Interesting Observation... AC isn't what prevents Zerker Damage...

What race are you playing to have 154AGI? I am level 45 and a Barb, I have 90-105 depending on my gear selection AND I took the AGI traits..

Half-Elf

http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...5993.sdt-foyert16-27009?characterId=104053101

Its 147 on my profile, but with my pristine lvl 50 tunic, its 154.

And the big question is, Do you notice a diffrence with AGI?

Yup.

If this is true, that sucks. agi needs to be nerfed. All these ogre and troll tanks with low agi and they suffer because AGI is way overpowered.

Then raise your agility with items in the game and traits.

But they gain in having higher strength and stamina, increasing their attack and health and regen and can easily add AGI bonus equipment. And a half elf only has 7 more agility than a troll does, and 10 more than ogre. nominal equipment upgrades to counter that.

AGI will be nerfed im sure, its effects are clearly overstated compared to other abilies.. if an extra 50 agi lets you dodge an extra 20% of the damage coming it would have to compare to an extra 50 str increasing your damage output by like 40% because mobs hit for so much more than players.. and stamina is, well virtually useless, especially when you consider there is no CH in the game.

I doubt it will be nerfed, since the devs have it and all other stats hard capped. What most people don't realize is that its agility AND your defensive skills that matter the most. Plus agility has three benefits: it adds AC, it increases your chance to evade and improves your accuracy.
Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 01-21-2005 03:16 PM

Im 100% sure that they will already be looking into nerfing the way agility works for Plate class and to give a Light class a better inniate evasion rate depending on there Agility count ( if thats not how it already works, if it does they will most likely just lower plate class ). It makes no sense what so ever to have a Tank ( Plate Class ) acting like a Monk ( Light Class ) and im sure they would see this also.
In my honest opion agility in this game is way overpowered, you get a Bard in your group top it off with a Defiler / Mystic, you have 100+ agility, wards plus the mob is slowed, u barely take damage. You can almost count on the evasion rate for plate class wearers to be " adjusted "
Taemek Frozenberg 33rd Berserker
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Aonein Amillion 26th Monk ( retired )
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Five Rings on Luclin Server

"We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."
Message Edited by -Aonein- on 01-22-2005 10:57 AM

Here's a thought: what if AC mitigation is ignored for "spells?"

One of the (legitimate, in my opinion) gripes that the Shaman classes have is that "spells" (read: Spells and Combat Arts) go right past their wards. Thus, a Wild Swing will completely ignore a Ward and, if it lands, do full damage. Now, Wild Swing does use Power but it's rather ludicrous to consider it a "spell."

I suspect, however, with the rushed programming that apparently resulted from the early release of the game, that all "Power-using abilities" were treated the same. Thus, they ignore Wards. What if they ignore Mitigation also?

After all, it doesn't make much sense for 1-inch thick plate armor to mitigate any damage from "Ball of Flame."

However, while Combat Arts might ignore Mitigation, they wouldn't ignore Avoidance/Parry/etc. because one condition of their landing is that the mob actually hit. This might explain the apparent over-importance of Agility: it's not overpowered, it's working as intended, it's Combat Arts that are bugged because they ignore Mitigation.

Thats correct Gage, but they wont " adjust " it for you, as a Monk class is born to evade / block, thats what they do, a Tank is born to take a hit, not evade it monk style with high end agility.
If they dont fix agility they got only once choice which is to push the mobs attack ratings through the roof, which in turn will make Trolls and Ogres not worth a pinch of salt as a tank as they lose out in the agility department big time.
Taemek Frozenberg 33rd Berserker
10th Outfitter
Leader of Justice Bringers
Everfrost Server

Aonein Amillion 26th Monk ( retired )
17th outfitter
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

"We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."

