with the latest changes to fighters(still in test, and not live THANK GOD), an across the board massbeating with the nerf bat, and forcing us all into a cookie cutter....back at launch, a berserker was an offensive tank, with a guardian being the defensive counterpart to that. NOW, tank in def. or die, or your group dies....well, the DPS will at any rate. Why arent we just all being stripped down to being called a fighter, because we sure aren't berserkers. whatever it is we're supposed to be now...I hope you fix our class name accordingly. The real problem, isnt tanks being able to push out a little dps, and gods know, us non-raid geared,and non-top of the line instance geared ones, arent pushing out anything regular over about 3k, unless we hit a group encounter, and pop off open wounds, or some other such aoe mass destruction. A guardian, putting out 10K....what a joke, if they are, they're in some heavy top end raid gear...and WHY shouldnt they be doing that???? if they're putting out that kind of DPS the rest of their raid force is doing DOUBLE!!!!The Taunt modifications with this update on test, GREAT, added hate gain methods, AWESOME, crit taunts, AWESOME....but the rest...is just trash. Forcing all tank types into one "fighter class" cookie cutter mold.So, Aeralik, Sony, Devs, and GMs, and fellow berserkers, I ask you....what pray tell is the point of having a berserker, let along ANY fighter>class>subclass, beyond the latest and greatest "tank fix" thats been cooked up???
Erszebeth@Antonia Bayle wrote: Someone said in another thread that you could now combine the 4 plate tanks into one and no one would miss what was lost. I think that's probably closer to being true now than ever before. IMO it's a "careful what you wish for" scenario. Every plate fighter has asked repeatedly for what the others have. Gradually (and then abruptly with TSO) those wishes have been granted. GU50 alone made for a lot of "vanilla" with the Fighters. This round makes more. There are still differences between us, to be sure. But since we all need the tools to do the same thing, there's more and more vanilla.
Kurgan@Everfrost wrote: Yep I came to the conclusion the other day that the only "real" difference between an SK and a Zerker come this revamp (if it goes live I still pray no) is that Zerkers can dual wield and the particle effects. I do however think it has less to do with players asking for what other tanks had. For the most part the ideas (at least the good ones) were for small little things such as "a little more survivability and an extra snap aggro tool please". This is hardly "asking for what other tanks have." The only thing I can think of now is that this is simply part of the continuing trend to dumb down the game in order to compete with WoW and other games. I have spoken with players who have when they were dismayed that they had trouble holding aggro. I asked them what they were doing and it eithger came down to "well I am throwing my taunts, whats up?" or "what are these taunts you speak of?" They were not learning the class and all of the tools the class had. I have also spoken to sub par dpsers and have been told "casting order whats that?" by mages "what do you mean I should time my autoattacks, how can they be over 50% of my total damage? Isn't that was the Combat arts are for?" by Rangers etc. And I have been told by all of them "you mean it REALLY matters what kind of gear I have? Thats not fair." Well hopefully if tanks aren't doing their medicore dps, the mediocre dpsers will stop complaining along with the paper tanks. This change is not about good players who bothered to learn their class, found what was broken, and asked for it to be fixed. Its about trying to make it so that the people who do not bother to do this (the majority of players) will hopefully be able to do the job they would have failed at in the past and thus make the game more "popular". Its kinda like what I call "The Jeapordy scenario." When that game show first came out the questions were really difficult. The fans didn't like the fact though that 3 egg heads were getting all the money and making them feel stupid while they watched. As time went on the questions got easier and easier. As the questions got easier and the people watching at home could actually answer them, the number of viewers increased. I hope this doesn't go live as is. I love my class and would hate to shelve it. If it does go live I can only hope that the trend ends here though because there are only so many classes that are challenging to play AND that actually appeal to me. I would hate a to see a constant retreat through the different classes until I am finally forced out of the game by what is in essence a dumbing down.
i don't think one plate tank is too far from the truth. with every change we get closer to being the same. for some reason i accept that and at the same time i want to cancel my sub in disgust that the balance has pushed me this far. i can't help but remember a time when i gave up my survivability to do more damage, then i saw guards doing almost identical damage so i asked for my tools to mean something again or to get more tools to help me survive, we got more "tanking tools" because we are tanks and not damage dealers, as time has gone on we become less and less of a berserker. i know people have asked me for advice in the past but to tell the truth, sadly, i have given up on this class because there will never be balance and the berserker has suffered enough. for those who rule the heroic zones, enjoy your time.
