Kander's Candor: Rum Cellar and Beyond

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Kander, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. Bashem Well-Known Member

    EVERYONE can afford the 15 dollar DLC even me that not the problem its why should I need to pay for content that should have been part of my AoM added content especially when the dev admit that AoM was weak on the content that the DLC provides.

    If you want to charge the FTP players for the pack got for it!
  2. Lysia Active Member

    I have a husband and kids that come first --- the "small charge" of 15 $ can be better used for my children; and then there's Christmas, birthdays. etc --- that is where the 15$ can go also ...
    and it will --
    Still subscription folks, the thing still should be free for you; or at least 1/2 price -- YOU already pay their bills ....
    Bashem likes this.
  3. Silkmyst Active Member

    /Agree with Sojuc, I'll also be buying the Rum Cellar Campaign. The twitch video
    was great. :) The $15.00, the packaging or unpack-aging of AOM, not worth the bean counting
    drama, IMO. And no, I'm not independently wealthy, but can occasionally afford 2
    movie tickets? This costs less, and will last a lot longer than 2 hours.

    Really, it's about fun. I've been with EQ1 and then EQ2 since a few months after EQ1's
    release. The Collector's edition sometimes seemed a little steep in cost, but I bought it
    and was never sorry.

    I've never really felt ripped off, only worried lately about the future of my favorite game,
    the one I always come back to. Any way I can support it, I plan to do so.

    Also, as far as Rum Cellar goes,
    I'm super excited about being able to get blue shards for tier 1 heroic armor, from solo zones,
    as I don't have time to group much or raid. (Agree with a previous poster about the woes of
    raiding). I enjoyed raiding, but don't have 3 to 4 hours to sit at the comp in one session anymore.

    PUG's make me nervous, like I need RUM just to join one. So, the ability to upgrade my armor
    to tier one heroic with Rum Cellar, it's a HUGE big deal to me and, well...thanks so much Devs!!

    Silk
    Prissetta, suka, Moonpanther and 4 others like this.
  4. Borke New Member

    My wife and I love the game, we save hard each year to buy the expansion. We budget carefully so we can both afford the monthly subs. We don't mind paying a reasonable amount to play the game, but cutting the annual expansion and replacing it with a quarterly campaign at $15 almost doubles the cost of the updates, putting the game out of our reach.
    Bashem and suka like this.
  5. Griff Well-Known Member

    We have several subscriptions in our family and we also bought AoM, two of those copies were collector editions. I'm sorry, but I just don't grasp how Daybreak should be picking up the tab for the campaign because people purchased AoM from Sony, not Daybreak, expecting that they would be getting free content in the future.

    I also appreciate that many are concerned about their budget, just as we are. Then again, that's one of the appeals of online gaming, which still offers a great value for the amount of entertainment provided. I guess I'm also failing to grasp how defraying those costs throughout the year is more of a strain than laying out funds for a full expansion for each account all at one time.

    Then there is the issue that under normal circumstances many have to wait for almost a year for an expansion that *should* release a bulk of content making the game fresh again to play for many players. I far rather have campaigns that breath life into the game on a regular basis for less of a bulk investment.

    I guess I view my leisure time as being worth something to me. If the campaign is not worth $15, then it's not going to be worth my time, even if it were free.
  6. Alenna Well-Known Member

    no Griff we purchased Aom from Sony Online Entertainment now renamed Daybreak Games who were answering to Sony. we did not buy it from Sony we bought it from the same company that now answers to Columbus Nova. Same company Different name different entity to answer to.

    I'll leave the rest of your post for others to answer as I'm still trying to figure out how I feel having to pay for DLC that used to come with the expansion as updates that spread out the content during the year at no cost since it was part of the expansion price till the next expansion hits.
    Lodrelhai and Bashem like this.
  7. Griff Well-Known Member

    On your first point, Sony was the parent company of SoE, so yes, we purchased AoM from a different owner. What your suggesting is that were you to purchase a Taxi service as business, then renamed the business, so as to distinguish the new ownership, you would still be obligated to make amends for what customers felt was a shortcoming with the previous owners? I'm fairly certain that most people investing their funds to acquire an existing business would not feel so inclined to do so at their expense. Especially if they explained their new plans for service going forward that represented a change over from the old service plan.

