Exactly Zem! Since I am nearly always either the main tank or soloing - there is simply no way I can use jokernaut. A zerker in a group and not the MT is a friggin waste IMHO - unless you got two zerkers in the group (which should be illegal). I view myslef as the nuclear core - the wicked center of the ideal high DPS group or raid. At level 70, Wiz line top skill and Sta line pegged give me about a 100% DPS boost while maintaining tank-ability. Oh yeah I can rock - I just wish that Jokernaut could play a part in my vision of death and pain. WIth the massive penalty it never will. I am not complaining because i tried to use jokernaut as a tank - I merely point out that zerkers ARE tanks and a skill you cant use while tanking is pretty much useless. If you are playing some type of non tanking dps zerker - well you might be happy with jokernaut. Don't try to tell me that tanking zerkers who are unhappy with this skill dont know how to play the class. If that is your point I assure you that you are flat wrong.
I love how these noobs come here with their insight always claiming people dont know how to play this game. This game is not rocket science. We could train a monkey to play it. I think that the people who are always claiming that others dont know how to play their class are the ones who obviously dont know how to play. Further supported by the fact that they favor Juggernaught as a CA that is useful to increase DPS. I am a tank, but I always understand that I will not always be tanking, especially on raids, so I need to be able to do something else. But this spell doesnt help us out significantly there either. the amount of increased damage from this CA is quite unimpressive. Do you think that your achieving monk/bruiser level damage or something for that 24 seconds? Cause I can tell you, your not. not even close. Message Edited by Montaigu on 04-13-2006 08:58 AM
If i had wanted to achieve Monk/Brusier damage then i would have rolled a Monk/Bruiser. Juggernaut gives Bezerkers an increase to Bezerker Damage. Why do many players complain that they don't do Monk/Bruiser damage or tank as well as a guard. Did we not pick the BEZERKER class to play? When i decided to play a Bezerker (at launch) i had no delusions i would tank like a guard or dps as well as a monk. If you don't like this class......play another. It's about time we realized that bezerkers have their own special niche in this game.
I don't think he was serious about the Monk/Brusier thing, just more like "Do you think Juggernaught will give you that?" because it stinks and isn't useable while tanking. We have NO other CA's that are not useable while tanking or soloing. EVERY other CA CAN Be used while tanking or soloing and can help in one way or another. The only other CA that hurts our defense is our offensive stance, which can still be used while tanking (depending on the level of the mob in relation to you,your gear and your group mates). I do think this CAN be used ... not saying its impossible...but i'm saying the risk for return is way too low. Can you honestly all who defend this CA say that you wouldn't prefer it to NOT have the detrimental decrease to defense? Can you HONESTLY say that a 25% increase to crit chance or whatever is so 'uber' as to be as extremely situational as this is? I'm sick of seeing these threads about this CA. I understand why they are here ... but if SOE hasn't looked by now, they never will. I have an adept 1 of it i was given by a guildie, i scribed it but only used it a handful of times, it doesnt seem to return good enough results to me. If i'm NOT the tank in the group, that means im in a DPS role, and even if i'm in a DPS Role i need to have some 'plate tank-ness'....if an Add comes in i pull it first just so it doesn't go to a Mage/Scout/Priest because I have 'quick' reflexes and recognition ability. Not a knock on the other people i work with as tanks, but i come from FPS type games where you need high Framerate and quick 'twitch reflexes' so its like natural to me. If your sole intent is to be DPS and NOT tank ANYTHING ... then why did you pick a zerker? I'm not saying it has to be a skill i can use all the time, but to not be useable while functioning in the role intended for me by the game ... is silly. Someone else said it right when they said, thats like having a Swashbuckler ability that they can only use while THEY are tanking.
