Individual Loot for Heroics Dungeons Feedback

Discussion in 'General Feedback' started by Kander, Mar 17, 2023.

  1. Kander Developer

    This thread is being opened for a specific place we can get your feedback on the individual loot system for heroics and how we can improve on it. Please keep the feedback constructive.

    Have loot locked, not zones locked. Making it so that people can play with friends, guildmates or pick-up groups more freely, not having to be locked to the zone. Opens the ability to help others if so desired. We want individual loot to feel rewarding, and try to find better ways to make it feel so.
  2. Ziefren Active Member

    Being loot locked and not zone locked is one thing but selling people the ability sit there and spam heroics via the market place + buy their way into extra loot rolls is just a terrible direction to go in that will cause raid teams to second think if they even want to bother with the system.
  3. Smashey Well-Known Member

    For me the problem isnt the keys or the system per say, if the keys were only obtainable through game play. .

    The problem for me is that progression is resolve and essentially players can buy it from the market place, even with it being a rare heroic reward. That is the problem.

    Sure we accepted it when it comes to player output in the form of buffs and stats after a while, heck barely anyone is upset any longer when they gotta upgrade familiars twice a year now, but gating players with resolve and then selling a solution for extra money is bad game design and is game breaking and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
    Ziefren, Agarth and Aggy like this.
  4. Aggy Member

    Having loot that isn't so heavy on RNG would be rewarding. Also not being able to buy loot with real life money would be rewarding. IMO anyways.
    Fetish and Manafizzle like this.
  5. Ziefren Active Member

    this right there, its directly progression impacting. Whats the point of even trying to compete with teams that do this heavily?
    Manafizzle likes this.
  6. Ichoris Well-Known Member

    It's clear that the problem is the P2W parts of your plans. Most of the complaints I have seen are that they don't like the keys on the cash shop and you keep adding too many P2W things to the game.

    It doesn't seem that hard to see what the solution is. Just remove the keys from the cash shop. I'm pretty sure you won't remove them from the cash shop.
    Savriel likes this.
  7. Zhevally Well-Known Member

    The individualized loot has been great for getting stuff from the zones. I love it. My problem is you can buy keys to get more loot, but the keys seem incredibly rare from the zones. If they keys weren't buyable from the marketplace I would love this system.

    I would like to see the final bosses have a higher chance at gear if it's going to stay not class locked(which is nice for people gearing alts). Alternatively give us the option to trade the loot with people who are in zone(I'm not sure how easy/hard this would be to do since we aren't looting the items from the chest). Or give us an option to trade stuff for currency so we could trade say 2 or 3 drops we can't use for 1 that we can of the same tier.
    For these zones in specific the common drops aren't that big a deal cause we already had equivalent from h2s, but could see it being a problem for future zones. The rare drops are what's giving people problems now because you can get lucky enough to get a piece and have it not be for your class. Given we have to roll gear and then roll a rare drop, I think those items should definitely be class specific, even if the common drops aren't.

    Honestly if we can buy keys, they really should be basally guaranteed from out final boss kill in the zone - even with 1 guaranteed key per a zone there will still be a gap between those that can buy the keys and those that can't, but people would be able to lessen it by running more zones. I'd love to see an option for if you run a zone you can't get any loot out of you still get a key, as this would allow people to farm the keys letting people use time to catch up with the people who buy em.
    Just make the final boss always give everyone in the zone a key regardless of if they get a loot box or not.

    As another note, I haven't played with this to see if it works or not, but I do think our 7 day instance lockout resetter from overseers should also reset all our loot lockouts(unsure if it does or not yet). [Considering that previously if we used it to run a zone again we would get loot, just not mission rewards]
    Samo and Manafizzle like this.
  8. Clintsat Well-Known Member

    I like the idea of individual loot rewards to allow folks to help others (particularly in the beginning of expacs). Imho, this shouldn't be tied to the cash shop in any way or it perverts it into a scenario where folks will no longer want to help others but will just stick with their normal groups for loot purposes.

