Ideas to save Nagafen

Discussion in 'PvP & Battlegrounds' started by Cuoco, Jan 12, 2015.

  1. Trasor Active Member

    Siren, I would actually take all of those old things, all of them, that was the game I fell in love with. Having enough skill to smack someone wearing MC vs. raid/heroic gear.
    Slant and Siren like this.
  2. Fetish Well-Known Member

    There would be no way that they could clone the mechanics, do to code changes, but they could do an amazing semblance by using zone specific debuffs... For example, no flying capability in certain zones, mount speed debuffs, no proc debuffs, then they would only need to nerf the travel bells and you would have a world where people at least need to travel once again...assuming that they also make other red server specific changes, like LADs requiring you travel to the instance. Maybe be nice and let the queue up port you to a revive spot in the larger outside zone, so you just have to run to the instance.

    Oh...and most importantly...exclusion from BGs.

    None of that would be hard...the set up and maintenance on it would be simple as it would be just adding then adjusting the zone debuffs, and those could easily be grouped by tier so you are really just adjusting the debuffs for anything in that tier. Example, Antonica or Commonlands would have slow ground mount capability only (no flyers), with no procs, and a 10 level range, T3 zones would up the ground mount speed and allow any non damage, non heal proc, etc up through the tiers until you reach a free for all at the end tier zones.
    TS (Throat) likes this.
  3. kafodoo Active Member

    PVP was at its best during its primordial, but we all have to accept that it has flaws and those flaws are what drove people mad making people go to the forums to complain about how to make pvp flawless, but in reality, it hurt everything. Of course, you will have those classes that are weak, but good for any other cause. I remember having a mix of characters around the tiers, and it didn't take hours to make those characters and you would just go up as time went on. Running around all the zones was fun, because pvp was at every angle of the map, but now it has vanished into thin air and the changes have had a major effect on everything. PVP was good up to the beginning of BG's and Warfields, then came the rage-fused pvp gear with stat separation (it was a fun time, but forced a lot of people to quit, because they didn't have the time to grind with the population drop), then SS, which had an even bigger downfall, but peaked for a while then a boom happened, then COE made the population go down to the point that no one wanted to pvp due to the fact that pvp gear took endless hours to get, and the summer during COE, the population fell completely. Do we see a pattern here? Over time, the population dropped due to drastic changes, thus making the pvp in eq2 un-recoverable. In conclusion, the only idea I have to save nagafen is a progression pvp server, because it will stop the complaining and allow people to re-live what was once a sanctuary of fun at every corner. Thanks

    -Kafodoo: Cleric of Nagafen's glory days.
  4. Ajjantis Well-Known Member

    Some posts bring it to the point.

    Why do people believe, that PvP actually needs any Dev power? It doesn't. Battlegrounds ate so much dev power and it was just a real waste.

    Fixing Nagafen is easy: Remove BG, turn off those instant travel options including flying mounts and adjust some classes. That's it!

    The first things are very easy and its just the last thing that is actually hard. But class imbalances were never a game breaker for me personally.

    There we go. No fancy warfields or anything. Let the game live through PvE with pvp enabled. Those were the good old days. Fighting in contested zones, in highly populated quest areas, at giffin tower, for raid mobs. Sounds too easy? Yes it is easy.
  5. psalms New Member

    Is this thread for ideas on how to fix nagafen, or how to give crappy thoughts on how AB is so freaking great? Nothing else is like open world pvp. BG's are a poor excuse for pvp. I, personally like ajjantis' solution. Simple and we shouldn't worry about the care bear clowns. There aren't any of them left on Nagy anyhow. Add in a few small incentives to come back to Nagy and I think we can get back to some pretty decent numbers.
  6. Caiss Member

    I'm mainly a PvE player but I've had my fun on the PvP server too from time to time and I recently went back to see if I could have some fun with PvP and well that didn't happen. Came here and saw that ALOT of people want change.

    So here is my idea (probably bad and has a lot of flawless but w/e), what if they just gave everyone on the server a free transfer off Naggy to the server of their choosing (give everyone like 2 weeks to a month to choose). Population on Naggy now equals 0. Now make it a server that everyone from all servers can transfer on to for Open world PvP and WFs. Revamp the server so now it just holds a few zones for open world PvP and WFs. Like the WF zones for example so there can still be a variety of tiers.

