Kunark Swashy Feedback

Discussion in 'Scouts' started by ZUES, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. ZUES Well-Known Member

    Swash feedback since the Kunark launch changes:

    The changes made to the swash were great. Raid forces are now seeing the swash as a desirable class and we're seeing a lot more swashies as a result. Thank you for that!

    But it's still a little low on the parse and has room for improvement.
    • AOE needs to go up by another flat 30 - 35% or 75% if you intend on it being the best AOE scout.
    • Single target DPS by at least 100% on long single target fights. Burst damage is good as-is on short single target fights. It's the long fights that hurt. It needs a serious increase in single target just to catch it up with other non-bard scouts. At 100% it would still be well behind Assassins and Beastlords and just about right on par with Brigands.
    Other than that I think swashies are in pretty good shape (myth buff is still horrible and needs immediate attention). Love the change you made to the hate transfer too Caith. Thanks. Overall it's a great class now. But it really needs a defining DPS overhaul. If it's supposed to be known as a DPS class please make it so. It is after all the role we have to fill in raids. You forced us to spec right side for the combat mit debuff. That put a serious hurt on our AOE potential (left side). And the single target DPS is one of the lowest (of all classes, not just scouts) in the game.
    Seryndipity likes this.
  2. Konc3pt Active Member

    maybe it's a player related issue and the class is just fine?
  3. ZUES Well-Known Member

    Maybe you should stick to the fighter forums since you don't play any of the classes you have been trolling the threads on.
    Snikkety, Galthier and Tharrakor like this.
  4. Vogie Active Member

    Swashies are in a fantastic spot right now and after today's patch you'll get stronger by Predators/BL's getting weaker. Reset rune has always been a meh item for the Swash, sure you'll lose some dps from the reset but nothing like the others mentioned above.

    At this point I don't think you need the increases stated, let's play this one out and talk in a few weeks.
    Tharrakor likes this.
  5. Konc3pt Active Member


    i wasn't trolling you.

    but maybe now you can do more dps than my zerker since i'm afk on like every raid encounter.
    Yards likes this.
  6. Redlight Well-Known Member

    Swashies were promised a little love before KA and it didnt amount to much at all in reality, single target abilities need a good 40% increase and AoE abilities atleast 20%, this will still leave a gap behind Brigands but it would be a conservative starting point, Gnoma
    ZUES likes this.
  7. Ykysh New Member

    Swash have best dagger storm and shadow pet in game, which repeats 75% of swashy damage exclude fervor, as example assasin's shadow repeats only 25% damage of his CA's. After this patch all scouts losed like 25% of their dagger storm dps and lost abilitiy to have 100% uptime of their shadows. And this change hurts swashes more then other scouts.
    Seryndipity likes this.
  8. Seryndipity Active Member

    I have to agree with Zues. Yes, I am very pleased to see our class once again become important to the raid force. Our debuffs are almost critical but the longer the fight goes on with a single target, our DPS drops lower on the parse. I've known for some time as most swashies who know their class shorter single target fights we can rock but this not do us well for those swashies that raid. I know I was right up there with the ToT expansion in great DPS but when KA was released, it all went down the toilet. Getting better gear and reforging for as much potency as I can get made a difference but not nearly enough. I'm not one of those classes who facerolls across the keyboard; I've been playing this class on my second account since 2011. Please help us out with some needed changes as Zues noted. Thanks for reading.
    ZUES likes this.
  9. ZUES Well-Known Member

    You've beat me on the parse like one time on the zerker. Ever. And that was a heroic. Partially because you log in to raid and then log out (or stand around the guild hall and go afk). I have not ran a group with you since the third week of Kunark because you never wanted to run groups. Our current zerker actually toggles offensive > defensive > greenmist > iksar hero and other stuff while in combat. You should try that. It will help your parse. So anyway he does outparse me on big AoE fights from time to time. But he knows how to play the zerker, and he's not fat and lazy just sitting there in defensive stance and waiting for a mob to hit him for a target. I can PM you his name if you'd like to maybe talk to him and get some tips.

    That's true, our dagger storm is fantastic. The problem is that once you throw DS and Seafury Thrust down range we are out of good single target DPS. That's why I said short burst DPS is good. Progressively, over the duration of a raid single target fight (most of the expansion) we drop further down the parse the longer it lasts.

