I Hope Karma Comes Knocking

Discussion in 'Tradeskills' started by Almee, May 15, 2019.

  1. Almee Well-Known Member

    On just one of my characters, I have over 60 recipes that require patterns. But after spending several hours harvesting, and turning in Anchorage and Myrist quests, I get quaint little notes that I already have a spell, pattern, recipe, or whatever, so, "(fill in the blank with your favorite expletive) you," is basically the message we get when we don't get a reward.

    Perhaps the good folks at DB aren't aware of the concept of Karma, but it basically says that what goes around comes around to bite you in the butt. If I spend time and effort doing a quest, I expect a useable reward--not one that I have to destroy, because it is no-trade and I already have it, and not one that you won't give me because I already have it.

    Computer programs have the ability to check and see if you already have a one-off item and then select an item you don't have. There is absolutely nothing, but a nasty disposition on the part of a developer, to deny a person a reward after they complete a quest.

    And not giving a reward really bites when a character has 60 recipes without patterns to use or patterns without recipes. With all the possible rewards, you could give, such as a rare or even a house item, it is pretty low for a player to get nothing for their time and effort.

    So I'm hoping those who came up with this idea, of one-off items so there is no reward given, get a taste of their own medicine. Working, for nothing, isn't fun, unless you willingly volunteer your time to help others. Completing a quest should always offer some useful reward, even if we have to sell the item. Not getting a reward, or having to destroy it, because there is nothing else we can do with it, is unacceptable and mean spirited. That is a crazy thing to do when you seriously need to build customer loyalty.
    Gregore, Soara2, Argosunited and 3 others like this.
  2. Blazen Active Member

    Looks like you need a RNG alter next to your computer... This happens on all the games I've played, which has lead players to do a kinds of funny rituals before looting. LOL
    Soara2, Cyrrena, ConcealFate and 3 others like this.
  3. Almee Well-Known Member

    I don't remember this ever happening before. It seems to me we could at least salvage, transmute, share (with others on quest), or sell quest items to NPCs or other players. Now we just get a rock. I don't enjoy CD that much to begin with so for me it is work to go out harvesting on the various planes. Unfortunately, that's the only way I can get the mats to make furniture for my houses.
    Soara2 likes this.
  4. jbc1948 Active Member

    You have 10 tradeskill potions that are one of the possible rewards. 10 is max allowed so if you get another it just looks like no reward. You need to use some whenever you hit 10.
    I always get the other rewards even one I already have.
    Whether you do anything about the 10 potions really doesn't matter. Either you get another id under 10 in your bag or get nothing. It's just plain luck.
    I have never seen any message other than you receive and its blank. No idea how you are getting you already have the item message unless its when you examine whatever you did get.
    Soara2 and Breanna like this.
  5. Almee Well-Known Member

    I use the potions up, since getting the message I already have 10 so tough luck. I think the one I didn't get, today, was either a pattern or recipe. The message appeared and disappeared so fast I can't remember what it said but it appeared when I usually get the reward. I know we sometimes don't get rewards, we already have, from fights. I just don't remember not getting one from a quest or getting one that could only be destroyed from a quest.

    Maybe I've forgotten, if that has happened in the past. I know there are times when I just can't take the stinginess of the game anymore and cancel my subs. I only return when I get sick and can't do anything else. But when I'm well, I'd rather clean house than play as at least I know I'll get a fair reward for my time and effort. There is no RNG determining what I will or won't get so I know my time and effort will pay off unlike playing this game.
    Soara2 likes this.
  6. Eradani Well-Known Member

    i find /em shakes her fist at the gods of the RNG
    works quite well :p
    Jaden, Soara2, ConcealFate and 4 others like this.
  7. Mermut Well-Known Member

    The patterns don't have limits, but some of the recipes are LORE (and 3 use)... the easy solution for those is to scribe and make the items from those recipes as soon as you get them. If they're items you don't want to make/use/sell, just delete the recipe.
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  8. Almee Well-Known Member

    All of the rewards are arbitrary creations that are generally meant to monetize the game in some way. It may be that they think it will make the game more challenging, exciting, or interesting in the hopes of retaining players. Limiting the number of uses, making them lore, or limiting the number you can have is often a way to generate sales of competing items in the Marketplace.

