Am I the only one who thinks lifeburn is almost back to its TSO roots where its almost not worth it to cast anymore? I mean looking at it... It's almost not worth casting for the amount of risk it en tales and ammount of dps i get out of it... even on a 2min 2x pull on Kaden in TOV ( a relatively easy fight considering the second half of ToV is much more risky to lifeburn on..) I got two resets of lifeburn, so 30 hits.. median of 2.8 high of 3.2mill per tick.. with a low of 2.2.and i only got 420k out of lifeburn.. out of a 6.7million parse, it was like 4th on my parse,, behind crush, soulrot, rotflesh and ofcourse our green (which is amazing btw ty sony).. Now my gear isnt the greatest being as I switched from a raiding assassin.. to my necro.. which has a terrible left side, but a very strong right side.. gearwise. But im thinking with all the health buffs im getting from healer in my group and the templar casting hp buff on me pre-lifeburn and single target heals if they can...It just doesnt seem worth the hassle of dying.. bugging utility for buffs back before the fight is over..And so on... for a measly 450k on a straight burn fight.. Now on the swarm pets... why is conjy communion swarm so strong.. and can be casted so much faster than undead horde.. sure undead horde is amazing on a timewarp.. but recast is soooo long... and ive seen communion hits for upwards of 4mill... best swarm pet hit I've ever got is 2.4million from Awakened Grave on TW. And neither awakened grave nor blighted horde can hold a candle to communion...And like i said undead horde is kinda beast.. specially on a group of mobs... but sometimes they die right away... but none of that matters because the recast is SO SO long...Mabey lower that a bit and make lifeburn hit harder or tick less hard on the caster? idk.. that being said, I'm new to necro. So if any info is wrong or just plain bad.. let me know. But these are things that are frustrating me as a necro in a top5 guild. In addition, I was going to post this in Ani's thread about broken summoner mechanics ... but I didn't want to undermine his efforts to help summoners what so ever, and being this is a straight necro concern and.. well he hates necros ..But, as a longtime raiding summoner with respect around the community, Aniathor is an asset to the summoner community.. And im very thankful to him and sony for helping us out with broken mechanics. I rlly appreciate it guys! Thoughts, comments... suggestions.. very welcomed.
I'd say causing Lifeburn's damage to be recorded and altogether hit a 2nd time if it ticks to completion would be a good way to reward Necro's for playing the "risk" well without going too far.
Trying to figure out which "green" you are saying is amazing, because Pandemic is "meh" at best and only worth it on 3+ mob group encounters. I don't parse 6 mil, i can get close to or just over 3 on burn fights with a good illy and me not being stupid (my timing has been off since I am just back from a couple month break), but I still feel LB is worth it. The risk is generally minimal if your healer isn't lazy. I don't even get out-of-group buffs on my LB anymore (no mystic for Bolster, I don't ask the templar for buffs ahead of LB cast) and still feel it's worth it. I can heal MOST of the damage myself (not all, for sure) and so long as my healer has her HOT's running (and maybe toss a single target heal if there's other damage happening) I'm good. Perhaps if I was parsing like you, I would feel differently.
pretty snazzy Idea mogrim, If the healers are onboard with it.. lol. you play an alt raiding healer.. so obviously you think it could be handled!
Pandemic did like 675k for me... on 2 mobs (obviously) lol. It seems Strong. It may be even more worth it to cast it even on a single target versus Vamp bats on a timewarp, but id have to verify that in raid... But Bro 450-500k out of lifeburn... with 2 refreshes on a 2 n half min fight??? How often do you get 2 refreshes in a 2min and half min fight? lol LB Seems Not that strong. Oh and That parse I didnt have ut or animal form..or UT.. (other than dragon aa self UT), was in Mogrims group .
I too have slowed down on my casting of LB as it doesn't seem as efficient at this time. Will have a closer look at Pandemic though. Great thread Laserbeak.
+1 to manaburn being useless! Undead horde shld have it's reuse reduced down to imo, maybe to 2mins, any lower it wld have to have its dmg adjusted. Doubt they wld do much for lifeburn as far as reducing the dmg it does to the caster, but maybe throw an aoe immunity for the caster for its duration? The risk is still there on mobs with constant ticking dmg but makes it somewhat easier to manage on fights that have both ae's and constant dmg ticks.
