LU27 Warlock hate transfer

Discussion in 'Warlock' started by ARCHIVED-Mesphito, Aug 18, 2006.

  1. ARCHIVED-Cowdenicus Guest

    as compared to scouts? the problem in your example is 30 agro goes to the tank, and 970 agro goes to the warlock. So the warlock without support classes can AE once every what 20 seconds, maybe?
    What level is your warlock? Infact how many casters do you play?
    The other point that I would like to make is that tank in your situation will get about 90 agro before you start having dead warlocks because NO TANK can hold agro when a warlock is AEing. That is the problem and the issue.
  2. ARCHIVED-KazzySoJazzy Guest

    I do not have to have a warlock to understand the situation. It is all about aggro control, which most of you button pushers do not have. Also check the highlight in the quote, you mean no tank you know can do it, I have seen plenty who can. You are making a broad generalization from the limited experience you have with crappy tanks.
  3. ARCHIVED-TheStateFish Guest


    3% from each spell IS 3% of your total dps. It is entirely insignificant when you do say 100k damage in a fight. 100k would be low, or a shorter fight, but the point is for every 100k damage the sorceror does with this new deaggro on the MT that MT has only earned 2-3 extra taunts from that transfer. The MT is already spamming taunts every 8 seconds at least, and the biggest issue is with encounters, where tanks only have a 30 second aoe taunt plus whatever aoe dps they can muster. It isnt enough taunt to hold aggro from a warlock with all app1 spells. This deaggro would benefit warlocks the most, but 3% isn't gonna save a warlocks life under any conditions that they would otherwise have pulled aggro and died.

    Also in a raid, there won't be enough tanks for all the sorcerors to use the new deaggro, so some will get very little benefit (even less than the ones casting it) from the new spell. (warlock and wizard versions don't stack, and 2 of the same also don't stack, and it only works on fighters)

    Most scout classes reduce their aggro by 20-40%, and some don't dump it on another player, it just goes poof. summoners split their hate with their pets and can go nuts without ever pulling aggro, and that leaves sorcerors the only big dps with no means to get rid of hate on their own. We need something on par with level 70 scouts at level 70, not level 5 scouts at level 70.

    Tanks can not hold aggro from warlocks, even with amends there are ways to pull aggro if you want to, but in a general raid setting doing paced dps and letting the tank get set before starting, and even only starting to nuke hard at 50%, the spike dps that sorcerors do will still pull aggro. I don't know how a 70 monk can claim that only crappy tanks can't hold aggro from a warlock when even the most skilled monks can't hold aggro from me when I'm practically afk. Tank's don't have big enough taunts, and don't have enough aoe taunts for the aggro that sorcerors currently put out. 3% more isn't going to change that.

    Edited for clarity
    Message Edited by TheStateFish on 09-04-2006 08:49 AM
  4. ARCHIVED-Cowdenicus Guest

    Funny I would say I have grouped with some of the best tanks in the game. Do you not push buttons in this game?
    So what you are telling me basically, is you have no idea what a warlocks situation is, because you are completely ignorant of the class, but because you play a leather wearing tank, you think you know something about agro management correct? Funny, at one time I owned 8 count it 8 level 70 adventurers. You are probably right though, what do I know. (rolls eyes). I would argue though that you sir are completely uninformed as to the situation regarding warlocks and until you know what the true situation is, you should either ask questions, or look and remain silent.
    Reading your first post I thought you were merely uninformed about anything that would pertain to sorceror subjects, especially considering your lack of having one. Now though it has become abundantly clear you are merely trolling and ignorant of the situation. Your ignorance though is your choice. Enjoy it.
    Good day.
  5. ARCHIVED-Cowdenicus Guest

    Thank you for replying to that poster (and I am using the most liberal definiton of that word, more like troll) much better than I could ever.
  6. ARCHIVED-Scarrlette Guest

    If you do not have something useful to add to this convo, please do not post in the thread.
  7. ARCHIVED-MilkToast Guest

    I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. If a warlock manages aggro like you suggest they'll be doing tier 3 or 4 DPS. In that case, why would any want a warlock (a pure DPS class) when they can get any number of other classes that can do equivalent DPS with lots of other utility? If sorcerers and predators aren't doing tier 1 DPS they aren't desireable in a group or raid by design, because they have the least utility.
  8. ARCHIVED-KazzySoJazzy Guest

    First, I know that it is off of total dps, said that in my post, but above someone mentioned that if you do 1k dps (meaning avg dmg per second in a fight) you would only transfer 30 hate, just wanted to fix that misconception which is the whole reason I started to post here.

    I agree with the only fighter thing that is the only problem I see with the new change. It should be castable on any class, was talking about this the other night with a wizzy in my guild.

    Also never said I could hold aggro, I know how well monks hold aggro I am one :) But in response to this on a single target I will not only out dps you (which means I will hold aggro better), but you wont ever have it on you.


