If monks were as good as other tanks, then next to no one would be any other tank class. FD, heal, and tanking as good as a guardian? That's not balance.
Brawlers are good tanks, I dont think they should be dps. I enjoy being able to tank for groups on mine. They may not be a raid tank but they can neither can any of other fighters except guardians. Pallies and Zerkers can offtank in raids. The problem is that the way raids are designed in the game, 24 person limits and encounters that use very little of what fighters as a whole offer. Most raids just bring 3 fighters max, guard MT, an OT, and a brawler for FD related stuff. Really the entire figher archtype except guardians could use a re-work, guardians are really the only class in the fighter archtype that is where is should be and doesnt need a re-work. In fact I personally think they can do to much dps at the high end. Personally I think monks are fine, if I had to choose the fighter classes most in need of love it would be sk then bruiser then zerk/pally then monk, and then guard. Raids can always use at least 1 brawler and that brawler is almost always a monk.
Same arguments again and again. Before posting, people should read this thread first. It's about the role in raid, not heroic contents. Any fighter and scout can tank heroic contents. I am totally disagree with Mogzilla that monk is fine in raid. For crusader, pal is best off tank in the game, especially in high end raids: avatar fights. It's silly to make statement that pal needs more love over other fighters except guardian. For brawler, bruiser has better dps, better tanking capability, especially with mythical, and better aggro control than monk. The only real advantage of monk over bruiser in raid is our raid wide haste. It sucks since our primary role should be tanking/dps, not a buff bot. If SoE really wants to fix monk, they should fix our tanking capability and dps rather than a patch raid wide buff. I am fully support bruisers getting better raid wide buff but at same time, monks need some love in our combat arts. Our CA damage is pathetic comparing to bruiser and our self haste needs to be changed to something useful. Getting 300+ haste in raid is useless.
Stabbath wrote: any dummy with a pocket full of money can tinker a fd item. heal pots are pretty cheap. there are click heal items. a sk can out heal a monk. a scout with vitality breach can out heal a monk.
I think there are very few raidwide AEs in RoK raids. The only reason you'd die while FD is if you FD near people who are running around during the wipe and who get an AE targetted at them. If you are far away from the MT you're doing something wrong. You should be within 20m of him so your avoid buff is in effect. That will help cut down on double attack deaths (there are other ways, but I'm sure you can figure those out). As for who is a better tank, well, I think Peel is still very useful either for recovery when MT goes down or if something gets loose. OK so the monk mythical is only the equivalent of like 5% mit, but with tsuami, peel and our root buff we do pretty good. The only way a bruiser will out dps a scout is if they have better buffs, gear or more skill. Like for like the scout will do better, and in the case of rogues give a whole load of useful debuffs too. It would be nice if bruisers had more appeal for raids, but yeah either way raids will only take 1 brawler. A lot is going to depend on your guild, what they have evolved with, and how it works out. For us, we cleared VP with guard, guard, pally, monk (me). We had a bruiser, but he left some time ago and we just didn't need to replace him.
I didn't read the whole thread (sorry =-/ ) but I just wanna add my 2cp. Please, please don't change monks to pure DPS. I don't raid with my monk so I guess that means my opinion doesn't count, but seriously I play the glass because it's a blast to solo and I can tank heroics very well. I put money and AAs into my taunts, and I'm fairly satisfied with my ability to hold aggro (not so much on multi-mobs but I knew that coming in) and I love my little utilities like FD, heal and fear, plus some of the AAs rule. Again, don't flame me with "zomg ur not 80 and u don't raid **** l2p nub!", but I really like the way the class is so far. Plus changing you to pure DPS would really shoot you in the foot as other have pointed out. There are so many scouts and mages that do nothing but DPS, do you really want to be lumped in with them? Keep your identity and keep your existing (albeit limited) raid utility. Monks are in our raids all the time. Yes, I think it's screwed up that guardians out parse you in raids. Heck, they out parse my Trouby(raid main) in instances sometimes. Brawlers should have the highest single target DPS of any fighters. I don't know when or why we strayed from that model, but I'm all for them taking down guard DPS or buffing yours, or some of both. But please, don't make Monks just another DPS class. I like them the way they are just fine.
