Less sneaky rangers?

Discussion in 'Ranger' started by ARCHIVED-Aelfan, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. ARCHIVED-Jaremai Guest

    Aelfan wrote:
    I almost spit my coffee.
    One of my 90s is a swashie.. he pops in and out of stealth quite a bit to play with his various backstabs. Thankfully though there's enough ways for him to do so that it's not a problem and simply part of the keyboard dance that my fingers have learned to do over the years of playing him.
    Ranger stealth isn't quite as fluid, but it's still not a reason to ask for those to be de-stealthed. I explained why previously. Personal opinion.
  2. ARCHIVED-FearDiadh Guest

    Aelfan wrote:
    1. You should not have to use your stealth ability in combat because you have sneak attack which is an attack that puts you in stealth. There is also a deagro that putsyou in stealth much faster and reduces hate at the same time (the name of it escapes me atm)
    2. If you aren't killing the mob before it gets to you while you are soloing, try upgrading from those apprentice combat arts.
    3. You have 2-3 very good stuns (cheap shot, hilt strike and point blank shot) that will allow you to circle around behind the mob and 'sneak attack' + the stealthed attack of your choice before the mob can even react. I used to get by with just one stun very well before the others were added.
    4. You seem to be very determined to change basic ranger mechanics before you have even experienced a level 50+ ranger. I hate that ranger doesn't work the way you want it to, but in most games you have to learn to play your character not convince the designers to make the character work the way that it would be better for you.
  3. ARCHIVED-Aelfan Guest

    ck@Lucan DLere wrote:
    You are quite right, of course. The problem is that I have been a traditional archer for 12 years, a swordsman for longer, a martial artist for yet longer, and a student of warfare for even longer. Somehow I feel the archer should be as important a part of Norrath as it has been in the history of the Earth, as seen at Crecy, or Carrhae, or in the depictions at Medinet Habu. Clearly that is irrational.
    I must say I don't have a problem with my berserker gnome (he just hits things, as one would expect), or even the magical classes I have tried (in which I would include SK and pally). I don't even have a problem with my sneaky ratonga ranger (he's a rat, it's a part of who he is). But my bold, noble, and upstanding gnome archer I would like to never see invisible, and never see stab someone in the back. Silly, I know.
    My one justification for it, apart from the support that I have seen from others, is that it would actually make the ranger more distinct from the other scouts. I still also feel that it is an injustice that the devious swashie can use the master strike after shooting someone!
  4. ARCHIVED-FearDiadh Guest

    How would a sniper fit into that idea? Are they supposed to be seen? What about a deer hunter? Should they let the game see them before they shoot it? What about a special ops type ranger? Instead of sneaking into enemy territory and taking out a target, they could just walk up and point a bow at the enemy camp.
    Not being seen fits with a lot of different versions of a ranger. Being a long bow man on a castle wall only fits yours I think.
  5. ARCHIVED-cawalton Guest

    I like the idea of a "less sneaky ranger", I only solo, have never grouped, and have never used the behind/side attacks and never bother to upgrade those CAs. I've had a blast using all the other CAs, ranged/melee, and don't think I've been held back at all, at any level, but I've always wished a few more could be used straight-on. By the time you reach 90/250 100% crit/multi there's really no time left to use every CA since the mobs go down quickly enough as it is.
  6. ARCHIVED-Ranja Guest

    Jaremai@Guk wrote:
    hmmmmm afraid to say i never heard of this skill. Is this a ranger CA?
  7. ARCHIVED-EQ2Magroo Guest

    Never thought (or dared to hope) I would find myself saying this...but at the moment Rangers are pretty much spot on*
    As Ranja has said though, as a class it doesn't come into its own until at least level 50 I would say. Once you get the extra snares and maybe Raincaller, it transforms into an almost totally ranged class.
    I don't even think about "sneaking" when attacking and there are only 2 ranger stealth attacks you use with any frequency. With PFT you actually remove all the stealth requirements from these skills anyway.
    It's really not a big deal.
    *the obvious exception being hardcore end-game raiding where they are still lacking DPS or any real reason to have a Ranger in the raid, but for the other 90% of the population the Ranger class works brilliantly.
  8. ARCHIVED-Hisvet Guest

