Let's Talk About Mimic

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Illura, Apr 28, 2016.

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  1. Illura New Member

    What do other enchanters think about mimic? I ask this because this mechanism is just eating at me more and more.

    Okay, so first I admit that mimicry can be a lot of fun for enchanters. What enchanter doesn't like to top the heroic or raid parse in certain circumstances? Good coordination of mimicry can be...shall we say, overpowered? What concerns me is that mimic is such a large part of our personal dps, and that this dps really isn't really much about us, but rather the dps generating the big hits. I mean, sure you hit your mimicry macro, but even a trained monkey can do that. I am more interested in generating my own dps, and not relying upon someone else so heavily. I'm not sure about other enchanters, but mimicry can easily be 50% of my dps on named fights where the script allows us to go full bore. Again, this percentage is largely based upon what your partner does, and considerably less about what you are doing.

    Personally, I would like some sort of change which lowers the significance of mimicry. I know, I know...suggesting a nerf to anything is blasphemy, but I think it's for the good of the class. With a changed mimicry, of course, enchanters are going to need adjustments in other areas to make them competitive with the other utility classes.

    What do other people think? Are you happy with the situation as it stands now? I would like to hear your thoughts.

    Rubyfire and -Soteria- like this.
  2. Scrappyz Well-Known Member

    First off I'd like to say that I do enjoy mimic very much. It allows me to talk smack to the rest of raid when I'm number 1 or 2 on the parse. However, with that being said that only happens when it's timed correctly with the right class. Which requires coordinating with your raidmates on having macros and tells to let us know when said person is going through their big dps chain.. which for some seems to be a pain(I don't know why).

    At the end of the day, you do have to remember that we are still considered utility and we're not supposed to be doing big numbers. Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't get the most out of our class, don't take that statement the wrong way please. What I'm saying is, we are not supposed to be the ones doing 150-200mil dps by ourselves like BLs,Sins,Swashys can (If those number seem low, please excuse me and don't jump on my case. It's just a pure example). We as enchanters are supposed to be the ones helping those classes get to those numbers.

    I don't think it needs much of a change as I find it very helpful and useful. I do wish more people would coordinate with me on it though.
  3. Lea Plath Active Member

    I think they have moved too far away from rewarding the core part of the class.

    Enchanters should be stacking proc like effects that trigger when the mob takes damage. They should be rewarding clever management of that more with stuff like the chance for those abilities to reset big hitters. If Mimic was still a big source of DPS, but had a longer recast with a reset chance tied to another class defining ability, I would like that. Or require it be done on a character with peaceful link or something.
    Neiloch and Dolphinsgal like this.
  4. Dolphinsgal Active Member

    I have issues with mimic as it seems rare that I can coordinate mimic with the right class at the right time. That could just be me not clicking it right or be on the right target but I tend to not use mimic often. If we had more spells like time warp (I think it is) I'd love it, I use it as often as the recast time lets me, but I also know that's not likely to happen. I can't complain too much about my dps as I can usually solo most solo/as instances, I wouldn't complain about more dps though. Or more buff/debuff options something to be more of a help to the group/raid.
    On a side note which classes are best for mimic to be used with?
  5. Ilyriel-Jentara Active Member

    Really the only reason the numbers are so high is because our fervor affects it
    Kraeref, -Soteria- and Neiloch like this.
  6. Yards Well-Known Member

    Mimic on beastlord is broken, it does more damage then the beastlord does.
  7. Skulls Member

    ^^^^^ Definitely broken when using a beastlord as target, in addition the Illy relic class cloak prismatic shock is also broken when using the beastlord as target the prismatic shock triggers its damage anywhere from 10 to 15 times per second every second of the fight. This is why the Illy cloak does 55 to 60 million dps alone on single target fights, even more on encounter and AoE fights, completely broken. Looks like the beastlords pet is making the mimic and cloak prismatic shock get extra triggers making it trigger way too often.
  8. Marq Member

    Seen that same happen, its not just with BLs, just any chanter that has a group with fervor procs and has heartbound. Fervor gets applied on top of the mimics leeched damage, so it actually hits for more then the mimic target. Works with wiz and assy too.

    Same as VC gets fervor applied on the triggers. They both double dip into the stat from using the caster persons fervor (over RO for bards or mimics target for chant) and then using the fervor again for the application (mimics hits for chanter and VC triggers using the triggering persons fervor)

    Cant see anything weird with BL pet tho, tested it with my cloaked illu and friends BL and the pet doesnt proc it at all. Altho it might be some condition or setup thing on bigger scale.
    Neiloch likes this.
  9. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    I always liked mimicry at its base design, but the fact it 'double dips' fervor by mimicking the targets DPS (which is boosted by the targets own fervor) and then the mimicry itself getting boosted by the enchanters fervor is a bit much.

    I don't think it would be feasible to remove the targets fervor from the damage, so mimicry shouldn't be taking in the enchanters fervor as part of its calculation.