    On the second point, they announced that expansions as we know them are a thing of the past. They are now campaigns that will release content in segments and priced less than the complete expansions we were accustomed to. What you are suggesting is that they absorb the cost of this campaign. This, to make amends for AoM, which they were not a part of releasing. Then operate with less funds now, only to release the next campaign, in the fall, for less than the cost of a full expansion, since it will have less content? That seems like a hard sell.

    Sure, like anyone else, I would love to see the new campaign be provided at no charge. I just don't see that being advantageous in the long run if we really want to see the game go forward. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Daybreak to ask for funding from Columbus Nova to provide free content to make amends for an expansion that they did not release. Especially when it's been announced that expansions are no longer being released in favor of campaigns.
    Prissetta, suka, Moonpanther and 2 others like this.
  8. Breta Well-Known Member

    Honestly I could care less paying extra bucks for new content. The problem I have with this DLC is amount of content we are getting for our money, seriously 1 heroic, 1 raid (nobody cares about solo) for 15 bucks? Money vs number of hours me having fun ratio seems to be very low. Well that is unless you turn it into a tedious grind, which decrease the ratio even lower.
  9. Tetrol Well-Known Member

    My problem is not how much it costs - but rather the fact it is so focused on lvl 100 play. Just looked at my guild roster, currently on line - 6 players, not one of them lvl 100. (admittedly, one is 99). I personally don't play my level 100's much - and therefore, for the first time since I started (with DoF release) there is actually no incentive at all to even consider buying a content "expansion" (no matter what it is called) - another one just logged in - still no 100's.
    suka, Kittybock and Lodrelhai like this.
  10. Dilligax Member

    @ Breta , speak for yourself , you just might be suprised how many care for SOLO's .. now with that being said here is the bottom line i have with the subject.. I dont mind paying for something if i feel im getting my moneys worth ie with all the zoning issues , getting kicked off game should the powers to be add more potential problems to the fire before putting out some of the current flames, i dont think so but then thats the way EQ has gone since it started , lets add more content to take away from the problems we have .. it does my heart good to hear some of the almighty "raiders" having issues with playing maybe something will get fixed i doubt it but anyways -- Dilligad - freeport
    suka, Moonpanther and NrthnStar5 like this.
  11. Bashem Well-Known Member

    The way end game stats are so much higher than rest of game I see we have 2 games now those below 90 playing with the old stats and mobs and 90-100 playing with much needed higher stats to kill a lot harder mobs in general.

    And about the new DLC it a high level pack as it caters to where most have at least on 90+ toon they play.
    I dont see game going back to add low level content to level a new toon or race as we had in the past if for no other reason the lack or resources to do that and we will just get 90+ content.
  12. Ratza Well-Known Member

    This is supposed to be new content aimed for the casual player .... because let's face it...much of AoM wasn't/isn't casual player friendly.....so IMO this content should have been offered free to anyone who purchased AoM. /just saying

    With that said....I'll bite...I'll buy....I'm not happy about the price of it but will reserve judgment until I see it for myself...if it fails to deliver then there's a good chance I'll not pay for anymore mini campaigns going forward.
  13. DTSGOD Member

    Ok so Griff keeps saying new campaign...Another person said they like DLC over big xpacs...I'll explain further to counter these two separate pov.
    1. It's not a separate campaign Griff.We pay for it through our subscriptions.We're not getting anything for free. The Xpac which usually takes sometime to complete though usually no where near a full calendar year. These mini updates are done for the players so they don't play the game for 6 months then due to lack of content go on to other games and not come back. It's in their best interest to keep their customers paying for their subscriptions.They only accomplish this by challenging us and making the game as fun as possible.
    2. DLC v Xpac The reason you want xpacs as opposed to DLCs only or a combination of the two is that you will begin to have more and more disparity in the game. Stratifying your players by such a large margin over time that you won't be able to group much less raid.If for instance you had 6 DLCs. P1 no DLCsP2 2 DLCS P3 All DLCS P4 1 DLC P5 5 DLCS P6 No DLCS =
    The chance of these 6 players being able to play any of the DLC zones is remote at best, much less being effective in those DLCS.
    Kraeref likes this.
  14. Griff Well-Known Member


    First off, I don't recall expansions coming out several times a year, perhaps you could point out when they did. Based on their history of releases ( http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Expansions_and_Adventure_Packs ) I would say that they did not come out more often.

    The mini updates that kept the players going, as you mention, will now be campaigns doing the same thing. The difference being that there are no longer expansions, so campaigns will be providing that content as well as supplementary income for content development as the expansions did in the past.