    My feedback comes from many sources. We run two swashies in our raid and I group with two others all the time. We all have between 20-30 deity points in potency and have almost identical gear. Only 2 of us have all the ethereal runes (I have none but have compensated for that in my feedback). This is feedback based on everything between beta testing and all live content up to T4 raid mobs. 3 months worth of gameplay or so. I play the swash a LOT. Enough to have an opinion.
  10. Azian Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately Zues, it's kind of tough to take you seriously when you start with the premise that swashies need as much as a 75% AE increase and a full 100% single target increase. If you are doing 50% of what your brig is doing then there is either A) a substantial gear/buff/stat discrepancy or, B) a substantial skill discrepancy as the classes are not that far apart when equally geared and played.

    Yesterday's changes will still need more time to really assess but my snapshot analysis is that it really hurt the preds and BLs the most (by far) which in effect compressed the entire field of the dps classes into a tighter bunch with both rogues being significantly less hurt by the nerf. Even prior to yesterday though, our swash has been very strong and right in the thick of things with pretty much everyone other than assassins and BLs. Naturally, he was up higher on AE encounters but still competitive in both scenarios.
    Vogie likes this.
  11. ZUES Well-Known Member

    I said "flat" increase and I said 30% AOE. 75% would be needed to catch up to Assassins and Beastlords. I don't have enough data in Kunark to comment on rangers and where they currently stand on the parse. When I was raiding with a ranger I had a serious gear advantage, so I can't comment on their current AOE parse.

    But swash single target DPS is worse than every scout in the game. Double swashies current outbound single target DPS is what's needed to make them competitive on a long single target fight. That's what I said and that's what I meant. I waited this long to in the expansion to comment due to seeing the bigger picture when everyone was equally geared.

    Yesterdays changes are irrelevant to me. If an item gets nerfed that effects every scout. This discussion is about raw DPS and has nothing what so ever to do with ethereal runes. To suggest that swashies are in a better place now because ethereal runes were nerfed a little bit and hurt "X" class is laughable.
  12. Yards Well-Known Member

    We need to compare parses from Zues vs Konc3pt vs other zerker to see who parses higher cuz I'm curious now.
    Veta and Errrorr like this.
  13. ZUES Well-Known Member

    I'm not longer in Rev. The truth is Rated and I don't like each other. He's not that bad on the zerker but I can never pass up a chance to poke at him. And no, I would never share Revs parses. Even if I did I left them at a time that people were still gearing up. So the parse wouldn't be an accurate representation of where any classes currently stand. They had me jump on my swash the night before the expansion launched. I didn't raid the swash at all in ToT so started with a serious gear disadvantage. I caught up fairly quick and grinded like 24/7 until I was in the top 5 on the parse. But I blew past people and got really lucky with gear. So again, any parse from Rev (with me in it) would not be accurate on the current state of the swash or zerker.
  14. Yards Well-Known Member

    I was talking about comparing parses of current stuff. And I am in revelations and you were not in the top 5 ever, you very seldom outparsed the furies or tanks. I'm not trying to troll you or be mean just trying to be truthful.
    Yoube likes this.
  15. ZUES Well-Known Member

    Ofcoarse. :rolleyes:
  16. Mark John Member


    The dust has somewhat settled for Kunark Ascending, and for top 10-15 guilds the verdict is clear: Swashes do not even deserve to be in the raid. With the worst single target DPS and utility that is not missed, they are in terrible shape. The killer is that the Epic 2.0 basically buried the class by being so insignificant. While Swashes lacked DPS, the epic exacerbated the issue significantly.and offer no help for a class that was already lagging behind.

    The 'utility' that a Swash provides is not measurable within the context of a raid or parse, and does not make up for the lack of dps. That is why they do not have representation in top guilds. I do not wish to necessarily advocate for the class or debate merits (because I perceive it to be pointless); rather I am switching mains and will simply not play one (in raid).
  17. Redlight Well-Known Member

    I must say it was very dissapointing that there wasn't more attention towards Swashy DPS improvement that was hinted at pre KA, I am sure an increase in Precision striking % as an interim would not be hard to implement but that would be a start while the development team work on other issues, I am not asking for the stars just want to see a few twinkle! Gnoma'
  18. Lyricus Member

    I have seen a few swashies maintain a fairly respectable parse, but it is so rare that it can't be expected. My biggest beef is that we were led to believe that swashies would be a big part of debuffing combat mit, but that has gone the same way as fervor - a drop in the bucket.
  19. Nero Active Member

    I dont know... maybe the rest of our DPS sucks, but the 2 swashys we have in raid do decently well. No they are not top 5, but they do well.

    Also, from a utility standpoint, I, as a tank, would certainly miss their hate transfer. I know i definitely notice it when they are not in raid.
    Prissetta likes this.
  20. Revanu Well-Known Member

    Swash was hinted at being somewhat desired because of the ability doublecast temp, however, since it was established that it is combat art only, it became useless.