    I get that if a player uses the FTP option, but when I'm paying a sub, I think many of these limits are over-the-top efforts to gouge us for more money and turn the game into a Pay-to-Win game. But maybe I'm overreacting because there seem to be so many of these limits lately plus playing has gotten far more expensive then it was when the game was released. For what I shell out, each month, I should have gold-plated characters rather than tarnished brass.

    It only takes a minute to add a program check to see what a character already has, and select something that the character could use, when coding new content. Giving a useless reward is the same as offering a child a lollipop and then yanking it away and laughing at them. It may not harm them but it is mean spirited and something only a bully would do.

    It may be a good way to manipulate people into a desired behavior (intermittent reinforcement) but it is morally questionable as it can lead to addictive behavior just as gambling does. And that is exactly what game developers count on happening to increase profits. It isn't because they personally want this to happen, rather, they cave to pressures from investors.

    But players are also responsible for this happening because so many have short attention spans and are in constant need of something new and novel. Technological advances have caused all of us to live in a state of constant anxiety which leads to unstable behavior. That, in turn, causes players to switch games as new ones come on the market.

    It can be a nightmare for game developers and investors and only Blizzard seems to be fairly immune to this problem. So I understand why DB resorts to questionable psychological techniques, to monetize the game, but they need to rethink how they are going about it. Blizzard has shown that they can have it both ways with a little finesse.
    Soara2, Rosyposy and Red Adder like this.
  9. Mermut Well-Known Member

    None of the items have anything to do with the Marketplace.. they do seem to be designed to get players to continue to expend status, plat and expac currency. The LORE limited use recipes that are on the TS quests loot table are raid level recipes that take status, plat and currency to buy.
  10. Almee Well-Known Member

    Mermut, they made not have a direct connection to the Marketplace but they are still designed to get players to:

    Buy mercs, in the Marketplace, to covert to status or to get one more powerful than what you have;
    Buy familiars in hopes of getting a more powerful one;
    Buy potions and the raid training monkey;
    Buy a heroic character bundle; and
    Buy and sell Kronos to get plat.

    Take today, for instance. I made two sets of Anchorage runs (8 quests) and got the following:

    2 lore, no trade, no value, no transmute, recipes I already have
    5 patterns of little use
    5 heirloom pattern scrolls I already have
    5 studies (a dime a dozen on the broker)
    1 limited progress potion

    Of all of these, the limited progress potion was the only thing of any real value to me. If I sell the study books I will get 5 plat. The heirloom pattern scrolls are totally unnecessary as it only takes one character, on an account, to make the items. I could sell the 5 patterns but they don't sell for much as they are fairly common unlike the harvest ones.

    I did get chit, for completing the quests, but there isn't much to buy that I don't already have. It's possible that might change in the future. The main reward, for my time and effort, is the extra mats I harvest while doing the quests. And it is possible there are other rewards I'm not aware of.

    So doing the quests is better than just plain harvesting and that is good. But making the quests rewards more useable, by the player, would make the time and effort much more rewarding and get more players involved.

    The Anchorage quests are a great idea but could use a little tweaking to really get non-tradeskill players to want to do them. And even if that wasn't the original goal, of developing the quest line, it is a great way to attract and retain players.
    Soara2 and Red Adder like this.
  11. Mermut Well-Known Member

    I have zero issues keeping my toons (2 of them raid ready and 2 others heroic ready) in gear without buying anything on the marketplace.
    I get plenty of status and plat just playing the game. I don't buy or sell loot rights.
    I don't spend hours in game every day either.
    I do participate in most aspects of the game, however: tradeskill, solo, heroic and raid

    The marketplace is a shortcut.
    Would I prefer less pay to win. Absolutely. There are definitely things you can't get (in a reasonable time frame) without the marketplace (leveling familiars, ascension research, etc).
    The marketplace is not required to be effective, even in raids, however.