Agreed - Lifeburn is back to being a lackluster ability. Your dmg ticks are 10-20% lower than they could be due to gear/gear choices Lazer, but overall that doesn't change the point. People that say "it's still good dps; it's worth casting" - yes, you're right about that but it's just not amazing like it's supposed to be, too dangerous in many important encounters that punish dying with additional mob buffs and additionally a major distraction for the healer. As a whole package, Lifeburn is back to blah. LB's 300-600k dps is no longer the 'amazing' dps that I can placate the healer with that has to heal me, telling them to imagine themselves doing it. Healing 1m+ healthpool Lifeburn is not difficult for an excellent druid, but it's a serious task; with any below-average healer that comes thru the getto g4 raid group, I pretty much don't bother LBing. You can only 'mostly self-heal yourself thru it' in low-HP gear or non-raid buffs and in minimal lag. In medium+ lag I pretty much don't bother with LB because even with good healer half my ticks will be cut off; and as we all know high-end raiding lags pretty much constantly. I like the idea of assigning another copy of LB damage to the healer. Meaning LB total will do 2x more, but half of it will be done by whoever heals the LB damage (some of which will probably be the Necro via lifetaps). It will certainly remove my guilt towards the healer over using it. But is likely going to be too complicated for SoE to implement. ============================= Undead Horde - I have no controlled environment data to compare it to Communion or whatever it's supposed to match up with over at Conj. When I was playing as Conj swarm pets weren't on a hotbar. Strictly from fun perspective - 5m recast (with 100% reuse) on Undead Horde is too long. I hate my Undead Horde timer. If for whatever reason I can't squeeze it in properly pre-TW or it gets wasted due to moving or unexpected stoneskins, I'm pretty much no longer competing for 1st dps. With that 5m recast I make a real-life QQ face when it happens. I'd very much like to see it at 3m recast (with 100% reuse in effect), and that now-useless AA in Necro tree Enhance: Blighted Horde should be 10% chance to reset Undead Horde instead.
I like mogrim's idea. It would be a nice boost, but without potency/cb affecting the ability, lifeburn will suffer from the same scaling issues it has currently. The amount of damage points per point of hp could be lowered if need be, but please let it scale with upgrades.
I can relate to alot of this, twist and I appreciate you posting. And i think twisty you saw me in BG gear/spec. Im coming from a raiding assassin so my right side is strong.. including all three uplifting swings procs (my left side is terribad tho)...which is also why I take no stamina gear (two pieces) for the extra wdb, and I'll tell ya why...For instance..on Mutagenic.. my crush did 1.4mill and lifeburn (with 50 hits) did 550k... So why should I cater to something that usually does less than half of my auto attack... I am also calling for undead horde to be 3min recast and Blighted horde having a chance to reset is a very good idea too.. Either together or apart. And communion is more along the recast of blighted and awakened... but even on kelpin n caden.. where made sure awakened was cast pre-tw. and it did 550k... communion did over 900k for our conjy... just seems unbalanced.. especially with EB hitting so hard without any of the danger of Lifeburn. But yeah lifeburn needs some love that's for sure, Im not saying change a ton of mechanics.. and albeit twisty's idea good.. I also can't see SOE dedicating time and effort for that elaborate of a change, but bonus ticks... mogrims idea? that seems like something that is do-able.. and the healers can just doeal with it and get it done.. More raid dps = more mobs dead = more priest gear... Or even tweak the health to damage back a little stronger..idk...But at any rate I hope we get some more people in here discussion and supporting these idea.. becuase I think two smallish changes.. with undead horde and lifeburn and necro's would be very much so on par with a like skilled conjy. And even coming from an assassin I've been having alot of fun playing a necro... its a cool class... so...Lets hope we can get some Dev's in on this convo! thanks again guys.
I would love for Undead Horde to get some love. It's good but not good enough to warrant it's recast time. It's funny because my husband plays a conjy, and I play a necro, and we always bicker over the whole LB/EB comparison. I know they're not meant to be compared 1:1 because they were introduced at different times, but it's hard not to compare them. Same with Undead Horde and Communion. Conjy wins in both those comparisons, IMO. I'm not near clever enough to suggest changes to LB to make it better without making it OP'd, but I am not sure Twisty's idea is even feasible. That's a tough thing to code. I think allowing LB to improve with our gear is paramount to keeping it a viable option. And adding extra heath to gear and saying "hey, that improves LB" isn't right Let Pot/CB affect it again. It was never OP'd when it did.