    It would also be kinda nice if you had free loot lockout reset a day (or week) so you could help out one other group and not be "penalized." This could easily be tied to overseers to force folks to pay attention to that aspect of the game. Having it a random loot drop is not consistent enough.
    Arclite, Quillyne and Zhevally like this.
  9. Moss Well-Known Member

    I hate the idea of individual loot rewards in MMO games. It kills all the social aspect of loots in the game.

    While I could understand how indiivual loots would feel more rewarding for "solo" players. You could go in any group and either you loot something you want or not. You do not have to worry about competing with the other 5 players or a bad rng to get the loot you have been chasing for 6 months.

    But when you play with a guild, not as a mercenary but as a friendly community, having loot in chest allows us activily interract with each other, get ties, have fun and drama, and well fell like to be part to an MMO.

    When a loot get in a chest we will not all press "need" even if all of us wants it. We could pass for a friend that it needs it more than us, we could agree that one player will take this loot and another will take the next one. We have social interaction about that loot, we talk, we debat, we joke, and sometimes it creates drama. The loot is a big part of the game, not only the killing.

    And we could trade the loots that we do not want, when only one group could run a hard zone we will trade loots to players that have low time play or could not run the zone yet. How many times I have run a zone not because I need it but because someone in our guild needs it. I remember some old time when 3 different groups would run the same zone at the same time to try to get a specific loot, then offer it the one that needs it.

    Just yesterday I suddently received many tells in game and a discord message from a group of friends who have drop the two hand desert partch weapon I was looking for. We discuss some days ago how I was still looking for it and farming it. And when it drop ion their chest the first thing they did was to call me and offer it to me, even though they could have loot it for them or one of their alts.

    Individual loots will kill this social part of the game.

    It will also kill SLR and gifted loot and prevent some form of "global" progression in the game. When there is a very good loot in the chet that nobody wants you could give it, you could sell it, and it keeps its value, either for you or someone else. If you are unlucky you could post in auction that you are looking for a specific item and someone may eventually get it for you.

    Individual loots will only benefit the one who are lucky to get the right item on his own.

    - You want players to help others other and not being zone locked :

    remove zone lock or set it to a minimal value (1h is fine)

    - You want players to feel rewarded for their second/third run, you want more players running zone all the times:

    Add currencies to buy any item you want and have never been able to win on rng
    Limit it to one purchasable item per week
    I would love to buy loots for my alts, even just cosmetics loots sometimes

    - You do not want players to get all the loot table in a week :

    There are already other ways to do that for those who wants/could: playing alts.
    The drop rate is already so low that you could run the same zone every day for a month and not get a single item you want (players actually leave the game because of this insane grind, they are burnout, individual loots will make it even worst as there will be no other way to get the item you need)
    There was way more items per chest in the begining of the game and it was not an issue for players why is it now ? Go to any heroic/raid zone from level 50 to 80, and count the number of loots per chest.
    The problem is not the number of loots entering the game, but the lack of content.

    If you want players to be even less socializing and fell even more alone in this MMO go for individual loots. But I'm not here to play a "solo" game with random players.

    Individual loot have emotional value only the first item you get it, chest loots have values everytime you get them.

    If you really, really, want to add individual loots for the "solo" players, leave the chest loots and add an indiviual loots that you get only the first time you run a zone (per day or per week). But I would really prefer to have currencies to buy the item I want after putting enough efforts to get it.
    Cobeoj, Denebi, Chari and 4 others like this.
  10. Tigerr Active Member

    I think everyone is perfectly fine with the individual loot system - Its the idea of being able to pay for keys/loot unlocks that is driving people away. If its one thing to listen to your player base on, its this right here. As much as I enjoy staying competitive, there is no way that I will be buying crates prior to every H3 run. While I could afford to buy a ton of these crates, I simply refuse to buy crates and spam run the H3s (and we all know this will be coming to the new GU/Expansion zones) to remain competitive.