    Nothing about the tradeskill rewards even remotely feeds into the marketplace 'extra' power though. Heck, the tradeskill bauble isn't even that useful if you're really interested in tradeskilling and harvesting, as you'll still need/want to do the TS timelines for all the 'goodies'.
    Soara2, Cyrrena, Breanna and 3 others like this.
  12. Almee Well-Known Member

    Perhaps you have a better support system, in this game, than I do, Mermut. I did lots of raids, in other games, and even led them at times. I've even participated in raids, on the IoR server, until people left to go to other servers.

    I'm happy that you are able to participate in all the features EQ2 has to offer though I'm not sure how you find the time unless you belong to a large, active guild. I belong to a 3-person guild of decorators. I was trying to harvest and fight with the few pieces of gear I got, for completing the CD tradeskill timeline, until a couple of days ago.

    It was possible to quest and harvest, in the old gear, but it wasn't any fun and it left me exhausted. Hopefully, that won't be the case anymore.
    Soara2 likes this.
  13. Interstella Member

    I definitely feel the OP's pain but listen. This thread needs to be two sentences long...
    Hey guys and girls on the dev team, It really bums me out when I turn in a quest and don't get a reward (because I already have the item, or a full stack of items). Is there anything you could do about that to help me out?

    Thanks and kind regards,
    Blazen, Soara2, Rosyposy and 6 others like this.
  14. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that will work about as well as us asking for the last six months, "where are the orange adorns for merc accolades you introduced six months ago" are at? That's gotten a lot of attention too. Short and to the point. Response from DGB? Nada. Fixed: nope. If they can't get that done, you think they're gonna fix this regardless of how short the message is, haha.
  15. ConcealFate Well-Known Member

    do any of the decent mischievous patterns ever drop as anchorage rewards or just the useless "3% more to durability" types?
    Cyrrena likes this.
  16. Gregore Active Member

    LOL, It sounds like you didn't get CHIT for your time invested!
    ConcealFate, Rosyposy and Almee like this.
  17. Avithax Well-Known Member

    This is a peeve of mine that somewhat agrees with the spirit of this thread. I have thought long and hard as to WHY the limit is 10 and I cannot think of one, much less one that would result in not getting any reward for a quest.

    I think the only thing that makes less sense as to crafting items is that sneaky "Buy 900" that slips in under the "Buy 1" slot when purchasing recipes from vendors. No confirmation...just BAM you just misclicked yourself out of half your earned currency.
  18. Bludd Well-Known Member

    re crafting pots: just use them when you do crafting for daily anchorage or library ts daily. if you get a reward that is one of those 3 shot potion recipes, craft them while under the influence of the potion

    do PoP tradeskill daily/weekly and you will use these pots because of the long combines.

    if you always keep less than 10, you won't receive "no reward" when completing a quest which gives one.
    Cyrrena and Breanna like this.
  19. Snikkety Well-Known Member

    Hmm I've gotten some duplicates from the Anchorage quests but I don't see why it's an issue. I've gotten every recipe I can from it in 4 days, and the quests reset every like 20 minutes. You're effectively asking for them to make enough items for you to not get duplicates at quests that you can consistently and easily do at 5 minutes apiece, multiple times per day. Yeah, it sucks that there isn't enough content, but it's more than before and frankly this xpac has been the first that I've actually appreciated any tradeskill content, especially with Anchorage and harvesting becoming far more fun.

    In summary, why is this a problem?

    Also, in response to tweaking to make it more attractive to non-tradeskillers, I've managed all my infusing and, I can link if you'd like, about 80% grandmaster or better ascensions with no real life money spent, just a good set of harvesting gear and selling rares to that one guy that I still think is a bot. Anyway, my raid gear is fully infused (to a reasonable extent) with only income from harvesting. Pretty damn attractive to me...
    Cyrrena, Breanna and Dude like this.

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