Illusionist meant for mages only?!?!

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Jrox, Jul 20, 2020.

  1. Jrox Well-Known Member

    So I have been raiding with a few different teams in Outlaws on Halls of Fate trying to find a good fit for my Beastlord since I put the Illy aside for a bit. However...

    Last night I had a disagreement with a Wizard in our raid. I mentioned that he had a nice set up with a Inqy, Fury, Troub, and Illy in his grp. While simultaneously being single target buffed by another Illy in a second grp. I then added, "Boy I would love that set up swap the Fury and Troub with a Warden and a Dirge. " He then goes on and on about how dumb I am in that Illy's only belong in a mage grp and serve no use to scouts...

    I know better, what I am curious of, is how many of you mages out there think an Illy is meant for Mages only? It seems to be a pretty big misnomer based on who I was talking to. I had always thought this person had a good understanding of classes until that moment. And in that moment I realized just how one sided someones perspective could be. As I have always felt like the Coercer is meant more for a MT or OT grp, and Illy's in the DPS grps.

    Honestly I think he was scared I would start demanding his Illy be moved to my grp. And in all fairness I was beating him on the parse with only a troub and Inqy in my grp. He has no Idea how bad it would have been for him if we simply swapped grps and gave me that Illy. Rapidity - Tim Warp - Peace of Mind - Flash of brilliance alone would have just damn near doubled my parse.

    So let me ask again, how many mages believe the Illy is meant for Mages and the Coercer for scouts? Please come with more than just a yes or no answer. I am curious to see what crawls out here lol.
    Argosunited likes this.
  2. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Coercer utility is currently inferior to illly utility on almost every level.
    An illly might provide marginally more buffs for mages over scouts, but they still buff scouts in a big way
    Kuulei likes this.
  3. duckster Active Member

    Mages are salty in general but originally Illy was the chanter of choice for mages. Those melee/caster preferences are gone now since coercers are still under-buffed even with recent changes and in an ideal setup there would be 4 Illies in raid.

    I think what benefits the mages slighty more is the base stats on an Illy but since they also buff WDB , a melee orientated class will get more extra benefit from that . All in all , Illy > Coercer.
  4. Jrox Well-Known Member

    Appreciate you all chiming in. I didn't want to make this a Coercer vs. Illy convo as we have plenty of those right now and I think we all agree the Coercer needs work in the utility area.

    I was really hoping to see if any mages chimed in with "Illy's are mage grp buffs not scout grps" But looks like I may have just run into a one off.
  5. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    Coming late to the party, but would echo most everyone's observations here. The statement "illy's are mage group" goes back to a time when there was a distinct difference in how the two matched up with their attacks, etc. That chit has changed a lot. That said, as a former illy, the one thing that gave me 'coercer envy' was the ability of the coercer to feed power to another group in a raid.
  6. Melt Actually plays the game

    Coercers are just for melee / illies are just for mages!
    Mystics are only for melee!
    Inquisitors / wardens are only for melee!
    Fury is only for mages!
    SK is only for mage groups!

    Class balance is so garbled right now that any traditional roles for classes are totally meaningless. Just about every archetype has a better half, objectively.
    AOE1 likes this.
  7. Jrox Well-Known Member

    Hahaha, awesome!
  8. Fatyl New Member

    Arms of imagination spec'd right offers 5% flurry to any class. Best used on a scout class like beastlord. Changed the parse substantially in raid Thursday. A scout that had been 3rd on the parse previous two raids moved to 1st with the added flurry. Got questions from other scouts about what my buffs did. Synergism buff goes well on caster or melee DPS. Spellshield goes best on Tank I prefer MT or OT group in this case. But will put it on myself if no tank in my group. I stopped specing for Time Warp because most of the raiders have push their Casting, Reuse, and Recovery to max and the added improvement from TW are wasted and the points can be better used elsewhere. Rapidity increases weapon damaging making it beneficial to Scout and tanks over mages. All that said I think there is a strong case for an Illy in the MT or Scout DPS group over Caster only logic. With all my buffs on a necro pushed DPS their up by 15% (tested with dummy in guild hall. Cast spells without my buffs, then cast same spells with my buffs). Haven't tested with a good scout class yet but will do that next week when my assassin friend is on.
  9. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    If I am hand picking my own group for my Warlock, I'd like some Illusionist and Troubador love.

    Fury has some nice buffs for a caster, but they need to be updated. Dirge has at least one debuff that decreases the mob's NOX resistance, which is good for a 'Lock. Mystic debuffs and damage have good synergy with Warlocks.

    In reality, there are at least three mages in the group, and we ALL want ALL the buffs. I'll happily take whatever buffs I can get.
  10. Revanu Well-Known Member

    you do realize fury buffs are some of the best buffs available due to the insane amount of raw Attribute boost and lucidity?
    no offense but I’m curious if you know what you’re talking about most of the time
    Breanna likes this.
  11. Melt Actually plays the game

    See the other current post...

    Then again she also said wardens and templars are the most desired healers in the game, so like...
  12. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    I am noting the number of people playing Furies who betrayed to Wardens because of Reasons. Among those was the gripe that the buffs needed to be increased a bit at high levels.

    When someone asks what X class is most desired, I'm basing my answers on what I've been seeing guilds on my server asking for, and I think I usually say that.
  13. Revanu Well-Known Member

    Riiiiight, cuz that answers the question accurately. Since ya know since xpac launch furies have been incrementally better and more desired.
    Snikkety and Breanna like this.
  14. Clintsat Well-Known Member

    Furies have the best mage buff package of any priest right now and a solid buff package for scouts. Wardens have their place but it generally is not in the mage group.
    Snikkety likes this.
  15. Jrox Well-Known Member

    Illy in a scout DPS grp is just as good as a mage dps grp. Why you ask... Awesome, let me explain...

    If specked properly the Flash of Brilliance is beast for scouts. Rapidity if specked right can offer 54.4 WDB and OC. Time warp works for CA's just like Spells and in testing still boosts dps because it triggers the reactive's the way it does spells and CA's, might want to test that a bit before you give up on TW. Flash of Brilliance is candy for all. Chronal Mastery gives the nice Fervor buff of 18.7 for the group. Synergism is raid wide to specific targets so don't absolutely have to be in a mage grp to put that where it belongs. Peace of Mind works with CA's the same way it does with Spells.If you are an Illy, and you are an Etherealist, I find the benefit from ancient Synergism out weighs Celestial Recap.

    There are other tricks I could get into, but for now, or at least until the AA revamp, the Illy works in both grps.

    That doesn't mean the coercer isn't or can't be just as effective in other ways. This is merely a discussion about the Illy and what grp they belong. Honestly I would want 2 Coercers and 2 Illy's in my raid. Coercers in MT/OT grps and Illy's in DPS grps.

    Some folks want Illy's everywhere but the MT grp. That is a discussion that has been debated to overkill. And opinions have varied over the years through many variations of specs and xpack needs and desirability.

    On a side note, Fatyl have you tried specking for Illusionary barrier in Prestige and using it rather than spell shield? I find it more effective and useful. I am in a heavy survival spec at the moment for the content we are in, but I do like the Barrier spec.
    Fatyl and Nazy like this.