i think i asked in another thread that was locked, anyway do ppl who actually like jugg, spec in str line? where your crit chance is exponentionally increased? if so that would be the reason why so many "seem" to see the reason for jugg and why others do not. i don't know the numbers for the str line, i never went or even looked at that route, but i was under the impression it was at least over 50% crit chance, add to that the 24% chance to crit with jugg and the crit chances seem insane(some1 mentioned sk's have 100% chance, so it'd be just like that i'd gather). again problems trying to use this CA effectively -need to berserk. (i don't know how many view it, but in a standard group setting facing a lvl 71^^^ or a heroic 4 group encounter, it usually lasts less than 30seconds and i'm being very generous with the time, sometimes berserk doesn't proc the instant a fight happens, so i can't "choose" when i want to use jugg, 60% of the time, which would be at the very beginning of the battle) -need to be NOT tanking (in a group setting, this is just outrageous, 99% of the time i never NOT tank, sure there are times when there's a guildie guard grouped with me, course it's best to let the guard tank, not b/c they tank better, but b/c guard DPS is so low, they get way more DPS tanking, with DS and reactives than if they were to just try to do dps, which zerkers will do better in both situations, other than that, no i tank all the time, In raids, yes it's "optimal" to have a Guard MT, sometimes you don't get a guard MT, so you'll be the MT, yea i know it's shocking there won't be a Guard at a raid to most, but it happens, and often times you'll be OT anyway or around for mem blur assistance, rescue whatever, not good to try a rescue, and forget you have a big hat with 2 horns up which means you'll be dead once the mob turns on you cuz you rescue'd.) -flaw in archtype (i've said it b4, our arch type is to tank, even brawlers have a stupid stance that lets them do dps and gain aggro, whether they want to or not, pallys and guards siphon aggro, in general we tank, the 6 of us the brawlers,crusaders,warriors, we stand and get hit, no one really cares if we can do dps or not, no one really cares if some class can make others berserker or give the group max haste or max HP, they just want the mob to NOT hit them. i do not believe there is any other CA in the fighter arch-type that would hinder anyone's ability to tank so greatly, and i mean it's like casting debilitate on yourself, w/o a good ol priest to cure you. Which makes this art, only useable while NOT doing an arch-type job, which is tanking, goes back to my swash analogy, if they had to hold aggro and tank a mob, then they can use thier lvl 65 unique ancient spell, it would be fundamentally wrong||| or have some stupid cleric lvl 65 ancient self buff, if cleric does 5k damage in an encounter, heals group for 2k, it just doesn't follow the arch-type job) again if you like jugg, do you have aa skills that increase crit chance as well?
I still don't know why people hate this skill so much. I like it. I use it pretty much everytime it's up when I'm playing a dps role in a group. Only times I pull aggro using it is if I am spamming my attacks at the same time... which is to say when I'm acting like an idiot. I like to see all those extra crits go up when it's on. And when I do pull aggro, I'm definitely not one shotted. I go down faster, but it takes about 7 hits to kill me. Plenty of time for the tank to get aggro back. Look, this skill is not a huge damage combat art. I look at it as on the same level as any of the other dmg attacks we already got. If you are pulling aggro and dying using this skill, imo only one of three things can be happening: You don't know how to pace your dmg output (slow the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] down)... you have waaaay too big a weapon (do you really need to use Vukar'ohk, Sword of Legend here?)... or the guy tanking is asleep. If you are not using this skill when playing the dps role, you are only holding yourself back. That's your choice.
Because of the hit to mitigation and defense. What is the logic for it? Scenario: MT is down, Berserker pick up the adds! Umm, No! I still have 15 seconds on Juggs so please wait for my horns to disappear. :smileysad:
For me it's different, i'm not "band-aid" dps, i don't expect to be in a group and think i r dps, or i don't expect to go on a raid and think, i'm not MT or OT, i'm here to berserk the scouts. Just like how scouts can be a "band-aid" tank and tank mobs with a shield, but just spammed with heals, sure they can tank, heck even dirges get hate aggro buff, i don't see ppl wanting scouts to tank tho, just like how i don't see ppl wanting zerkers for dps, sure it'll happen, but we're there to tank, and you can't tank with this skill.
