Improving Our Alternate Advancement (AA) System

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Windstalker, Dec 12, 2014.

  1. Recn New Member

    You know i was just talking to a guy earlier about the dumbing down of eq2. Rather than make the game more intersting we want to encourage people to totally skip learning the game so we can have another level 100 healer out there who thinks " I have plate armor, I have melee skill ... Hey I can tank and proceeds to not heal gets himself killed and wipes the group again. Whats with the lets make it easy to bypass the levels you need to play to learn your class. Its like Sony wants eq2 to fail so they can devote all their resources to Landmark and Next.

    Really its like Sony wants to imitate WoW.

    :(
  2. Finora Well-Known Member



    I did miss that earlier post. I'd just got in and saw the news over on Eq2Wire & came directly here to post the opinion after reading Windstalkers anouncement again.

    I appreciate the clarification. Still not the biggest fan of the change, but it's less noisome with that alteration that it was as it was announced.

    Honestly I suppose it shouldn't have been a surprise with the last expansions focusing on Prestige points instead.
  3. Benjamin Member

    If I still have the option to "grind" AAs to get up to that next end-of-line spell I'm close to, then I support this fully. Nice!

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE also add per-tab building and +/- buttons for AAs. I really hate getting to the end of a carefully thought-out build and realizing that I need another 2 points to get one of my Dragons end-of-lines, and deciding I need to dump something selected way-back-when. Rolling back 200 AA selections is not fun.
  4. The_Cheeseman Well-Known Member

    I mean no offense, but I simply can't comprehend this perspective. How, exactly, is SOE forcing you to do anything, here? You can still choose to stop leveling and grind AAs whenever you like. If you level lock a lot you won't benefit as much, but it's akin to a restaurant surprising you with free dessert after a meal you didn't have the appetite to finish. If you're too stuffed to eat it, nobody is going to force you, and the value of your meal hasn't changed.

    As for leveling, it's always been trivial. I doubt it would be possible to make it any easier. All this does is reduce the amount of time you have to invest performing a trivial task. I am a huge proponent of generating investment into your character, but making character advancement too intimidating has the potential to prevent new players from even trying. I think this is a sensible compromise.

    It's always been amazing how the EQ2 community can somehow get enraged by anything SOE does. If SOE decided to give out free money, somebody would complain that it was in the wrong denominations.
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  5. The_Cheeseman Well-Known Member

    I hate the phrase, "dumbing down", especially when it is so obviously false. EQ2 gets more and more complex every year. In fact, it is my opinion that EQ2 may be a bit TOO complex for a lot of players, but that's a discussion for another thread. Suffice it so say, leveling has never required any skill, and most of the important aspects of mastery aren't even relevant below level 90, anymore.
    Lady Marlyn, Bekkr and Griff like this.
  6. Griff Well-Known Member

    I'm honestly growing tired of getting flamed for voicing my opinion on what feels like money down the drain, but here goes. Some of us purchased the DM add in as well as spawners and other items associated with the DM. Too bad, it's changing, better luck next time.

    Even more of us used the sale in the store and on points to purchase the 280 AA bauble. That's what sales are for, right? Oh, if you waited you could get 320 points instead of 280, or even just avoid the sale in favor of a much more manageable grind, better luck next time.

    Last year, around this time they had all kinds of deals in Vanguard while promising a bright future with a major patch. People spent money in the SC store only to announce it's sunset a few months later. Better luck next time. I feel like the perks that we purchase to make the game less of a grind are either being abolished or given away for free.

    Do I like the change to the AA system? Absolutely! Did I like buying the 280 AA baubles for a couple characters in the store during a sale only to discover that they are worth 40 less points than the ones purchased on the 18th? No, I feel like I've been taken advantage again. They want people to support the game, which our family does; but it's getting harder to spend money in the store when you watch it go down the drain.
    Loredena, Snowdarc, Brennin and 2 others like this.
  7. Ynnek Well-Known Member

    I get what he's saying, but that particular horse left the barn years ago.

    At one point, EQ2 was a game where level progression mattered. You leveled as you adventured, through the expansions. That's just not the design any more. Now you level to before you 'start' an expansion, or in the first fraction of it, then spend most of the expansion at max level.

    At one point, EQ2 was a game where AA progression mattered. It was a true "Alternate Advancement" path, in parallel to leveling. You go out of you way to pick off named you haven't killed before, complete unique quests, etc.. But again, that's no longer the design. Combine XP->AA Conversion, and add the fact that each expansion contained enough front-loaded AA to max AA with one swift sneeze, and again, you spent only a fraction of each expansion earning AA's, and the rest at max AAs.

    (The last 10 Hell AA's being an exception, which is why I like them. Unfortunately, they're not worth that much in most cases)

    Both aspects of Leveling and AAing over time, were not lost today. They were lost years ago, many years ago. EQ2 is simply no longer that game.

    Today, the mechanic simply separates players. It prevents new players, and new alts, from playing with their friends. Level up a toon and come play with us... oh.. wait.. you can't even level beyond 90 until you grind out 280 AA's... now we either have to go have fun without you, or not have fun while grinding you up, bleck...

    The people that choose to stop and smell the roses along the way, which they are welcome to, can still stop and smell the roses. And they may even feel robbed because other people are being handed out starter roses. But since it takes roses to play with your friends (ok, the analogy just went sideways), making them grind themselves senseless for them just hurts the player base.