    Yeah, The fact an enchanter can beat the parse of the person they are mimicking really doesn't make sense. Also kind of crazy to be second on the parse to an enchanter because they mimicked someone that did less DPS than me.
  10. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    When one spell is so much of your dps, and the skill involved with it is pressing a button when someone tells you too, is wrong IMO.

    Does it need nerfing? Yes probably, but it needs to be done in a way that the chanters gain something back. Perhaps one solution may be to have it monitor group dps rather than single target, and at least then there is more needed in terms of coordination and stuff. The damage would need toning accordingly too.

    Failing that, tone it right back in damage and give chanters some more utility buff love instead.
    Gnomad_Madgon likes this.
  11. Flamace Active Member

    Right, but nobody has a problem with VC's making up +50% of a groups parse. I'm not saying enchanters are not in a good spot, cause they are but the whole game is headed that way. I mean, T1 dps breaking 1 billion is pretty crazy, given where it was a single expansion ago in AOM.
  12. Yards Well-Known Member

    Last night I saw mimic itself do over 600 million dps per illy on multiple bosses, can you really say that is working as intended?
  13. Azian Well-Known Member

    Perhaps a combination of what Errror said and the VC comparison Flamace made. Leave the mimic target single, but spread the damage out to the enchanters group members like a VC. Obviously, it would have to be a reduced percentage that each group member was getting but would surely be a nice bit of utility.
  14. Yards Well-Known Member

    Both vc and mimic should not be affected by fervor, Currently for vc you can charge it when the bow procs giving you an extra 100 fervor for the charge and then use vc when the bow procs again getting an extra 100 fervor on the charged vc. Same applies to mimic it takes the fervor raised dmg from mimic target and gives it to the illy but is further raised by the illy's fervor. And as I stated before it is completely broken when the mimic target is a beastlord, for some reason it does exponentially more damage than the beastlord does.
  15. Flamace Active Member

    I agree, it is absurd, when a raid mobs health drops 20-50% chunks in current content because enchanters cast mimicry.

    Not a bad idea, I'd welcome that change as an enchanter.
  16. Lea Plath Active Member

    So. This is how I understand enchanters/coercers to be ideally.

    They are meant to stand close enough to melee. They have spells that arent affected by doublecast that are meant to provide bursts of damage by having the group proc all the triggers in a few seconds. They are meant to provide power and control effects to the group, allowing them to pick and choose what mobs to fight in what order, letting them control the pace of battle. They are a force multiplier with various effects, including their illusionary double acting as a stupid player. They rely on the group to take advantage of the effects they provide and windows of damage.

    So...meleeing is meh when Spell Weapons exist, doing more DPS while letting you cast slower spells without worrying about timing, and the DPS buffs from the trees don't effect spell weapons. The procs have lost utility and power because doublecast is so easy to get. Power is less needed but still a thing, while control effects are basically useless. Their force multipliers in the past have become a lot less useful, as 100% doublecast is now just some extra damage for mages with Unda etc and their pet is now useless as charmed pets are guardians or die too easily, and the copy of them is too weak.

    So, honestly, here is what I would do to them.

    1) Change some of the AAs to effect spell weapons, or add BONUSES that trigger only when you are standing x distance or closer to the mob. They now have to balance these procs or boosts to damage with where they stand.

    2) Let excess doublecast covert to extra triggers of proc like effects. Or add something so when they all run out, you get a burst of doublecast damage or something.

    3) Redesign content in the future to make chanters more useful without being always needed. For example, a add that can be taken down by high damage, could also be mezzed and let the dps continue to focus fire the name. Maybe add some kind of siphon effect to mezzes too.

    4) Change the force multipliers. Time Warp, why not make it so it will recast spells cast during it. So it functions as 100% doublecast from 1-95, but in level 100 content, it acts as triple cast.

    5) Rework the pet and stats. Have it be an exact copy with upgraded AI and rotation. Make it part of the DPS again. In future, make charmed pets take on certain characteristics, or give us a method to replace its class and abilities. It would be cool if we took a random mob, made it into something to help the group or changed the damage type.
  17. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Plenty of people have a problem with how VC works but this is the Mage section and not a VC thread.
    A nice idea but given how much work it would take its closer to being a new ability outright and definitely wouldn't be coming any time soon.

    Probably best to concentrate on Mimicry not getting boosted by the enchanters fervor, for now.
    Jrel likes this.
  18. Vlkodlak Well-Known Member

    While I do not have an issue with mimicry as a whole, I do believe it has outgrown its original intention. Our raid last night saw our first mimic hit for over 2 billion using a BL mimic target and it dominates the parse as you can guess. I do think this is terribly over powered when compared to any other class for dps.

    Do I think the ability should nerfed, perhaps not. Altered yes. We have thought for a while to have mimic damage be spread out to the group like a VC would make sense. Limit mimic targets to have to be in the group with the chanter etc. I hate to see any class get nerfed, but I think a small change to the spell would go over pretty smoothly with the dev implement and users.
  19. Jrel Well-Known Member

    Should just fix the fervor issues. Anything else that causes more lag because of extra group/raid calculations, no way.
  20. Flamace Active Member

    Fair point, care to direct me to that thread?
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