    Last, I prefer leather wearing DPS, as I am often out tanked by wizzies.
  9. ARCHIVED-Cowdenicus Guest

    no you would transger 30 hate per second while eating 970, which is completely unreasonnable. I apologize if that is patently unclear.
    Also, no monk should ever out dps a warlock. EVER.
  10. ARCHIVED-Cowdenicus Guest

    I agree, can you delete the monks ramblings as he obviously doesnt know what he is talking about, since he does not have a sorceror. Maybe this conversation would be better left to those who have a clue about sorceror and especially warlock agro problems.
  11. ARCHIVED-TheStateFish Guest


    Your posts don't help the cause, or shed new light on the subject. You can't out-dps a warlock even on a single target encounter. I know a wizard or 3 that are mad because warlocks can out-dps wizards on single target encounters, a monk doesn't stand a chance.

    You said that you thought 3% deaggro for a warlock is significant. I as a warlock am telling you it is the opposite of significant. Ever see that little gargoyle pet that follows us around? That thing is 2%, and there is no noticible difference with or without it.

    If a 3000 damage spell is going to pull aggro, a 2910 damage spell is also going to. Thats 3% less, meaning the tanks last taunt went from 1000 to 1090, if that sorc was lucky enough to put their hate on the MT. At the same time, the other 5 sorcerors that can't use the new deaggro still just hit for 3000. Meanwhile the scouts with 20-40% self deaggro are pumping a steady stream of dps while the sorcerors sit idle waiting for the tank to taunt again.
    With the current system the sorcerors need a troubador in their group and a coercer or dirge, and swash with the MT to generate enough hate to cast moderately (not all out).

    Currently we can only think about going all out if we accept death to burn adds fast for the raid, or know that what we're killing is going to die before we do (not often...think lyceum heroic at the bottom).

    No troub = death to sorcerors. Its an issue that 3% is not going to fix. You seem dead set against sorcerors getting equivilant deaggro to the other dps classes that have it already. We have always needed it as much as any of them do so please stop posting about things you know nothing about.
  12. ARCHIVED-Modean Guest

    Thanks,

    Message Edited by Modean on 09-05-2006 08:41 AM
  13. ARCHIVED-Cowled_Wizard Guest

    Was about to write something similar to the above poster, if we had a 20-30% transfer and if this then was allowed to stack with a Paladin amends in groups would this not mean we could open with our biggest Nukes on the pull, even a body pull, and we would never have to worry a bit about aggro as the Paladin would get more than 50% of our aggro. At the higher lvl's this would make Wizards and Warlocks overpowered and make other Tank classes obsolete in normal group situations when we were in the group. Of course if it cannot stack then 30% please
  14. ARCHIVED-TheStateFish Guest


    Agreed, but we can already stack amends41%, harmonious link23%, moderate33%, troub deaggro40%(idk the name, but i know its the flower), and that would give us 137% deaggro, plus our aa pet = 139%. it's just not economical to stack all those buffs on a single target...
    The system currently in place doesn't let you dump hate on the same target that already has hate transfer on you, the higher number will overwrite. Currently you can have 3 classes dump hate on the same tank and the tank put theirs on a 4th.
    If we did have a reverse amends with a good %, it would be either that or amends, but never both hate transfers dumping on the same tank. And seeing as we can already technically have 139% deaggro, giving us something equivilant to current scout deaggro skills (passive deaggro%/hate dump/threat priority reduction) would not be overpowering.
  15. ARCHIVED-KazzySoJazzy Guest

    Amen someone understanding that there is more to a sorc than spamming spells...

    Now I have not even mentioned the sorc aa pet, so you guys have that plus the new change, and new AA's coming out, sounds like you guys cant just have the world you need the universe too :)

    I think the LU 27 change is just a tip of the iceberg thing though as EoF is closer every day, and I have a feeling it will revolutionize eq2 as we know it. I may have high hopes but I think sony knows they need to do something to keep their niche of the market, and EoF is the expansion that will bring most of us what we have hoped for :)
  16. ARCHIVED-Cowdenicus Guest

    The point is now the devs have acknowledged they know there is an imbalance. On a single target encounter 3% is decent albeit not great news, but it is better than we had. Unfortunately, that is not where WARLOCKS are having the major problems. Our problems are based on anything other than what the tank has targeted at that moment.
    We have 2 choices, to be a lower dps and substituted out for a class that can put up real single target dops numbers, like conjurors, necros, wizards, brigs and assassins, or get some love in the agro and dps for ae situations.
  17. ARCHIVED-Cowdenicus Guest

    like..... ?????? sitting around waiting to cast spells?
  18. ARCHIVED-Modean Guest

    Lol... all classes wait to cast spells else there would not be recast timers....Duh....
  19. ARCHIVED-Malice83 Guest

    The last time I raided hate reduction was capped at 40%, and since then I haven't see nany change to this in the update notes. If they have changed this (stealth patch) please let me know. 40% is way to low... (I could use 80% or more..)
  20. ARCHIVED-TheStateFish Guest


    If there is a cap, it's much higher than 40% There is an obviuos difference between just Troub, and Troub+Coercer. Thats 63% already. Idk what cap there is if any, but i know that with troub+harmonious link+moderate and it's virtually impossible to take aggro.