    This change might help that.
    Loredena, Bekkr, Feldon and 1 other person like this.
  8. Griff Well-Known Member

    Simple question?

    They track EVERYTHING we purchase in the store and know who has purchased the 280 AA Bauble in the past.. Since they are able to check your AA with the new system and upgrade you to the appropriate AA for your level upon login on the 18th, why not upgrade all those who purchased the bauble to 320 AA? Obviously the system will be in place to check the option flags on the account and upgrade to 320 accordingly.
  9. Kurei Hitaka Well-Known Member

    The bauble itself is getting updated on the 18th, as well, as mentioned in the opening post. And any leftover 280 AA CoE baubles will be usable at level 10.

    Anyone with the SC store bauble in their inventory will most likely have the updated one on the 18th from my understanding, seeing as one person was recommended to keep ahold of and not use the one they recently purchased.
  10. Griff Well-Known Member


    Respectfully, I'm betting that the majority who bought the bauble purchased it, like myself, for immediate use, not to hold in their inventory. Holding on to it would wipe away any AA earned up to the point of use and defeat the purpose.
  11. The_Cheeseman Well-Known Member

    First of all, I have seen no evidence that they track marketplace item purchases on an individual character basis. SC is account-wide, after all. Secondly, there is no reason to retroactively grant an extra benefit to a feature that a consumer purchased prior to upgrading that feature. It's like demanding that Microsoft give you a free upgrade to Windows 8 just because you bought Windows 7.
  12. Garl New Member

    In my opinion, AA is a way to individualize the character. So if you change the system to get AA's in dependency of the level, why do you stop at level 90?
    Give all AA in dependency of the level.
    It is senseless for me to say that you get the AA to a specific level by leveling the character and after reaching this level, you have to level the AA individual (by killing NPCs, solve quests, etc.)

    With your change, you have two individual leveling mechanics again. Sure not from the first level, but two leveling mechanics are two level mechanics. So please drop the two leveling mechanics completly.
  13. Juraiya Well-Known Member

    Actually, with this they ARE listening to the users. I hear people all the time complaining about the level 90 grind to get 280 AA. ALL the time. I've never heard anyone before saying that they actually liked being locked at 90 while they tried to get the AA.

    I think at first SOE wanted it that way so people would play Velious before moving on to Withered Lands, etc., but after doing it 6 or 7 times with alts, that gets boring. While I don't know if this is the right mechanic to use, I can't think of anything better, and it's certainly better than what we had in place, so I'm personally happy about it.
    Shmogre, Loredena and Feldon like this.
  14. Almee Well-Known Member

    I have bought every xpac that has been released, as far as I know. I admit I was knocked off Test for almost a year, but I don't think you brought out two xpacs during that time.

    I tried to see what expansions I had listed, on my account, but wasn't able to get the page. So I was wondering if someone could post a photo of the AA bubble we are supposed to have gotten with CoE.

    While revamping the AAs how about making it possible to have production and harvesting together. I know we had this discussion before, but I hate having to loose all my buffs and mount, to produce stuff, and then put everything back when I'm done. It is so dumb (my apologies to whoever came up with the idea).
  15. Erudinel Conceptualized a turd in a toilet sometime in 2005

    Was waiting for this announcement since you said something was coming earlier. Good change. Makes it fit in line with progression. Now the haters can stop with the im 90 and cant go on.. yada yada yada. (Maybe if they hadent PL'ed in the first place it wouldn't have been a problem, but yea)
  16. The_Cheeseman Well-Known Member

    I think we need to coin a new law, similar to "Godwin's Law."

    As the discussion about any change in the game grows, the probability of a comparison to NGE approaches 100%.
  17. Hijinx Well-Known Member

    I bought a new character slot and a bauble late last week. Will I accept a refund or upgrade, sure :) Do I expect one? Nope. You make the best purchasing decisions that you can at the time you purchase. Whether its a car or a laptop or phone or even some fashion forward shoes, there will always be something better coming right around the corner. Such is life.

    I bought that bauble for that character so I could set my exp bar at 50% at level 10 and never have to grind an AA point. I got exactly what I paid for. No complaints here!
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  18. Burly New Member

    I don't get one Developer says the AA Bauble gives "4. The 280AA bauble available in the store will be raised to 320AAs and usable at level 10." and another Developer says "They remain 280. You will however be able to use them at level 10. "

    Is it that the Station Store SC purchased AA Bauble gives 320AA and the free AA Bauble you gave us will still only give 280AA?
  19. Nefarious Member

  20. Glammer New Member

    I bought a new character slot and a bauble late last week. Will I accept a refund or upgrade, sure :) Do I expect one? Nope. You make the best purchasing decisions that you can at the time you purchase. Whether its a car or a laptop or phone or even some fashion forward shoes, there will always be something better coming right around the corner. Such is life.

    I bought that bauble for that character so I could set my exp bar at 50% at level 10 and never have to grind an AA point. I got exactly what I paid for. No complaints here! <-------------------- NO WAY!! Doesn't wash. SOE can make an exception for people that got caught within a day of the announcement or some arbitrary time frame and retroactively upgrade their baubble or whatever to the new type, lets say 320 AAs. Doing nothing encourages more behavior like this.