With the current state of the tank update, with Guardians doing the same DPS, taunting for 50 % more and having superior survivabilty you really have to wonder what the point is. With Aerilka saying he will only do some "minor" tweaks when they have to rethink the basic ideas of this revamp I'm not very optimistic for the future.
the basic point is it is up to you all what you want to do, we will still be one of the best heroic tanks but as raid offtanks, well, i'll put it bluntly and say SKs need to be nerfed in survivability and dps to put us on an even plane. many will deny that they got bumped above us but i'm fairly sure those who have played with experienced SKs have already seen what they are capable of now. this game has no balance and seemingly never will. being forced to tank in defensive will hinder our class so much that i really don't even want to look at it. zerks have had the hardest time tanking in defensive of any fighter for good reason and those reasons will still exist. while you likely will be able to maintain aggro you still will not be as defensive nor as offensive as a result.
Lyger@Mistmoore wrote: That they force us into tanking in def stance (can live with that) without changing anything at our CA dps (not with that) shows that SOE either has no clue why Beserkers tanked in off stance or they are unwilling to spend the time to fix the class to be able to hold aggro without high autoattack DPS.
a few people have worked out some threat per second reports, figures that to me look pretty accurate. add in our lower auto attack hit rate because of our class issues and lower survivablity and you have a pretty ****tastic class. if the future truly is supposed to be AE vs single target then all tanks should have equal survivability. as things sit, there is too many areas that are out of whack between tanks. they would be better off making one plate tank and one leather tank. i don't want more survivability, i want to deal more dps for that lack of survivability as the term i looked for in a "berserker". had things been balanced in AE and single target content, things would have been ok so to speak with minor tweaks.
Its sad, but true, the more sony "fixes" things, the more and more we all become different brands of vanilla...so, I suppose, if thats how it must be-DEAR GOD DONT LET ME BE WAL-MART BRAND-I'd much rather be Ben and Jerry's More seriously however, originally, zerk=off. tank, but now forced, FORCED into def. we can only hope the Dev's and Aeralik are TRULY reading this, and taking it to heart. I know I hope and pray for it, and fear for my zerker everytime I see a server down time.
We'll just make this like the old Gauntlet game. Barbarian warrior, elf ranger, human mage, and human cleric. Get rid of all the "special" class defining abilities, and put this game into Easy mode. /sarcasm off
Looking over a taunt comparison, I've changed my mind. NO. It's not worth it anymore. We have the lowest TPS on single targets, and are not the best on multiples. We have the lowest Aggression which now is important. It's also safe to assume we're about to have our DPS reduced again (since "Some" fighters are) whenever the next round of changes come, in which case you can consider me gone and I apologize profusely for ever typing anything remotely resembling support for this lump of feces.
Bremer wrote: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=443665 Look over that gem. I was being OPTIMISTIC and we still come out worse than Guardians on 3 targets. Please tell me my math is FUBAR because if Aeralik goes through with FURTHER reducing our DPS in the next Test update I think we're done.
Kurgan@Everfrost wrote: Agreed sir. Which is unfortunate cause I dont enjoy any of my alts even close to as much as my zerker. Plus I've finally shown my guild leader that zerkers are actually useful and get in raids regularly. Woot for gettin nerfed outa all that hard work. le sigh
I still think it's beautifully ironic that we have the lowest Aggression of any Fighter and yet our AA suffix title is..... The Aggressor. (Actually it's "Agressor" because someone can't spell and I'm not in the special "not ignored by developers" group)
I had the same thought ^^ I also think that it quite funny that actually the class named Beserker has the lowest aggression. If you ask 10 people on the street who is more aggressive, Beserker or Paladin, I bet 10 would say Beserker.
Kurgan@Everfrost wrote: Thanks, it's pretty much as I expected. I only made a rough estimate on the single and encounter taunt, as they are the main source of hate. And these calculations don't include that eg Guardians have more aggression (= bigger tautns that land more often), they have more + taunt amount on their TSO set (and their items are easier to get) and they benefit more from the Dirge hate buff, because their base numbers are higher. Considering all these facts there is sadly no other answer for the OP than "There is none"...
heh first to the finish, stopped playing and moved to a different game. i log in once in a blue moon for old friends but the changes coming redefined the class i have played since Jan of 05. I have heard alot of the pople i used to run with say that the changes will be good for them, or their class, IE guards, and heard a paladin cry over the changes to come. Well i made the decision to not wait til we were nerfed into oblivion, i simply stopped, my accounts are active for now, as i am waiting for it to fall, but once it does if my beloved zerker dies, so than do both of my accounts.
its true, with this so-called fix, we're being destroyed as a class, along with several other fighter classes. Brawlers, monks, paladins, zerkers, SK, all being destroyed with this update, YAY we can all be guardians....o wait..I tried that once /wrist.....
anyone remember when to tank was actually a skill? now its just do as much dps as you can to keep aggro. Any old herbert with a myth and some shiny bits of gear can stand there and do sick dps and keep the squishy ones alive. Thats not tanking that just easy mode!! All the fighter classes need to have their DPS dramatically lowered but getting the right solution to still keep aggro needs to be spot on.
