing this line.

Having said that If they are less useful than some one just hitting auto attack (not auto follow), then they are worthless. AFK Autofollow isn't helpful and AFK Auto Attack isn't much better.
Do we know what types of mercs the focus is on right now? Even in a rough general? I can't really give targeted feedback knowing nothing.