Yeah Conjy def stronger on both points... awakened grave or blighted don't even hold a candle to communion. And I would love for them to do twisty's idea.. I just think mogrims would be much easier to implement... Remember it is going to be hard enough To get ANY changes, let alone ones that make alot of work for such a small dev team. So keeping my fingers crossed... I hope dev's have seen this and the word has been passed to someone who'd be interested in seeing necro's a little less ****. And im against having to go all max health gear...for something so dangerous to cast in harder content...While conjy's get to go pure cb/pot/cast and get all the more reforge room ... Anyways.. thanks for Post Mae!
I agree, Mogrim's idea is great, and we know those mechanics already exist, so implementing it shouldn't be too difficult.
Here I thought Mac was the last raiding Necro. Lifeburn damage should be increased if you want to maintain the health cost,it was a class defining ability at one point, same problem occurs in tov itemisation, too much 'risk' for too little 'reward'. Need to fix the health cost of spells in general, using % based is archaic since the hp inflation, this includes other classes, monk etc. There's more but Mac is a lot better at complaining than me.
Yeah there's a few of us left.. hahaha. and +1 to everything you said... I just hope they actually consider helping us out just a bit. You should tell mac to come help me complain. Us necros have to stick together if we want any action on these changes!
Lifeburn definitely needs a boost. It was amazing at the start of the expansion since our HP skyrocketed even with quest gear. But once you actually get decent gear, it's not really worth focusing on. It's still generally worth casting, although on a kill that actually matters, you could likely wipe the raid for some measly damage. For an ability that can easily get you killed, takes forever to cast and has a long recast, you would expect it to be amazing. Here are some ideas: 1) Increase the damage. With close to 1 mil HP, it does like 25 mil damage. Considering it takes 2.5 seconds to cast, its DPS is only around 10 mil. However, this is with all %HP gear, which basically means your other damage like autoattack goes down. So any damage you gain from Lifeburn is essentially offset by the reduction in everything else. Fiery Blast can easily do way more than that even on single target, and you don't have to worry about dying, it casts way faster and it's on a shorter reuse. Even a double cast Bloodcoil with temps up can do more than 10 mil DPS. So it should probably be doing at least 2X more than it does now, or give it a curve so that it isn't overpowered with bad gear and gets exponentially better with more HP (better gear). 2) Change the way it works: A) Make it a toggle-able DOT ability. You put it on a target until you cancel it, and It basically drains your health at a manageable rate (like Lich/Bloodpact) and does a decent amount of damage per tick to the target. Thus, the longer the fight, the more damage it can accumulate. B) Give it its own death save. If you die while it is active, the ability cancels and you are given a % heal. 3) Let our %HP stats help our pet. At least then Soulburn will get a boost too if we focus on our HP. As for the swarm pets, I'm not too sure how they compare to conjurors. Undead Horde does pretty good damage, but the recast is ridiculous. It definitely should be lowered or at least give the chance to reset it with blighted horde as was mentioned. And why doesn't Vampirism damage double attack?
I didn't have an ideal setup tonight from mia's, and ended up with a dirge instead of a troub. Anyways, you get the idea of how Lifeburn's damage compares to other abilities. My thoughts: Lifeburn 1. Easiest solution would be to change the damage points inflicted, per health point consumed. During early beta testing for stamina change(20hp per sta), Lifeburn was at 22 points of damage per health point. Which was lackluster to begin with, before the second health change went in.(30hp per sta) Then it was reduced, to the current 12 points of damage per health point, which I knew was going to scale badly without being modified by potency. I find it disappointing, that my Lifeburn damage is only a tiny bit better than raids during ToV beta.(excluding old op Finisher neck, do miss!) Increasing the damage ratio would help, but in the end would still be a band-aid to the problem. 2. This ability needs a complete overhaul in all honesty. I've asked for the duration to be cut in half for a long time. Remember the TSO days? I do...Lifeburn is too outdated between mobs clearing dets, and the increased incoming damage from ToV. Percentage based health drains were seriously over-looked for multiple classes this expansion, which exacerbates the problem further. I say let Lifeburn be modified by potency again, but at a reduced rate. Undead Horde Reduce the recast timer to two minutes. or Increase the damage output while maintaining same reuse timer. Prestige tree: Rotting Flesh This needs looking at in my opinion. The extra tick damage is miniscule, and not scaling well as it should. Please take a look at this and post your feedback. Enchanted Vigor / Vigor Honestly, why should this still modify health cost, especially in this expansion. Been a thorn in my side since Drunder days, but I will bring it up again anyways. edit *more to come when not falling asleep*
