I see the devs posting in a lot of class forums can we please hav an answer about our seal line?

Discussion in 'Warlock' started by ARCHIVED-Raxe Slade, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. ARCHIVED-Moonspark Guest

    The dev came in, tested it and said it wasn't changing...that's the end of it.
  2. ARCHIVED-Aralys Guest

    I am just staggered, boggled that the dev could consider that test as a significance test. Not only does it not prove or disprove whether the spell does ANYTHING, it doesn't even give us a hint. You may not need 1000 trials, but you need more. There is a huge amount of variability built into SoE's "random" number generator. Just assuming that a proportion of .32 vs .22 is significant won't cut it.

    In other words, he completely fails to reject the null here: We should continue to assume that this spell does absolutely nothing. You could easily see two 50-trial tests with this much variability without no changes whatsoever.

    On top of that, he tested vs. red. Un. Believable.
  3. ARCHIVED-Cuz Guest

    Cuz he might not have the time to do so. This the first time I've ever seen numbers from a dev testing wise. I'd be surprised to see another.

    Findarato
    Ask your troub buddy to remove the buff, you also remove yours. Kill a few, then one of you put on, then the other, and finally both. Maybe we could find some more numbers that way. If you're too busy I have a level 30 troub, and a few Warlocks in the guild. I guess I could try to get them to play there alts with me and waste some time :)
  4. ARCHIVED-K@z Guest

    Hi, I'll try to write some my experience :smileyhappy:

    It is some time ago, had Quest Fallen from Beauty in Pillars, don't remember my level, but had Seal of Dark Rumi... masterI on. Target is to go and speak with some member of Ashen Order. He give you update to kill harpies. I go there in invis, all was yellow and orange for me. Talked to him and see named harpie with one add spawned (if I remember correctly, both was 1 arrow down), lowest orange for me. Hmm orange, but I have my uber m1 skill technique adjustment :smileywink:
    Begin with bony, nice both rooted. But from now, Cower (master1) to named-resisted-, debuff -resisted-, some DD -resisted-, last 30s of duration casted again Bony and Cower, only Cower had one success on add. Than named was free, last try with Deter and Vulian ... and than...my death. Very nice :smileyindifferent:
    When soloing using Vivid Seal a3, in group now Seal of Ebon Thought, because have in group wizard. Don't see visible difference in using or not using.
    In group when fighting high orange or low red, was there some tries. But only effect is debt, because I rise only casting skills, so if spells has better chance to land, the tank taunts not = dead mages and priests :smileywink:

    btw will be free respec after LU16?
  5. ARCHIVED-Tiranus62 Guest

    Hello,

    First i just wanna say that i'm french so excuse me for possibles mistakes in my post, i'll do my best !

    I play on Storm serveur, a Lvl 45 Warlock and here is my situation :

    * My stuff is just an "average" one that's mean i'm far far away from the INT cap reachable.
    * My spells are NOT maxed : Master 2 for the main nuk and all others in adept 1...
    * More, i'm NOT going to have the SoD extension, so my cap lvl will be 50.
    * I play in a guild with friends in groups of 2 to 6 guys (tank, heal, etc...), sometimes solo anyway.

    So, What i want to say is "i'm not a hardcorte gamer playing Orange/Red mobs in raid everynight" buy more simply a "simple" warlock searching for green to white when solo and same colors heroics when grouped. Let me say that i'm very happy playing this way so i wont spends hours just to find the "best stuff aviable" for me. Beside, i'm very happy with all warlock spells. I have big pleasure to play with.

    In this point of view, the probleme for me is : Is it better for me to use "Dark Rumination" or should i use "Vivid seal" ? (and not "Dark Rumination" VS "nothing att all")

    Reading this thread, i'm sure now that Dark Rumination is useless for me, as my own experience using this spell told me already.

    I got no choice, that grey low level speel giving me some INT is the only thing i'm able to put on with some effect. I'm very happy to think about thoses guys max-equiped who find somethink usefull in Dark Rumination. That's not my case. That's not the case for my friends. That's not the case for MOST of warlocks i talk about with.

    Just something more and i promise it's the end ;) :

    I remember an old RP game (i wont tell name and company) with spells, stuffs, etc... not MMORPG but played online in group of 6 players maxi (yes, this is about this big red devil beast). Somethink REALY NICE was the very nice offical website where we were able to find REAL EXPLANATION OF ALL SPELLS, with FULL EXPLANATIONS, DATAS, BOARDS about how works each spell (and stuff).

    What do i find here for EQ2 ? : ingame screenshots, sometimes showing master versions, sometimes adept 1 or 3...., list of spells with short explanation. No more.

    So don't be surprise when player have to ask directly to Developpers what the purpose of this spell. It's just the result of an outrageous lake off SoE communication...

    Have fun in game anyway.

    Ekenae
    Message modifié par Tiranus62 le 11-09-2005 11:27 AM
  6. ARCHIVED-Tanith_ Guest

    I'll admit it's a little harder than i thought with standard gear. However, with 380 int the difference between that and max int isnt that big. +200 max dmg at most for ice comet, far less for other spells. With less resists (from seal) you would even that out, assuming your spell works. Having a necro, coercer or a fury (not sure about others) in the group would bring you far above max int.
    Thing is, the buff that's most usefull to you entirely depends on your playstyle. For raids i'd prefer a skillbonus, for soloing i guess int is more usefull. Just because it's not usefull for you doesnt make it useless for everyone and soe won't (and shouldnt) base their balance on personal wishes. Ofcourse if the spell doesnt work like lockeye says then it's a bug that should be fixed.
  7. ARCHIVED-Ronzul Guest

    First you have to show that 5/50 is a significant increase over the noise level of the data (5 sets of 10 casts would have been more useful than 1 set of 50). In this case I'd be willing to bet that it isn't. And by your math, we only have to find a success rate that is low enough to make our "% increase" seem large. So if the unbuffed rate had been 1/50 and the buffed rate had been 3/50, WOW, a 200% increase! But what does that actually mean? You're still doing almost no damage to the mob.