    What this does it allows all servers to take part in Open World PvP and WFs when they got time. Some may say that this is just a temp fix. Well lets take it a step further. Why not add Raid Bosses in that are Contested and offer loot that can only be found on these guys. Make the loot good enough so Raid guilds wont just ignore the Raid Bosses. Don't make the raid bosses extremely hard or strat heavy. Probably just a simple turn and burn with maybe a few curses here and there and a hard hitting AoE to joust. Adding a mix of both PvP and PvE would probably be best since the PvP crowd seems to be dying and SoE is not listening to them as much and if you got some PvE in the mix might get more attention.

    For example lets say Ant became the new top tier zone where everything goes down instead of KP (probably wont happen due to level of mobs but again just for example). Expand it to include Ant and TS. So Raid Boss spawns only and TS and a raiding guild sees that it spawned and try to go for it. They must go to Ant and run all the way to TS entrance to get to TS. No fast travel. Gives them a chance to kill it without contenders who just want the PvP.

    Some issues I saw with this. Well if everyone is on same server what about factions? Screw factions and do it like how the exiles have it. Everyone is hostile but you can group up (only issue with this is WF). Another way to do it is how Guild Wars 2 does it. Make it AB vs Unrest vs Cushbone or something along those lines (this way seems like a lot of work for the Devs so probably a no go). Or make it so this person gets put in and is assigned to this faction and pray to god that the game does a decent job at keeping the sides equal in numbers.

    Just my 2 cents and I thought I would throw my idea in.
    Maddest likes this.
  7. Schnooky Member

    Naggy was always destined to sink, bgs are just the last refuge of pvp left. Naggy died for many reasons, but none more important than the overall player base decline that occurs with all MMO's.
    They are born, peak at some point, and dwindle.
    It's not a sine wave.
  8. Nuada Active Member

    too save nagafen i have no idea but, i think the best PVP save is. Make on all Servers pvp.. i mean a Button on the Options so i can Activate yes i make PVP or not and this button have a one hour timer, and then all servers can have WF ect and all where no pvp want make it off and can questing without pvp stress.
  9. Exur Well-Known Member

    Which nullifies the entire point to Open World PvP... people just don't get it or don't have a grasp on what made EQ2 PvP great. Just let it go... the EQ2 PvE changes over the years have phased out open world pvp which is what Nagafen is for. Like literally, that is what Nagafen is/was (questing with pvp stress). PvE changes will never be reverted. WFs are not PvP, they are a BG so continue encouraging they get moved to BG server.

    Let it die and if they enhance the BG experience, enjoy what you can.
    Siren and Fetish like this.
  10. Twinbladed Well-Known Member


    No point anymore lol. Open world pvp to most of these people is beating towers every two hours, hitting the minimum amount of ca/spell's and never having to use any mental ability at all. They will never experience watching someone for 15 minutes, going into any zone and fighting randomly, meeting at zones, playing contested, picking and choosing the way you would like to set up your toon, etc.. It will always be two shots, trending, and this repeated debate of what is pvp and what it just farming....
  11. Daalilama Well-Known Member

    Cuoco has some valid points to discuss however during ToV beta and into the first quarter of ToV live, myself and others worked with the devs for options to help reinvigorate open world. For a time it looked like we were on the right track with the reintroduction of pve procs into pvp however lack of time and staff doomed that part (not the myth that they couldn't properly scale them). The idea of /copy to naggy was also put forth as well as free transfer tokens to naggy and the option to allow blue servers to queue up for naggy warfields....each had promise and their own set of headaches....

    The /copy idea floundered not due to concerns about exploits but rather due to the coding issues (I believe at the time Kander advised some of us working on naggy issues that it seems the code from the old role play server was not compatible with what was intended so that went no where...there was never any mention of vox's old code and if that would have worked as a better alternative).

    The Free server transfer's to naggy was an option that would have worked, would have only been free one way to naggy but not off...as there was never a real explanation why this didn't get implemented most of us assumed upper management didn't like the idea of losing money from server transfers...your guess is as good as mine.

    As for the allowing of blue servers to queue up for Naggy warfield's, while some elements needed are already in game to make this happen (such as the queue system for warfields/warzones, other technical issues we no in place at the time to make this a reality). With that said one issue we were advised before this could realistically be looked at as a viable option was the ability of dungeon finder going cross server (which from what I have read is a possibility when and if eq2 is migrated off oracles servers to the new servers that already have Landmark there already (not quite sure of the technical restrictions on the current oracle servers versus the other company's servers that could make this happen)).

