Is the Price Rise to Spell Research Reduction Reasonable?

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Milliebii, Aug 30, 2014.

  1. d1anaw Well-Known Member

    The ultimate irony here continues to be the howling that took place when SC was first introduced has now become howling because the prices are too high for some.
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  2. Filly67 Well-Known Member

    I think that many posters are confusing people not having enough money as being their issue for thinking these prices are too high. I am sure that there are many players like myself to whom the money is not the issue at all. But in our opinion the cost does not seem reasonable in comparison to the service being offered for many other reasons then the actual cost. Part of being able to afford whatever you wants usually means you have done many things to get to that point, including making smart purchases. IMO this is not a smart purchase. If I was still raiding, I still wouldn't do this. For me it's the principle of the thing. I don't believe this game is earning this type of payment from me anymore. I feel that the money that is being collected for items such as this are being overpriced in order to support games other then this one and I am not interested in my money going to those ventures. I will gladly renew my sub each year because for me, although this game is suffering from poor population, a lack of attention to detail and an inability to sometimes understand what the player base wants (among other things). I still get enough enjoyment to continue to pay for four accounts.

    If enough people pay for this option then SOE will continue to price items like this. That's fine but it won't make me purchase it.
    Griff likes this.
  3. Ynnek Well-Known Member

    Not so much, as it's a different set of people howling ;) It's more of a case of "no level of difficulty in obtaining things will make 100% of the population happy". No matter what, it will always be too low, or too high for some - the best they can hope to accomplish is only getting yelled at by 50% of the player base at a time.

    In this case - we are talking about using SC as a shortcut to bypass game mechanics for obtaining items. These are not things *can't* get in game. This are things it takes effort/work/time/plat to get in game. The bypass cost used to be lower, now it's higher.

    The people who don't think SC should be usable to bypass game mechanics, probably aren't happy at any price, and don't really have a dog in this race.
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  4. Veeman Active Member

    No, that's not what I said. Learn to read. What I said is top end guilds are going to demand you have grandmasters and ancients as soon as possible. How you get there is your choice. Obviously your choice is to play the Find Your Master again spell and then all of the rares. Me, I'll just buy mine and move on. Enjoy the endless hours looking for you masters... Again... and all the rares. I don't feel like wasting my time.
  5. d1anaw Well-Known Member

    I agree with those who say that value is what you make it. No one NEEDS to drive a $150K sports car. A car after all is merely a vehicle to get from point a to point b. It isn't necessary to pay a ridiculous amount for one. But some people CHOOSE to do so. That doesn't mean, in spite of the current thinking of many in younger generations, everyone is entitled to do so. You are entitled to try to work your way into a position that ALLOWS you to buy one if it's important to you, but everyone isn't entitled to have one because they exist. It's no different here. No one is ENTITLED to anything. You can choose to work your way into something or you can choose to spend your way into something. I'm with those who, even if I have the money am not likely to fork over the money for something that is available through other means. I work and I am entitled to spend my money as I see fit. I don't see fit to spend it on stuff that I can get otherwise. Not everybody can live in a mansion. It is what it is. Why is this any different? Seriously? Besides, I bet those who are complaining the most about not having money are the same ones who will think nothing of spending the money they do have on cigarettes or other non-essentials. This is just another non-essential in the bigger scheme of things. And if they don't sell at the price they are offered, they may lower the price. That's how supply and demand works.
    Filly67 likes this.
  6. Griff Well-Known Member

    Respectfully, just a few observations:
    1. The people that are complaining about a very large increase in price for the same service. This is not a case of going from a $25,000 car that cost the manufacturer $15,000 to build and wanting the $150,000 car for the the $25,000 price.
    2. People that are complaining are basically saying that the $25,000 car was affordable to them in the past, the increase to $50,000 for the same car is not a value/affordable to them.
    3. People are asking why a car that is the same as the previous years model offering the same features and options went up in stock when it's the year(s) end model. It's not faster or better, just more expensive.
    4. Supply and Demand? They have the power to create that demand and the power to then make that service affordable to a select crowd. It would be like having the power to create a fast lane for only cars that cost $50,000+ and then raising the price of the $25,000 cars to $50,000. You can still get there in that $25,000 car, but you might be late and others will be passing you by.
    It's a game, I agree, but it's also competitive and some raiding guilds desire the best to be able to do more content successfully. It comes down to peer pressure and in this case, the one with the most disposable income wins. Prior to such mechanisms being in the SC store, the beauty of online games is that you logged in on equal footing based on in-game effort, not real life financial status.

