Losing DI when canceling combine!

Discussion in 'Tradeskills' started by Bashem, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Bashem Well-Known Member

    Well as the title states I was recently making a green gem recipe and I wanted to see how many DI I had left so I stopped the process and then realized that I just lost 90 DI as it used as fuel for the recipe. That that a bad setup for people do the recipes themselves on top of paying a lot of etyma to buy the recipe. I can understand losing the fuel part for the recipe if it was fuel bought but it took me a long time to get 90 etyma and pretty mad its gone.I think this need to be fixed to avoid this happening in the future.
    suka likes this.
  2. Meirril Well-Known Member

    That is a painful way to learn, but the lesson is that you always finish the combine after you start it. You know that if you quit making something before you get to the first bar that your going to loose components. I don't see this as unfair or undesirable. It certainly isn't 'broken' so it doesn't need to be 'fixed'.

    Now if you want to provide an argument that explains why its bad to punish people for quitting a combine before they make any progress, please do so. The main argument here seems to be that DE shouldn't be treated as fuel, not that the system itself is bad.
  3. Encori Active Member

    I went linkdead crafting a green gem, and the recipient lost nothing (and I redid the combine when I got back in).

    Draconic incense is exempted from all other modifiers, including mass conservation, because it is specifically intended as a progression currency, or whatever you want to call it. As you say, it is not treated as fuel; therefore, it should not be lost on a failed or cancelled combine, either.
    suka likes this.
  4. Bashem Well-Known Member

    I not really sure why maybe someone can post here why fuel is consumed like it is anyways as was not playing when this rule was added. I think it has something to do with an exploit but not sure if thats the reason. As a side note the GM helped me get my fuel back but warned me if it happened again it would not help me and that it was my error that caused loss of the dragon incense. :oops: Now I just hope nothing happen in the future and scared of doing commissions of these recipes as I have all the recipes to help people make things.
  5. Mae- Well-Known Member

    If DI don't count towards conservation abilities like other fuels, it should not disappear when you cancel before the first line. There are plenty of reasons to cancel, like clicking the wrong recipe.
    suka likes this.
  6. CoLD MeTaL Well-Known Member

    Since you cannot 'just purchase' more DI, they should not poof for any reason on a failed/stopped combine.

    Tokens are special.
    suka likes this.
  7. Sucha Active Member

    To OP: There is nothing to fix as the DI is a fuel and fuel has always been used when canceling combines.

    To Mae: you should be verifying you have the recipe queued before starting the combine in the first place so clicking the wrong recipe is not a valid excuse for canceling.

    To Cold Metal: You can "just purchase" more DI if you have the etyma to do so. The Etyma is the currency used to purchase DI. The DI is a fuel and is rightly lost if a combine is cancelled.
  8. CoLD MeTaL Well-Known Member

    Sorry Sucha, Etyma have a timer, most if not all other fuels are purchased by plat which doesn't have a timer on acquisition which makes it not 'just purchaseable'. Nice try though.
  9. Quinnos Active Member

    I have seen a potential solution to the "losing fuel on combine" for this issue.

    I know some quests are set up to where the first "tick" of the combine automatically completes the first status bar level 100% so even if you drastically fail the rest of the combine you still got that.

    I think it was the manastone HQ that had a set up like that.
  10. Meirril Well-Known Member

    There is no way that dev is going to go for making every DI combine 2/5th shorter than the rest of the crafting by having the first bar auto-complete after a tick.
  11. Mae- Well-Known Member

    You're ridiculous. Mistakes happen. It's not a chronic problem, but I have lost DI before to having my mouse slip down just enough on my second click of a double-click to start a combine for the wrong rune. We shouldn't be punished for innocent mistakes.

    Lets face it, the whole making Etyma into Incense and using that incense as fuel was poorly thought out. First they don't want you to be able to conserve the fuel, then they don't give it back when you cancel before completing the first line. It shouldn't be a fuel component, it should be the main component so you always get it back.
    suka likes this.
  12. Ynnek Well-Known Member

    All 'token' fuels have *always* poofed on failure/cancel. This is nothing new.

    Void shards in TSO
    Marks of Manaar in SF
    Velium Shards in DoV
    Draconic Incense in ToV

    You can't argue DI are somehow unique or special, they're not. They're the mission currency for this expansion.

    Personally, I think they should all be equally eligible for loss, AND for Shawl/Conservation gain - neither is particularly unbalancing.... But nobody asked me ;)
  13. Sucha Active Member

    Mae, whether the mouse slips or not is not the game's / Dev's fault - it is a mistake made by the player. Again Etyma IS NOT the fuel, Draconic Incense is. Etyma is not at all hard to get. The only reason I could see for giving you back the DI would be if your system crashes before the combine completes, and even then it may have been a crash on the user's computer's part and not the game itself. You are welcome to disagree but fuel is fuel whether it is purchased with plat or with an alternate currency.
  14. Anghammarad Well-Known Member

    Etyma ist not at all hard to get... OK...

    When having just the chance to play mostly solo with a few groups now and then... you won't make much Etyma.

    Even when grouping... I'm thinking about a casual type player (this is 1-3 hours max an evening) you can just make that much instances... for example being goldie, doing the daily would be 30 Etyma. This includes the additional named. Then doing the Weekly would be 60-70 Etyma. Not every evening you got time to play.

    So Etyma are hard to get, if you don't have the time to run every daily with multiple alts.

    I for my part am able to gather around 120-300 Etyma a week mostly. (120 from the weekly crafting with 6 alts, rest from instances) I could do the dailies and weeklys 4 Times due to having 4 lvl 95 alts that are equipped to run these.

    Now I only got to find a group doing all this while I got time to play. (Raiding 3-4 evenings a week).

    This is only me. Others can play a lot less and are saving up several days if not weeks for 90 Etyma. Losing that is a real pain. Doesn't matter how you lose them.

    And you need Etyma for everything... runes, upgrade jewels, recepis, blowing your nose etc.
    suka likes this.
  15. Quinnos Active Member

    EQ2 is filled with examples of "There is no way a dev would do XYZ"

    What I mentioned isn't exactly a game breaking change either. You already spent time grinding out the fuel from doing dailies. A slightly shortened combine doesn't exactly change the "content consumption time" for the expansion that much.

    I know the amount of time people spend on the content treadmill is an important consideration in modern mmo's but I don't think this would have much, if any, impact on the length of time a person spends consuming the expansion.

    As for difficulty in obtaining an fuel, I don't think that's even a consideration to the topic at hand. Crafting has nothing to do with difficulty or challenge, it's entirely a grind. The grind in this case is obtaining the fuel so the "challenge" has already been met.
  16. Azian Well-Known Member

    I agree. Using it as the fuel was a bad idea. It fits the role that the primary ingredient has fulfilled on other combines through the years. Not sure why it was made the fuel in this expac. Probably a better solution would be to have to purchase an "unrefined yellow/blue/green gem" that would be used as the primary ingredient for the same cost of etymas that we currently have of DI. The crafter would then refine the gem to make it functional.
    Quinnos likes this.