Interesting Observation... AC isn't what prevents Zerker Damage...

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Cozumel, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. ARCHIVED-Cozumel Guest

    I did a test the other day...
    ^^Yellow/^^Orange Clay Guardians in RoV

    Base AC: 1500
    Level: 30
    Base AGI: 70

    1H Weapon + Shield (405 AC) + Buffs + Havoc + Battle Tactics = 2200AC
    Damage Range Taken: 180 -> 606

    2H Weapons (With +4 AGI each) + Buffs + Havoc + Battle Tactics = ~1850 AC
    Damage Range Taken: 88 -> 240

    Did this for HOURS while grouped with a 30-35 lvl group just goofin off in RoV for loot and a little XP.

    Bottom line, is AGI (as stated by the Monks) is not only overpowered, but its what is determining that damage Zerkers are taking.
    I've since upgraded my gear for the max AGI possible, and I'm taking NOTICIBLY less damage!

    -- Coz
  2. ARCHIVED-Cozumel Guest

    Correction, Base AC was 68, with DW weapons it was 78.

    -- Coz
  3. ARCHIVED-Diaboliq Guest

    it's really hard to imagine 10 agi making that much difference. Something is majorly messed up if that is the case.
  4. ARCHIVED-Tyr'fel Guest

    thats why my wood elf berzerker rocks :smileyvery-happy:
  5. ARCHIVED-Padien Guest

    That's why gnome zerkers rock :p
  6. ARCHIVED-sceptre155 Guest

    10 agi for 50% less damage ?
    That would be crazy, I have noticed that AC makes close no diffrence at all, but I hadn't realized that agi makes that big a diffrence.
  7. ARCHIVED-LumpyDoo Guest

    I took AGI for every single stat trait, and I have a lot of agility based gear. It's the only thing that saves me ATM. Base AGI is 110. 150 seems to be a BIG cutoff point where it makes a huge difference. That has been my personal observation. I don't remember if it is a Warden or Fury that gets the agility buff, but them + a troubador has my agility at 190ish, and I was blocking, parrying, and just plain being missed a LOT.
  8. ARCHIVED-sceptre155 Guest

  9. ARCHIVED-Padien Guest

    Where do you get 50% less damage from?
  10. ARCHIVED-sceptre155 Guest

    from the damage range from the original post.
    240 vs 608

    not exactly 50% jsut a rough estimate.
  11. ARCHIVED-Padien Guest

    I was looking at the post wrong. Thought you meant you dropped your damage output by 50%.
  12. ARCHIVED-Elgusano Guest

    I am going to have to test this....

    Your saying you got hit for less (not hit less) with more AGI? That it improved your mitigation?

    From what I am gleaning from agi, or atleast what my rough looks are that with higher AGI, I get do get hit much much less, however I do notice that with higher AC I get hit for less.

    Thats why all these tests have been done with 2 X dual/2 hander vs. Shield+ 1hander for actual damage taken. But yes it does make sense that you would want to have higher AGI as a tank.

    However maybe I am in the old EQ1 mold, but I have concentrated on STA+AC. So far that strategy seems to be paying off well, as I am a requested tank by a few groups which regularly get together.

    Also, I am 32. Might be different at higher levels. Any power gamers, or 45+ zerkers want to chime in and give us some pointer to their success?

    Prosecution

    32 Zerker of Permafrost
    27 Hey I make armor too!
  13. ARCHIVED-reakshavoc Guest

    I've been observing that when I use DW, i take less damage, I was wonder if this is cause im parry more? This is not based on any data, just on observations.
  14. ARCHIVED-sceptre155 Guest

    It's been posted that you take more damage when you DW, because of ripostes.
  15. ARCHIVED-orchidslyric Guest

    DId anyone ever think AC prevented damage? Just to make sure you understand, it mitigates damage so that you take less damage (basically damage absorbtion), but it in no ways "prevents damage".


    The only damage prevention mechanism is Avoidance, via parry, block, dodge or just plain missing.


    Now of course agility is going to make you better at Avoidance...and it is no secret that scout classes have inheritly higher agility. So whats the problem?

    Just on a side note, if that Scout DOES get hit...hes gonna get alot harder then a tank will.
  16. ARCHIVED-sceptre155 Guest

    I've always thought the AC would lower the amount of damage when hit. But, from what I've seen in the game it doesnt. Everyone gets hit for the same amount basically, its the amount of times you get hit that varies. based on class, lvl vs mob and X X ='s stuff I have no idea about :)
    Oh and dont forget a shield, And any shield works just as good as the next. It's the added block modifiers that help. Now diffrent shield types do modify the block %.

    Try it yourselves... solo a few mobs, then run around naked with only a shield and solo a few more. You're gonna be suprise as to how little diffrence it makes.



    Sorry if the post sounded alittle backwards, trying to do to many things at once.

    Message Edited by sceptre155 on 01-19-2005 12:56 PM
  17. ARCHIVED-LumpyDoo Guest

    Well I don't know what peoples "thoughts" are on AC. Some seem to think it actually helps in damaghe mitigation, which I don't 100% agree with. I think AC can help mitigate, but very minimally.

    Example: Adding 200AC equated to me being hit for about 10 less damage on a 1200 damage style from an even con mob. (which easily could have been standard variance....)

    What I do notice is.. when using say a shield.. besides blocking more, I tend to get more "The mob tries to do whatever to you, but misses!" messages. Why is this? I think AC has everything to do with whether or not a mob just straight misses you, but not how much damage the mob will do when it actually connects.

    I think mitigation has everything to do with the type of armor being worn. Honestly, I don't know that having 4500AC or 1000AC would make you take much more damage with each hit, but you would get hit more often due to your AC being so low. So, in essence, a player with 1000AC in plate, and one in cloth, both woudl be hit the same % of times, but the cloth wearer would take more damage.

    Does that make sense to anyone?

    In summary (my opinion):

    AC = chance for mob to just miss you.
    Armor Type = mitigation potential
    Agility = increased chance for defensive skills to be succesfull (dodge, riposte, block, parry) and a small role in overall AC factor.

    This is troubling, because if what I think is true.. then avoidance (I.E. super high agility), NOT AC, will be the key factor to being a great tank, which is a sad situation for races like Ogres and Trolls.




    Message Edited by LumpyDoo on 01-19-2005 01:38 PM
  18. ARCHIVED-LumpyDoo Guest

    Hmm, see my previous post, this is exactly the idea I was talking about that I disagree with. Conceptually, I totally that is how it "should" work, but it doesn't appear so to me.
  19. ARCHIVED-CherobylJoe Guest

    Interesting idea; kinda a wholesale paradigm shift though from EQ1 which was as Orchid described with mitigation and avoidance buckets behind UI AC (see steelwarrior.org library for explnations of that). I have no idea how the stuff works in EQ2...I'm actually enjoying the mystery at this point.
  20. ARCHIVED-Jherad Guest

    Hmm, could be a step back into the golden oldie P&P days...

    Must be some old cronies around that still remember the premise of THAC0?

    :)