    Also, something to think about, F2P will be able to now scribe masters. Sounds great, right? Except Masters will now be in shorter supply and in higher demand by those seeking masters that were not before and by those seeking masters to upgrade to grand masters. So, in a sense, the supply for masters dropped in the game is now spread out with a much higher demand than ever before while the drop rate remains, at this time constant.
  7. Ajjantis Well-Known Member

    LOL just LOL,.
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  8. Dulcenia Well-Known Member

    Actually I'll be selling GM spells if i get them. I do not, and never will raid. Have fun pouring your money down a ratonga-hole.
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  9. Sisca Well-Known Member

    But it is in essence what you're saying with the way the GM system is currently functioning on test at least.

    Masters are a rare drop and even when they drop the odds of getting the one you need are slim (or in my case mostly non-existant) so you could spend weeks or months just farming the ones you need. Then you have to get the GM book you need to make it which requires research that takes a base of 15 days or you have to get lucky and get that to drop as well. Then you need to harvest a rare that, from all accounts, is so rare at the higher end as to make masters look like they're giving them away. So all told you could spend months just getting to the point where you get the first GM.

    So are you saying that the players that can't afford to drop any amount of real money on just buying them (even if they dropped the price back to previous level) aren't going to be welcome on raids until they go through all of that?

    You're also saying that "top end" raiding guilds are willing to exclude a large segment of the player base since anyone that's F2P won't have access to these spells no matter what hoops they jump through.

    I have to be honest and say I actually hope that my assessment of what you're saying is right. If that's the case SoE is going to rake in a ton of cash because of this which only serves to let them improve my game while costing me nothing. So thank you for your contribution.
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  10. Veeman Active Member

    You don't "get" GM spells, they are all research only. You'll need the master, 5 rare harvest, 1 ultra rare harvest and the recipe book for the spell. Only master and ancient spells will be drops, not sure if ancients will be raid zones or not. Glad you don't raid, you don't appear to have the mentally to do it effectively.

    For Sisca, not saying that raid guilds will require you to pay for your upgrades, what they will demand it that you have your GM spells in the first few months of the new expansion. How you get them is each raid members problem.
  11. Loredena Active Member

    Since Dulcenia is a harvester and crafter she'll "get" them by researching the GM recipe and crafting them if she happens to get a master to drop. Since she can craft any, eventually, she'll actually be more likely to be in a position to sell since she won't care if the random master drop is for her class or not. Certainly I plan to make some to sell myself, should I ever manage to get the ultra rare harvests required (that's more likely to be the limiting factor than the master it seems). It appears the recipe will also be dropped, but not the spell itself.

    Ancient spells will be drop only, I'd be surprised if they only drop in raids though. They will require both that you have already scribe the grandmaster and of course that you are all access.
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  12. Sisca Well-Known Member

    I'm going to take you at your word that all raiding guilds feel this way. I think you're nuts but you know what, I'm not a raider, so it really doesn't matter to me. You go ahead and play the game the way you want to.