    Class concept is a tricky thing in a game that has that "rpg" on the end. My rpg definitely isn't a lot of other people's rpgs and thats why your view of a ranger is going to be different. You should respect that.
    Changing class mechanics is not tied to our individual concepts of that "rpg". You are talking about a game defining archetype that Sony put in, the flavor of which is supposedly grounded with npc examples and in-game lore but left generic enough for you to be able to "rp" with should you desire to do so.
    My ratonga scout was created nov 12, 2004 I'm sure other scouts here are from then too. Had a lot of rp'ing with it, had a lot of different concepts for rangers, but when I come to THESE forums its about class mechanics and balance, i.e. do things WORK in game, are we balanced for combat in the way the developers told us we should be? Are rangers appreciated. Why the h**** are we the only class that pays to even do their dps and we can't even get some bennie for it? Are we doing T1 damage comparable to other T1 damage producers? That sort of thing.
    Although its going out on a limb I can probably argue convincingly if the longbowman at Crecy or Agincourt or Poitiers *COULD* have invis'ed and been safer to do so they would have, esp seeing how they weren't beholden to the code of chivalry themselves anyway. And I can guarantee the Romans would have, they both tried to "hide" their archers whenever they could. Archers were not seen as noble, just necessary in those contexts. Real war is about winning and making the other b**** die for his country. And that is a more valid/realistic take on archery (excusing fantastic elements for logical choices) than your noble gnome. (logical argument for class changes only, I'm sure your rp is as valid as anyone else's.)
    It does get annoying for someone who hasn't maxed out ranger to ask for radical changes though. Because justifications for your rp concept CAN be reinforced with 250 AAs and 90 levels of experience. As others above have stated. You don't want to be sneaky then *Don't* put AAs in stealthed abilities for your gnome. Don't upgrade the abilities, don't use them in game. Go ahead and invest in that hook arrow and overland run speed and hunter's pet and non stealth multishot abilities. Go Stamina line, avoid int or wisdom. Get that final ability in the Predator tree so you can do normally stealthed abilities WITHOUT STEALTHING. Have at. You will have created an archer whose strengths are not in stealthing, who shoots many arrows fast and doesn't get much from backstabbing. Truly.
    But do not expect to be on par with a scout who uses what are arguably real world strategic advantages (like ambushing, stealth, suprise, non-chivalric sneak attacks) to get ahead, which is what you'll find in grouping/raiding/ min-maxing dps oriented other rangers. You have chosen a harder moral rp route, you will have to sacrifice for it. Maybe the angst will make a better story. You could also take something like a Swashbuckler or a Troubador and just call yourself an archer. They can use bows. Their abilities will be more forthright dps, and maybe fit your concept better.
    Its a fantasy game. Take responsibility for your own fantasy and don't expect SOE to always be the one trying to prop up your fantasy when they've already given you race, class and world and optional AA lines to express yourself in.
  9. ARCHIVED-Justaman Guest

    Jaremai@Guk wrote:
    Why? They hang out with the Brigand devs all the time.
  10. ARCHIVED-GussJr Guest

    I skimmed the thread and didn't find this mentioned anywhere...but just fyi, once you get to your end-line AA we have the ability to turn off stealth.
    edit: woops, Hisvet already said it!
  11. ARCHIVED-beezel69 Guest

    Yes that is the reason I deleted my Ranger also, I loved his other moves but the idea of a Ranger having to use the moves of a Rouge is plain silly and too much trouble to execute. My son spends over 3min trying to kill something just because he doesn't want to have to go into stealth with every move, also it's not like a Ranger to sneak up on everything and Stab it in the back....
  12. ARCHIVED-GussJr Guest

    Granted it feels slow being a ranger at low levels, but now I have so much fun with my level 90!
  13. ARCHIVED-Seiffil Guest

    beezel69 wrote:
    That has to be at a low level then. View it this way, if you're just learning to use a bow, you're not as proficient and have fewer tricks or skills that you can do with your bow, as you level more you abilities get more powerful and you learn newer things you can do.
    I originally played a ranger at release, from 1-9, all scouts were identical. From 10-19, all predators were identical, so your assassin and ranger would play the exact same way. At 20 is when everything started splitting off and you gain more and more abilities that separate the two classes. Since then, things have changed to some degree, but the comparisons are still there at lower levels. The classes start growing farther apart as they level up though.
    BTW, it bothers me whenever someone uses Rouge. Rouge is makeup, Rogue is the word you're looking for.
  14. ARCHIVED-Ranja Guest

    beezel69 wrote:
    Gave up pretty quick did ya:). Looks like your son is low level as well.

    At higher levels, this is what a ranger does to solo mobs.
    Click autoattack, loot.


    Never have to use stealth, never have to use melee. I cannot remember the last time I used stealth fighting solo mobs with my ranger. Get into your 30s adn then come back here and comment:)

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