    In your second statement you are attempting to tell us that raiders, as well as the general population, who previously bought expansions for content, will forgo future content. In other words, their accustomed to waiting until the fall, the typical release of an expansion, so they will make due without the content because it's now in campaign packs. I seriously doubt that to be the case, especially for those who raid or enjoy doing heroic content.

    Part of the issue seems to be related to what the customer perceives to be included in their purchases.
    1. A subscription gives you all the perks of All Access, nothing more, nothing less. That does not include future content *unless* they state that it will. All Access still requires the purchase of content for full access up to the latest released expansion.
    2. An expansion gives you access to what's included in that expansion package. If you purchase AoM, you get AoM and not even the parts of the AoD feature pack. Speculating that based on the past, it will include additional content is still just an unfounded assumption. Short version, batteries are not always included, read the fine print before purchasing.
    That said, it almost feels like many of the doomsayers somehow feel that the company has no clue as to how players, in general, feel about their online gaming. I'm fairly certain that they are aware of how many hours most players play a game over the course of time. I'm also certain that they know, as we know, that online gaming is a relatively inexpensive form of entertainment.

    They also have the advantage of knowing what players are spending in the SC store and what perks, add on's and the like have sold well. No one would spend $90 on the CE edition, right? (We have two copies in the family). I would venture to go as far as saying that the majority of players that fit into the level range of the campaign are more likely than not to simply accept it as $15 for additional content. $15 When spread over the hours of playing that content, will seem quite reasonable. If not, they can simply pass it buy and save $15 this time around.

    You can't have it two ways stating that raiders and those that enjoy heroic group content will desire it, but it will exclude players in that group that feel that it's not worth $15.00 or less. I say it again, if it's not worth $15 to purchase; then it's not worth your free time to utilize that content, even if it were free.
  15. alvane Member

    Thank you Kander and WIndstalker for giving players information about Daybreak Gaming Company's new direction. I can understand with a much smaller staff of how difficult it would be for you to handle costly annual expansions plus additional "free" content and features throughout that year.

    After all, you are in the business of making money while providing entertainment. If you don't provide "dividends" to your investors, Columbus Nova, you would find your studio on the market. Such is the way of business.

    Now, I'll let you know, how your announcements of your new chapters will affect me as a player. The new chapter, "Rum Cellar" does not affect me at all. IOW, there is absolutely nothing in that chapter that allows any of my 7 characters (most are in adventure levels of the 60s) the ability to play within the sand box. Why? None of my characters are at the adventure level required to play Rum Cellar.

    It would have been nice to have the ability to easily change individual AAs instead of redoing the entire tree each time. However, it just isn't really worth buying since I consider it more of an update or correction of poorly designed original AA trees than it is a honest feature. Mercenary usage is a feature. Tradeskill Apprentices are features. Build a dungeon is a feature. A new class or race is a feature.

    At least with "Altar of Malice", I can play in this chapter doing the tradeskill timelines and quests. There are even quests offering the token of the month club - the Ferrin. I wish I could do them, but alas, I am unable to handle the time clock of these quests.

    It will be many many moons before I have a character at level 100 to slowly adventure in "Altar of Malice" as well as other chapters for that adventure level. I also have a character who is part of a group in which we play at level. After 5 years, the group is now just turning 92. Our goals are currently to complete Skyshrine and Drunder. Althrough Drunder is at level 90, our group made a conscious decision to level up to 92 since we could not attract players who wish to clear all dungeons of Norrath and tackle major quest lines (HQ, Signature, Lore). Although we fill in the gaps with mercenaries, they are not players.

    I do know that only one in our group will buy "Rum Cellar" when it is released. The rest of us won't because we simply cannot play in it. There is nothing for any of us. I figure, between completing Skyshrine timeline, Drunder, then move onto Cobalt Scar, and onward, it will take us probably about 2-3 years to reach 100. After all, we only play once a week for 2 hours.

    And no, we will not level up to 100, then chronomagic down. It just isn't the same, no matter how you spell it out.

    So, I'm sorry, but if Daybreak prefers to concentrate on players who are at cap, you will leave us behind. I know, I have played EQ2 since 2006.