    I like the idea of pvp tokens being added in pve loot chests as an added bonus for Naggy players...and it does give incentive to run pve content again which has been gone since the removal of pve procs/gear...it brings back the true community mechanics of the red server after all while there is some small incentive for pve centric players to do pvp...there's currently little to none for the opposite which is what led most of the core of naggy pvp to leave the server or quit.
  12. Exur Well-Known Member

    Lack of time and staff has always been the reason they couldn't properly scale proc. The myth is a reality and what has always been said about proxy in PvP. No effort/resources to do it right or maintain.

    Welcome, they just did it too late and the drop rate was beyond miniscule.

    PvE changes ruined the PvP experience more then anything else. I wish people would more openly accept this and stop blaming everything else. Not going to list them all, like this... it's all be beaten to death.

    ... yes, I'm bored atm.
  13. Marschstiefel Active Member

    I think sony should give us all gingerbread costumes,and we can all fight eachother as gingerbreads. That should bring pvp back
  14. Reinstall New Member

    Here's my two cents:

    Do you know how ridiculously easy it would be to gear out a whole guild of hardcore raiders in T1 equivalent armor in this expansion? You have to grind battlegrounds for a bit to get it, but with a bunch of premades, it'd be cake, especially if they were raiders who understood how their class worked. The stats on the endgame pvp gear are redonk for the minimal effort required, you don't even HAVE to win to get pvp tokens. Blue war runes work on nagafen, so you don't have the issue of having nice gear (that you can choose as opposed to random) that's wasted because you don't have a war rune. You can adorn and equip players in battlegrounds endgame gear, and easily take on the earlier content with strats. Onyx did it from EoF to KoS. I think having competitive raiding on the server would bring some players back, if not just for pvping in the off time, then having a realistic shot at climbing the progression ladder and putting nagafen back in the limelight.

    It will take work from the community to restablize naggy's economy (18g 50s per 100 food item, last I checked) but this has always been a community driven game. Dunno if most people are willing to put forth the effort, since most seem unwilling to even roll a level one toon on a new server. :/
  15. Fetish Well-Known Member

    One idea...that might not take too much coding, and once that coding was done would take no work to maintain...is make Nagafen a complete free for all, no factions. If you aren't grouped or raided up, you con red...
  16. Exur Well-Known Member

    Already exists... Exile. Shared Bank now, so not sure what the hold up is.

    And the PvE advantages on Nagafen were made pretty clear when they posted the last round of PvP updates concerning the PvP effects working on Nagafen and not on PvE servers. I would never ask an entire guild to fund a transfer, but they would have an absolute advantage with PvE progression. The reality is, if a guild did that... and climbed the PvE Progression ladder, you can bet your life PvE server guilds would complain and the Nagafen advantages would be removed from PvE once again. This happened with TSO expansion when people couldn't figured out why the Russians were so far a head of everyone else. OMG, it's a PvP server!! rip/nerf for the PvE server needs.

    So good luck with that cat and mouse chase. Offer a free transfer to Nagafen just to see this entertainment once again. At least it would be something funny to read about.
    Fetish likes this.
  17. Reinstall New Member


    Very true, maybe just a pipe dream. :/

    Not to mention almost twice the current population. :p
  18. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    Lol, Nagafen is dead and isn't going to make any sort of come back. It is to late. They had years to revert changes or just something and keep the server alive but PvP was never a focus of the Dev's on this game and never will be. Don't get your hopes up
  19. Xray Active Member

    honest speaking, perhaps the only way to fix the server is change the mechanics a bit more like this:

    WF flag gives the following:
    Everyone has same gear, same AA and same spell level, but you gain points / currency after you complete writs or make kills. Points / currency will allow you to get temporary advantage of a small to moderate amount (in a form of higher spell grade, faster speed, higher mitigation etc). The effect wears out after WF ends.

    The primary reason people not able to return is the token grind. I geared out 6 toons every expansion, and kinda tired also. I mean everyone has time away from game, every time this kind of cycle comes some gives up, and end up lesser and lesser population left. Even if we merge another server in, as long as pvp gear takes forever to get it will be the same, people away for a bit will be discouraged to return.
  20. Fetish Well-Known Member

    Nothing else to say...this says it all. Well, except maybe remove factions and make it FFA (No...Exile is not the same, good try though).