    The current monetized model helps people that want to pay for loot more than it helps players that need help in those H3 zones. Truth be told, it is pretty offensive to introduce a system like this while things like class balance/itemization have never been worse. (There are still classes that have not been fixed after years of feedback)

    Second Life Chests were teetering on "Pay to Win Loot" but, you were able to pick 1 mob that it would work on. Providing a slight advantage if you got lucky. This of course, was a great cause so no one had an issue donating to it. What we have now looks like a monopoly that was created as soon as DBG saw the amount of money that people were willing to donate just for a few bonuses in game. The whole thing just feels.....dirty.
    Denebi, Quillyne and Agarth like this.
  11. Skixxxx Member

    you take away some important aspects of social interaction from the game going that route

    you completely loose the feeling of having achieved loot together, distributed in group, declining items for a friend who needs it more, passing on to guildies outside of group and so on

    if i want individual/personalized loot, i would just play a single player game
    Voaskess, Savriel, Quillyne and 5 others like this.
  12. Beee Well-Known Member

    With the actual implemenation I got in a H3 round
    2x same 440 ring I'm wearing
    1x shoulder i'm wearing same 445 resolve
    6x Mote of the Regrowth
    feels like 100 temporal adornments

    All of these items would be needed in the group and are not tradeable within the group :(

    And we have to spend $$$ for getting random benefits.

    The system rises the gap betwenn players with luck and players without luck (may I have a reset of my EQ2 random generator) ;)
    Manafizzle likes this.
  13. Beee Well-Known Member

    I really prefere in heroic instances smart group loot - which can be looted by everyone who participaded the fight (so no SLR)
    In raid zones we need the possibility for looting outside the kill too (more players than the 24)

    Personal random loot without sharing in the group (or addition loot for $$$) is crap and ruins the community
    Jrox likes this.
  14. Jrox Well-Known Member

    I love the idea of locked loot rather than locked zones. Then running with friends who play different time slots allows for a lot more opportunities to help guildy's where we have lost population in our guild/friend circle over the last couple of years.

    Although the prospect of running a zone with nothing to gain feels like zero fun at the same time. I pass on a ton of gear now and my play time has dropped because the "CARRY" Factor has been crazy this xpack. I am litteraly burned out on saying, "Sure I will pass for you, you need the resolve more than me." And we are still on T2 mobs because over half the raid force is not at resolve.

    Then your attempt to cure that no loot run is the added keys and resets, which I thought was awesome until I realized they actually are RNG on a huge curve, meaning ultra rare drops. Then to boot, they get thrown in the market place and look like a money grab based on what you guys saw as a lucrative opportunity based on what you saw in a charity event. ~ I hope this is not the case, charity is meant to be just that and there were stories floating around this might happen right after the event, low and behold~the shoe actually dropped. Again, this is just an observation, not saying that is what drove it. but I am sure you can see how the community might jump to that conclusion. It's just not a good look.

    Now let's add in the class imbalance with a few classes still and, what it appears from my circle of friends and people I group with, rapid decline in population and this really hurts. I had three people tell me if they were going to have to pay to raid they were done. It's March and our guild who is normally on pace is not even to T3. Some of it due to a number of people leaving game added to the super restricted and not so smart loot.

    I think a rework may be in order but I think you might also consider just adding one more piece of loot to the crates from bosses. The gate is too superficial and honestly, I don't see a carrot worth chasing right now.


    Just sayin...
    Voaskess, Manafizzle and Agarth like this.
  15. Felmerian New Member

    1. Allow any loot in the zone be tradeable with anyone in the xone at the time of opening.
    2 Remove keys from marketplace or even altogether.
    3. If you need more revenue then up the monthly subscription by £1 per month.
    4. PTW is wrong.
    5. I like that I can run a zone with a guildies and I honestly don't mind not getting loot to help out. I'd suggest that we'd all agree to that.
    Manafizzle likes this.
  16. Terrius Well-Known Member

    I'm going to put aside my issues with the pay aspect of the keys, since that has been plentifully addressed in the other thread.

    I believe a smart loot system or a "choose your armour type" crate needs to be used for the loot rewards in the individual loot system going forward. It's disheartening as it currently is to get the rare 445 items only to find they're Leather, or Plate, and I'm a mage. Sure it's great for my alts, but really kills the joy of running these zones if I cant ever use any of the loot. At least if I could choose "cloth" or an armour type for an alt I'd feel a bit less defeated by the loot itself!