    I wish you well and hope you have the earnings you are wanting for your parent company, Columbia Nova. It looks like some players and you are moving in two different directions. :(
    suka likes this.
  16. Kander Developer

    This isn't part of the Rum Cellar, it will be free for all subscribers the day Rum Cellar goes live. Apologies for the confusion.
    Tylia, suka, GrunEQ and 6 others like this.
  17. Wurm Well-Known Member


    It is a rat-wheel loot pinata. And anyone, who has played this game for more than a few years, should know... SOE loot pinatas get nerfed after a week or two, leaving just the wheel.

    So get on the ride on day one, or don't bother getting on at all.
  18. Bashem Well-Known Member

    So I was going to start a new thread asking about the future of the game that Daybreak is now doing with DLC and Campaigns and figure I would ask here to avoid crossing over this thread so I will ask here.

    Is this how we are doing the game updates from now on?

    Will there be overlap on buying content like we need to own XYZ DLC to get some other DLC down the road?

    How much content are you planning to release in the next year and how is it been priced?

    Will there be discounts for people that have multi accounts?

    Its hard for anyone to know if we can get excited about buying the Rum Cellar without knowing what the future holds in black and white and the only thing we know for certain is the price of the Rum Cellar which is $15-
  19. Lodrelhai Well-Known Member

    Here's how this will create the fractured player base DTSGOD mentioned.

    I am a casual adventurer and dedicated crafter. I have exactly one adventuring character of AoM level, but 10 crafters with more on the way up. I have AoM, and it was worth it to me because it has some very good crafting content. But even though the crafting content is the main benefit I got from it, I can take my one adventurer up there any time I like. If I'm harvesting and see someone asking for a dirge to fill out a heroic group, I can swap my gear and go dungeon crawl. The xpac gave me the content I am primarily interested in, but also access to stuff I only do from time to time.

    This campaign has no crafting content, and my one AoM adventurer is not lvl 100 yet. There's nothing in it for me. So I'm skipping it. And so once it goes live I'll have to watch for which zone people are PUGing to run before I decide whether to go or not. No biggie, it's just a handful of variations. But maybe next campaign will include some good crafting stuff, so I'll get that one. Then the one after won't - skip it again. Following one has content for a range of levels, enough so more of my characters can play to make it worth my while. We're at one year later and I'm missing half the content that's been added in that year. I don't even have the option to try out the stuff I don't normally do, to decide if hey, this might be worth it after all. There's a 50/50 chance that if I do decide to group up and adventure, the pug will not have the same dungeon access I do.

    Yes, the players who raid and group more intently are more likely to pick up every campaign (although I have seen players of both styles saying they will not get this one, so even in those areas the player base is fracturing already). But the demarcation between dedicated and casuals is going to get more severe. Players of different styles will no longer have the option of getting together to try something new, because the content they weren't dedicated to is no longer bundled with the content they were. And why should they pay extra to get it if they don't intend to use it?

    About the only way to control this fracturing would be to either offer all-in-one bundles of the last year's campaigns at once (basically an xpac), or to speed up the shift of new content to free content from two years to one. The fractures will still be there in the newest stuff, but it will bring the different playstyles back together more quickly.
    suka likes this.
  20. Griff Well-Known Member

    Just thought I would throw this out there for those who keep claiming that Daybreak should be throwing in the Campaign for free.

    My wife and I operate a small family run restaurant. We offer Angus Beef Gourmet Burgers, Rib-Eye Steaks and other premium products on our lunch and dinner menu. We are far less expensive than most restaurants and steak houses, yet we offer larger portions (16oz Hand Trimmed Rib-Eye $14.95). We can do that because our overhead is far smaller than most restaurants.

    We sometimes get customers that tell us that they could make the same items at home for less. Really? Do you pay for permits, hood cleaning services, as well as inspection services every few months to cook that food? Pay for a staff, taxes on your food, advertising?

    See, without knowing the operational costs of a company, it's easy to say what prices should be and what should be included in the price. Companies are not endless pits of money that they are looking to throw in simply to insure that every customer is happy with the services and prices. The better the deals they can offer, the more attractive the services/products become. There is however a point where you have to accept that you can't please everyone and still stay in business.

    The same people pleading for Campaigns to be free must be utilizing the existing content provided for that level and enjoying the game or they would not want the new Campaign. I'm assuming that means they would like to see the game continue to progress and provide bug fixes and new content in the future. Obviously that costs money and that revenue has to come from somewhere.
    suka, Naramsin, Losadunai and 2 others like this.