2 comments raiding the twin dragons, and I was on the fire one, in a dps role. Its aoe was not hurting me much, so when they were both at 6% or so, I went crazy on my dps, and decided to Juggernaut, did not notice the HP ticking down, and right before he went down, bam! aoe hit, and i was low on hp. Raid tonight, most of the time i was around 10 or so on the dps list on my parser, conj, nec, and scouts beating me out. But on some fights, I got as high as #5. Zerkers are a great dps class when fighting multiple mobs, due to our AOE. You can't tell me that if you have done Poets Palace: Return raid zone, you dont start drooling when the MT pulls them groups of 10+ mobs.
Thats why I said don't use it when AE's go off and you have to stand in. In fact, if you're talkin about pedastal of sky....-- if you're doing that zone correctly...it shouldnt even be going off in the first place :smileysurprised: And yes, I can get up to 1200, 1300 DPS as well as our other zerker when we use jaugguarnaut
I don't care about the stats but i would like to see the lil horned helmat dissapear as i am a froglok berserker it looks so stupid hanging over my shoulders.....why not make it increase our size the same way the lvl 65 Mystic(Boulster) spell does with an added flames effect?
I think the basic problem that most people have with juggernaut is that it interferes with our primary role in the group. The damage on it could be tripled and we still wouldn't use it. To those who say this skill is just a "bonus" skill to use when not tanking, you forget that this still costs a slot in our skill list. Had we been given two skills (one for tanking and one for dps'ing) then people wouldn't be complaining about it. I've used juggernaut a few times and hardly noticed an increase in damage at all...though I was well aware of my reduced defenses. So I decided to spend some time and figure out exactly how much it improved my damage.My juggernaut is at adept 1, which increases combat art damage by 20% and crit chance by 20%. Lets look at combat art damage first. The base damage is increased to 120%, and has an additional 20% chance to crit. A critical hit adds a flat 30% to the damage a combat art or melee hit does, so...(120% * .2 * .3) + 120% = 127.2% Thus we gain a 27.2% increase to combat art damage. The critical hit portion of the skill naturally affects melee (autoattack) damage as well. (100% *.2 *.3) + 100% yields 106%. That is a 6% increase to autoattack damage. You (certain people in the berserker community) can claim the skill has a use...but it is a stretch to say that the skill is actually good. At adept 1 this skill gives us the following: 6% increased autoattack damage 27.2% increased combat art damage -39 parry -39 defense -1300 physical mitigation -1300 resistance vs all types of magical damage 64 health to cast and 64 every 2 seconds (and can only be used while berserk) The data speaks for itself... Message Edited by Narnian_Lion on 04-15-2006 10:31 AM
I am aware of what Moorguard has said about crits. That crits always land in a range of maximum damage + 1 to maxiumum damage * 30%, however, from in game testing from myself and many others, this is simply not the way it works. Every single time disfigure crits (our slashing dot), the dot portion lands for 30% more damage than what it shown in the tool tip. It never varies. If the dot portion is listed as 100 damage, then it will always crit for 130 unless I raise my strength, when it will then crit for 30% more than whatever the new base damage is. I have 8 ranks in weapon expertise, I see this all the time. You can also see this with the awakened stormwind battlemace. It procs a heal for 445 points and when the heal crits, it always heals for 578. Here's the thread about critical hits. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/...essage.id=97304&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 (edited to fix spelling mistakes) Message Edited by Narnian_Lion on 04-15-2006 05:03 PM
The last time I saw disfigure crit (a while ago, I don't look so often at my damage) the damage was exactly the same like without a crit. Maybe they fixed this and now it will only crit for exactly 30 % more damage. But this is only the case with disfigure.
Juggernaut (Berzerker) - Duration: 24 seconds, Recast: 3 minutes. Decreases Defense and Parry by 39. Decreases Mitigatoin of caster vs crushing, slashing, piercing, and magical damage by 1300. All GROUP/CASTER combat arts have their base damage increased. Increases melee crit chance by 24%. This ability can only be used while berzerk! would this work?
"This game is not rocket science. We could train a monkey to play it." LMAO every time I read that. - I am proof!!