    Temporary Temp adorns currently seem to make up far too much of the loot tables. Temp adorns are fine if no other real loot options exist, but to have them all vanish after logging out? It's rough.

    Allowing the drops to be tradeable with anyone in group at the time of kill and not "locked" out from the loot for the mob would go a long way in addressing the loot issues as well.

    Overall I'm really happy about the idea of the system, being able to freely help guildies on my Main without worrying about lockouts is excellent. Once the loot situation is sorted out, I'll be happy to see these roll out to more levels of content!
    Tyrval, Azeren, Chath and 2 others like this.
  17. Priority Well-Known Member

    If this is the way it's going to be, loot needs to be class usable. That hurts alts, but most people have 1 character they focus on. Removing the ability to hand loot out to others outside the group removes the possibility of actually getting pieces you need. That, or make items tradable amongst the members of the group at the time of kill.

    And remove all the fluff crap

    The current way its handled is horrible.
    Dude likes this.
  18. Manafizzle Well-Known Member

    As I stated in the other thread...this system has some glaring problems.

    1. Granting a group of people no-trade and heirloom items that they might not need or want means that even those in the zone when the boss dies can't distribute items appropriately to help improve the group. (or the raid should it spread that far)

    2. Creating a deficit in attainable upgrades for the expansion coupled with an overly steep climb from step to step (solo, H1, H2, H3, raid tiers) and then introducing a real-life-money way to increase your chances at maybe getting a piece of loot just honeslty looks and feels very, very bad. It looks like a shameless money-grab, and players are already pretty irritated. It also means that the competition of world firsts, achievements etc. boils down to only a matter of money. people get all the things. /eye roll

    3. Many people are struggling to break into H1 or H2, and very many people have relied on the help of guildmates to pass loot nobody needed from a group that can get through to players who might be struggling. This means that won't be possible, and since the content is tuned so highly out of reach for many more casual players it kills the casual player base for heroic and raid content. One point is that well, then maybe they should not be trying to do that content. But, if nobody can 'break into' that content from a starting point...who's going to replace those leaving?

    Some possible solutions:

    1. The keys are extremely rare as drops. I have run several H3 zones since this was implemented and I haven't gotten one at all within the game. So, if you're saying 'It's okay to sell them because you CAN get them in game' is silly. They're rare as feahters on a froglok. People are definitely getting them from crates, though.

    If this system is here to stay, the key needs to be guaranteed for finishing each H3. Every single time. Not a one in ten or less chance. These zones are strat heavy, time consuming, and require a certain level of ability, gear, and dedication, and that key would definitely be earned. It is fair.

    2. The 'personal rewards' should be tradeable as if they came out of a shared chest for those who were in the zone when the reward was received. Two mages in my group today and the scout got a 445 cloth hat that would have been a massive upgrade, and he doesn't have a mage alt. Wasted keys for him, wasted super rare item that would have benefited the group and our raid force. That's a loss all around.
    Sigrdrifa and Benj like this.
  19. Manafizzle Well-Known Member

    This is an idea I hadn't considered, but would also mitigate some of the problems this individual loot system creates. Too many people are getting things they can't use. Not being able to specifically roll on what you need and pass on what you don't means that you're stuck running more and more and more just hoping to land the correct armor, jewelry, weapon etc.

    If you could trade it at a vendor for what you DO need, that would solve at least part of that problem.

    It won't help your groupmates, though. So, it would still be better if the things were tradeable within the zone with groupmates before zoning in my opinion.
    Samo, Zhevally and Sigrdrifa like this.
  20. Manafizzle Well-Known Member

    Oh, that's a great idea. The ability to pick which armor type you're given would also fix a lot of the problem. Just like when we got the monolithic boxes or the 435 chest from the picked which one you wanted from the box.

    People are getting 'wrong' gear a lot, and it makes a lot more sense at this point to give choices instead of making every single thing super rare RNG frustration.
    Azeren, Vlkodlak, Chath and 3 others like this.