    Anytime you see something like "% increase", get ready for an example of how to make statistics say what you want them to say.
  8. ARCHIVED-Ronzul Guest

    Oh, and if you want this spell line to be worth casting, then make it work by reducing the target's mitigation, not just outright resist rate. Resist rates in EQ2 are set pretty well, as evidenced by the devs' reluctance to have a buff that has any meaningful effect on them.
  9. ARCHIVED-Stavenham Guest


    Nice to see you and a few others also get that this test doesn't show the reality of using it. It's basically, crap buff, which may help land a nuke every few fights, not some 45% increase in landing spells.
  10. ARCHIVED-Maelwys1 Guest

    yes, i agree.
    Lockeye's test paints a rosy picture... he used one of our lowest spells, against a mob 50 some levels above the initial grant of the spell. And while at red con to the mob, so as to portray a high level of resists.
    Then putting the buff on, there is a noticeable increase in hit percentage.
    Wow, thats an effective buff, isn't it?!
    In reality, due to sony's level band changes, and mitigation, and resist changes recently, a NORMAL group of adventurers will be exp'ing on blue to yellow mobs, where the resist rate is much lower. This results in greater survivability, better exp, and a more satisfying group experience. While at end game, occasionally in instances, and raiding, we will be taking on orange encounters. Our resist rates are STILL pretty minimal, so any decrease to our resist rates are negligable.
    Now, if you get outright resists on 1 out of 50 spells whn fighting more appropriately levelled mobs, and you decrease that by 45%, you will get a resist .55 times out of 50. or just about 1 out of every 100 spells.
    I don't know about you, but i tend to only get off 3 spells or so in a normal encounter. so a buff that takes me approximately 30 encounters to see a single benefit from is not worth spending the concentration on.
    Not to mention wasting a rare, or multiple plat to get it at adept 3, or master where those kinds of resist rate changes actually occur. and i'm certainly not blowing the m2 choice on it when i can choose a spell that i will cast almost every fight.
  11. ARCHIVED-Darkcreator Guest

    Unfortunately SOE sees everything through rose colored glasses instead of through players eyes. They see a 45% increase (even though their math/logic are flawed) and think its useful. I doubt it will change anytime soon.
    I'm sure eventually (6 months down the road) they will see it for what it really is (a piece of doo doo) and do some minor change (unnoticeable) to try and improve the spell.
    So all we have to do is sit tight for the next 6 months to a year and continue using the sorceror buff from 45 levels ago.
  12. ARCHIVED-pharacyde Guest

    Well SoET helps all casters, healers, hybryd classes and mages. So it helps other classes so what ? Realy ...

    Anyway I did some other tests with my level 40 Troub with their buff that buffs caster skills on and off. And resist wise it realy helps. I could hit lvl 46-47 mobs at lvl 40 pretty easily with the buff on. Without the buff I still could hit them, but I would have to retry so many times that I would run oop before the mob would be dead. Later on I took a lower level healer, he was lvl 37. Without the buff he told me he had more fizzles then with the buff. The tank even died once because he fizzled at a bad moment. So my conclusion is, that the buff works for sure.
    Message Edited by pharacyde on 11-10-2005 12:53 AM
  13. ARCHIVED-Darkcreator Guest

    Ya, because as we all know you can survive long enough to go OOP against a mob that is 7 levels higher than you.
    What are you? A compulsive liar?
  14. ARCHIVED-pharacyde Guest

    troubs can chain snare ... and stun for 7sec if teh snare breaks. Anyway call me a liar I know for a fact i can do solo mobs 6-7levels above me with my troub.
  15. ARCHIVED-Marillion Guest

    Great for solo,

    Problem for raiding,

    Orange raid mobs equals dead tank unless you are lucky on the rolls, you'll probably wipe a couple of times tho.

    Raid mobs are immune to stun and snare, so the ability to have those spells resisted less are pointless.

    Bonus to casting stat to hit an orange raid mob, means you will rip first and die first as the tank can't hold agro very well, because they have there taunts resisted so much. Why? because no of our skill bonus' help there taunt ability as its a plain level check.

    Its all okie though, seeing as the loot drops are so poor and few and far between in 60 raid zones it all makes no difference if the spells work or not, you wont get any reward for it yet.
  16. ARCHIVED-VentoCuratio Guest

    Just make it an INT buff. Have been in a lot of groups and I still use my vivid seal for the 10.1 (Hell Yea!)
    Also, I hope that 150 posts in a week and 4k views is enough to spawn a responce.
  17. ARCHIVED-dmitya Guest

    I am still a lvl 53 Warlock so I can't deliver an opinion on whether this works or not. I have a suggestion for method that players can test the spell to get a better range for results than the 50 cast test that everyone is critical of. I will try this myself when I hit 54 but can't promise that I will remember to come back here and post:

    Find yellow/orange mob and chain cast roots on the mob w/ SoET and w/o SoET. Since the spell increases all types not just disruption it should be sufficient to show a correlation with just the root spells being cast. If this issue is of enough importance to have made 7 pages of posting then I imagine one of you will be willing to try it. If you want to add in other spells when casting for a test just make sure that the casting type is the same for all spells used (or the associated skills are all the same)- that is another benefit of just casting roots in addition to not breaking them with other spells: same type.

    I am ashamed that so many of you use these forums to assert the correctness of your personal views on an issue rather than looking at it objectively and cooperating in a real inquiry as to whether the spell has a proper function.

    -Aldebaran