I believe AC mitigation ignores spells now, which is why you have saves to mental, posion, divine etc, and also buffs that acually raise your spell mitigation ( as per the descritpions ) from certain caster / healer type class's.
As for mobs combat arts ignoring mitigation and wards, could be a bug, but also might not be and might be the way they intend it too be, problem there is you will never know unless they post its a known issue or you see a fix.
Taemek Frozenberg 33rd Berserker
10th Outfitter
Leader of Justice Bringers
Everfrost Server

Aonein Amillion 26th Monk ( retired )
17th outfitter
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

"We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."

I agree that if everything here is actually happening that AGI modifiers need to be adjusted alittle based on class.

AGI tanks make the best tanks at the end game...

however 10 AGI does not increase your avoidance by the amount you are implying.

Assassins with crazy AGI buffs and debuffs dont get hit....but seems that it kicks in off the charts at lvls monks even have a hard time reasching compared to assassins.

It should eventually get ironed out..and in line with AC damage absoption but right now its a little insane....hell the entire end game is borked, dont bother playing it.

As a zerk I think you would be nuts to shoot for high AGI over STR..we are a damage dealing + damge taking class


Message Edited by OverlordMLF on 01-24-2005 10:29 AM

10 AGI is noticible to me on what can hit me.. it may not be much but it -is- noticible. But with the buffs I get from our bard, as well as the other classes in our group, I would sure hate to see what I get hit for (and how often) if I took on stuff that we normally do with the high agi on me. (High being more than +10)

But, every little bit helps, and if I have a choice between +agi and +str, and it isn't a large chunk, I will go +agi. The less I have to get hit means the less that the priests have to heal, and while serks are offensive tanks, I would rather treat my job as tank FIRST and damage dealer second... so everything I do is to cater to being able to hold the most agro with the least effort.. on my part and the healers..

Well while I dont play the logging/parsing game that much.

But... I would have to say "noticealbe" is really an interesting way to approach a topic like this..

I mean we see it a lot here... someone makes a pretty incredible claim..without actually showing some hard facts...and lots of peeps just beleive it...such as out "we lost 40% of our damage claim " which I hope by now is seen as for what it is.

I would say noticeable is relative..as in if Im fighting greens it might make a noticeable diffference,..but to say notceable on group mobs in a group encounter I just dont think 10 of anything would be seen in a parse...anything noticed would be biased or RNG luck IMO.

Not saying you arent noticing this..because I feel I "notice" things as well.... butmy opinion about the class would be to focus on mitigation not avoidance.... as our ability to avoid vs group matched mobs is not something we can rely on...maybe AGI is bugged enough to allow a plate class to get up to the point of noticeable avoidance..but I havent seen any parsed logs that reflect it. And of course it will always come down to play style what you pick..AGI or STR I guess... but higher weapon skill and damage are more important to a class that relys on mitigation rather than avoidance.

All-in-all We are still in early stages and you can bet that SoE will fix things long term. Right now it seems as they are leaving End game alone to focus on the low/mid game...BUT I am sure AGI wil be the top fix (and actually a few of the AGI debuffs have already been reduced in effectiveness)

You can also bet that as things evolve...Warriors and Zerks wil be the Main tanks groups look to for reliable tanking....Right now End game is absoluty not worth wasting your time to play IMO ..so many things are borked...hell a Pali can be the Main Healer while the Assassin plays main tank /laugh
Ill also add - I too agree...that playing tank is about being a good puller/tank for the effectiveness of the group. I think STR over AGI works for this cause... Higher weapon skill = less misses and More damage.
A Large Percent of a Zerks Damage and agro comes from getting hit. Your Fury's are probably the most Dps over time skill we have. Getting hit puts us into a rage..this too pulls agro.
As for helping healers heal less, yeah thats a big part of the reason to use a shield, but honestly healing in this game is sweet. As long as your healer is using their debuffs and casting their wards/reactives ..and the healer is not wasting power nuking and maintains high power pool... Healing is really done right in EQ2 if anything.
If a zerk is trying to avoid damage.. I can tell you right now what you do nto want to do that will help 50x over picking the traits to increase your AGI or looking for AGI gear. I have logs of this, might post if have time tonight...jsut dont go berserk.....
Message Edited by OverlordMLF on 01-24-2005 11:29 AM