Kaladim T1 DPS Imbalance

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by Cryomancy, Jun 6, 2020.

  1. Cryomancy New Member

    I've been thinking of coming back for RoK but since I've been gone for a while, I have a few questions.

    Are predators still subpar compared to mages and even rogue's? Why are T2 dps classes out performing T1's? It's gone on for this long, so can I bank on that not changing?

    Will RoK bring predators back into place among the other T1's or will the expansion just further the gap that is already in place?

    If the answer is preds still suck and they are going to continue to suck, then my last question is, does Ranger getting a 5% max health debuff make them viable at all? I feel like that would be pretty decent raid utility.
  2. Cryomancy New Member

    Found my answer on discord. Preds can potentially match the dps of the other T1 classes but lack the utility those classes also bring.

    If content is being adjusted to actually be a challenge, like VP, and only the top guilds who run the optimal setups can clear that content, (MT grp, 2 mage grps, and OT group with swash/brig) then the game has no need for predators. Having to reroll and play another class that is actually needed isn't the end of the world but it's pretty damn sad having both predator "T1" dps classes be useless.

    There is always a good chance content is easy and optimal setups won't matter as much, solving the entire issue or once everyone finally reaches the harder content, preds are no longer invited.
  3. Tetley New Member

    It can probably be fixed adding a damage proc to temp buffs or giving the predators a auto attack multiplier increase or adjusting the damage output from the off. Stance proc but that would be too easy. I guess just let them rot and player be disgruntled is easiest.
  4. Zenji Well-Known Member

    The higher end raids don't bring predators because of their personal DPS potential, it is the lack of synergy they offer the group/raid.
    So if your plan is to buff Preds to do more damage than a Wizard, and the damage the Wizards provides to his group through buffs, then Preds would be severely Broken.
    If Predators were to be "fixed" it would be through giving them group synergy / utility.
  5. Sixgauge Active Member

    Would like to see what rangers can do, it's my favorite dps class. But I have no desire to play a dps class unless it can top parses, and since that changes all the time I haven't bothered with any dps classes. Can't really say how RoK is going to be, but most of the content is single target so I would kinda steer in that direction... but then that changes in TSO. And it is unlikely to be super difficult requiring a perfect raid setup, historically most content is relatively easy.
  6. Zenji Well-Known Member

    Necro & Wizard have been consistently topping the parse since T5, very unlikely for that to change in RoK.
  7. Fleshdecay Well-Known Member

    Assassin myth is pretty damn strong, 30% increased stealth attack damage, free 15% flurry, plus with them getting FFU, they might stand a chance. Ranger's on the other hand, have a meh myth in comparison and their answer to FFU is Coverage, which is not nearly on the same level.
    If assassins aren't able to top the parse by a large enough margin, then as Zenji said, might as well bring a class with similar dps that also provides utility.
    I can't imagine myth weapons and the buffs they offer ever changing. (Would be nice though for the weaker one's)
    So for Ranger's the only things I can think of reworking is the pet hawk or Coverage. They could make the hawk do something that's more beneficial to the group or raid than a lack luster hate siphon or for Coverage they could make the ability last for like 10 seconds instead of only buffing 1 stealth attack.
  8. Prasie New Member

    why have a predator that you have to build an entire group around that'll just do less dps than a wizard that you throw in a default mage group
    Dude likes this.
  9. Cryomancy New Member

    Have predators always had this issue with them being useless because their damage isn't enough to make up for their lack of utility?
    Maybe they should allow preds offensive buffs damage proc to trigger off of every CA just like rogue's. Passive damage topping the parse is fun.
  10. Naneeje Well-Known Member

    Horse poop!
    All of it!
    When you look at best playable class, if eery button was hit perfectly and every gear choice, AA was set correctly:
    Necro, Swash, Assassin, Wiz, then Warlock/Conjuror, Ranger, then Chanters/fury.
    Right now, if you know how to play an Assassin, you will be #2 behind the necro because your Assassinate does not compete with a good lifeburn.
    I'm sorry, but you keep saying top end guilds, all top end guilds have Assassins. Why? Because top end guilds take top players, so no matter what class they are playing, they are playing it really well. Which is why a top end guild fury is topping the parse on pug raids :) Come on, you know that's true!!!!
    Get good, then get better at your class and you can parse T1 as an Assassin with no issues.
    Kittik likes this.
  11. Okanagan Member


    This is just factually incorrect. As someone in the top end guild, assassins are explicitly not allowed regardless of any players skill. 'All top end guilds have assassins' is just straight up wrong.

    As already stated above, an assassin can parse well, however it requires an entire group to be built around it, and it provides nothing to the raid force except it's own personal damage. Versus sticking 3 mages in a group together, who all can parse as much or more than assassin, who all provide utility and buff each other. Collectively the raid wide damage is greater with mage groups than scout groups.
    Carynn likes this.
  12. Cryomancy New Member

    You just proved that you are not a top tier player nor are you in a top tier guild and you have no idea what you're talking about. Okanagan explains it very well.
  13. Naneeje Well-Known Member

    Clearly you are saying Kaladim doesn't have a good Assassin is what I'm hearing... because you are saying "assassins are explicitly not allowed regardless of any players skill".
    Not very motivating for a class that seems to be third overall in DPS, despite the lack of group buffs.
  14. Cryomancy New Member

    Wrong. You're just taking things personal for whatever reason. I play a predator and I personally don't mind it because I can play this class or any class to its full potential. It doesn't change the fact the preds have 0 utility and their damage is not high enough to make up for it.
  15. Zenji Well-Known Member

    I don't care how "good" the predator is. There is no class I would substitute out for a predator. The only time I would bring one is if I had an empty slot in a group that couldn't be filled by literally any other class.

    I would rather bring a Rogue who does 3k DPS than a Predator who does 15k.
  16. Naneeje Well-Known Member

    So this is pretty clear Assassins are not raiding end game Top Tier guilds. Cryomancy, you play a predator and you play it well, to it's full potential you say, so there is zero room for you in any raids?
  17. Fleshdecay Well-Known Member

    I could main a predator in raid if I chose a more casual guild that doesn't worry about a optimal raid setup. I want myth asap though.
  18. Naneeje Well-Known Member

    That's no problem Zenji, let me know when you start clearing EOF content, we will give you some pointers on how to take down mobs in EH, MMIS. Glad to help!
  19. Zenji Well-Known Member

    Who should I be sending a tell to in game for those tips?
  20. Naneeje Well-Known Member

    I thought you would like that one Zenji :)

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