    Just don't come here whining that there aren't enough players and we need server merges since you're more than happy to alienate a large percentage of the player base in your quest for that 5% edge.
    Avahlynn, Griff and Filly67 like this.
  13. Wintir Active Member

    I suspect that only the Cliff Clavens' of this world can afford to pay that kind of money for al la carte spell upgrades. Easy if you don't pay rent, live with your mother, and have no girlfriend or wife to spend your loot on :cool:
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  14. Griff Well-Known Member

    It's the same problem that PvP faces. People complain that not enough players are willing to PvP. Then when players try PvP, their beaten down and insulted by a small percentage of the "elite" crowd that expects you to already be experienced and geared as well as the long time players.
    Loredena likes this.
  15. Griff Well-Known Member

    It's the "Catch 22" of the SC store.
    1. We won't make the store an advantage, so anything that is not "Fluff" in the store will be obtainable by a means in the game; then claim no real "Advantage".
    2. For you to spend "X" dollars in the store on "Y" service, the service has to somehow be perceived as a value.
    3. If you could achieve the benefit of "Y" service in a what is perceived to be a reasonable amount of time, you would save "X" dollars by obtaining it yourself.
    4. For a service to appear to be a value to a percentage of players with the expendable coin to purchase, it has to be something they really don't have the time or inclination to accomplish in the game. That's how a purchase is justified by the consumer.
    5. If you don't have the expendable coin, it's truly an "Advantage". If you have the coin, it's a "Perk" in the store that holds value.
    Blame us, because we taught them how it works!
    • Raids, Zones, Quests that offer marginal rewards for great effort are often bypassed by players because "Hey, I can get much better, for less time invested, while being better geared and less shunned (perceived) by my peers".
    • Content is perceived to be meant to be steamrolled through. We should never walk away licking our wounds and bested by challenging content. Give me potions, clickies, fabled gear, the highest tier of spells and mercenaries please!
    • I don't have time for this, I have a real (insert: life, job, family)....it's not fair, let me buy stuff instead!
    • The game starts at end game, why waste time actually playing. Give me a level 85 and all the stuff that goes with it (insert credit card).
    Not saying I don't use some of the perks or that they are bad. Just saying we taught them well.
  16. Griff Well-Known Member

    Weird analogy, but here goes:

    Years ago the New York State Police were one of the first to have the ability to accept credit cards to pay for a speeding fine on the spot.If you paid on the spot, you received an advantage.
    • No court appearance required or mailing in the ticket with the payment and hope it gets processed.
    • No reporting the offense to Department of Motor Vehicle and receiving points. Points that, should you be close to the limit, might cost you your driver's license.
    • No points = No insurance surcharge.
    • Done if 5 minutes, speed off to the next town (ironic).
    It of course cost additional money to process on the spot (almost $25 back in the 1970's).
    • You could of course save the additional fee by mailing in the payment. Back then, NY was famous for taking the money, losing the processing and issuing another ticket for non-payment. Good luck fighting that since it required a court appearance and even after proof, it might again be lost.
    • You could go to court, argue the case, maybe win and save the ticket fee. You of course lost a day of your time doing so.
    • Either of the above choices might very well result in points on the license, loss of license and/or an insurance surcharge.
    So paying a fee upfront to gain a benefit at a premium price is nothing new, even in real life.
  17. Avahlynn Well-Known Member

    Sounds like the mother that spawned civil forfeiture laws...That mess is downright terrifying.

    And as for anyone spending 500 dollars to upgrade spells in a game...where nothing counts in RL, and all of it is pixels...well, lol, ok. Have fun with that. Btw, I've got a bridge to sell ya...
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  18. Kurei Hitaka Well-Known Member

    *Looks at the part of the update notes that reads 'Increased Master drop rate in ToV heroic and raid content'*

    *Leaves Thread*.
    Loredena likes this.
  19. Ironwu New Member

    I also *used* to buy upgrades with SC. No longer. Money (a lot) left on the table by this cash grab.
  20. Veeman Active Member

    I'm confused, how am I alienating a large percentage of the player base? Most I'll never meet since they are on other servers. On my server I'll meet maybe, maybe 2-3% of the players there. I'm not asking or telling anyone how to play the game or how to get their grandmasters. Do want you want. But for those who raid, especially higher end raiders, that 5% is critical, it can decided whether you or the other person playing your class stays in the raid guild.

    ps, also didn't say all raid guilds feel that way. Many raid guilds are not super serious about it but do definitely want to progress. Their rules may be a little more flexable. Raid guilds like people, come in many forms and sizes.