Ofaelol@Kithicor wrote: agreed, I love being able to tank for groups on my bruiser, if I wanted to play a dps class I would have rolled a scout or mage.
Couching@Crushbone wrote: Actions speak louder then words, despite all your crying about how horrible monks are (despite the fact that out of the 6 fighter classes they are number 2 in population at 80 behind guards) if you really felt that bruisers were so much more superior you would have betrayed. Your post are just a bunch of crying and noise. If bruiser were so much better then you have betrayed. The two classes are so simliar there would be no reason to not betray. Bruisers solo a bit easier, monks are more raid/group friendly. I picked bruiser so I could solo a bit easier and will probably betray if I need to later on for the haste buff and other group goodies monks get. If the bruiser is so uber just betray. Apparantly most dont agree with you as there is a considerably greater number of 80 monks then 80 bruisers, but knock yourself out.
Mogzilla wrote: I said it very clear, monk is the only class I am interested to play. By your logic, since there are still zerker and sk who didn't betray to guardian and pal, zerker and sk didn't need help since there are still zerker and sk who refuse to betray. Dude, you can cry more. Come back when you get your mythical.
Couching@Crushbone wrote: The fact that I dont have my mythical is irrelevent. Just becase you have your mythical it doesnt automatically make your opinion better then mine. Your analogy about zerks/sk betraying to guard/pally is a poor one because there are far more guards/pallies then zerks/sk's. However there is considerably more monks then bruisers. So yes that does indicate that the zerk/sk classes are having problems. Toons at 80 all severs from eqplayers: Bruiser 1681, Monk 1991 = 18.5% more monks the bruisers Zerk 1904 ,Guard 2699 = 41% more guards then zerks (we all know guards are overpowered) Pally 1834 / SK 1691 = 8.5% more paladins then SK's As you can see from your arguement a case can be made that zerks and Sk's need some loving as they their counterparts are more played. But you cant make that argument for monk/bruisers. Why is it that if bruisers were so much better then monks, monks have a 20% higher player population and bruiser is the least played of all the fighter classes? I guess its just a big secret and only you know about the supposed "uberness" of the bruiser class Lol, you wont betray because you know monks are better for raids then bruisers are. Enough of the silliness.
Mogzilla wrote: Making judgment of something you don't know is dumb. Making assumption that people have to betray to a better class is even dumber. You can keep crying and making assumption that I didn't betray to bruiser is because monk is better. I don't give it a **** how uberness other class is, the only class I will play in eq1 to eq2 is monk. That's it.
Couching@Crushbone wrote: The difference between monk/bruiser core abilities are so slight there really is very little difference between the classes except the monk haste buff owns, monks get grp FD, and a targetable heal. Bruisers CA do slightly more damage, the heal is slightly better but self only, and they might have slightly more mitigation. The main differences between monks bruisers is bruisers are more solo oriented, monks group/raid. The class defining ability of both is the same, FD is the same. Sk's and Paladins are very different from another, same with guards and zerks. You can deny it all you want, but the only reason you wont betray your monk is because you know they are better in raids but you just wont own up to it. Bascially your argument is that monks should have the damage of brusiers, but with much better utility and buffs. Deny it all you want, actions & numbers speak louder then words. When there is a mass defection of that 20% greater number of monks to a plus 20% of brusiers (a 40% swing) and you betray your monk to bruiser then we can talk. Until then you are just a bunch of hot air who wants his class to be good at everything.
Mogzilla wrote: Bruiser owned monk in every aspect in KoS and EoF. By your logic, I should betray to bruiser but I didn't. How hard to understand that not everyone is willing to betray to different class no matter how similar they are? By my post, monk has better raid wide buff because bruiser has better dps and better tanking. If bruiser wants to get better raid wide buff, monk needs better in dps and tanking for balance issue. Also, Aeralik slapped your face due to your idiotic logic. "Numbers have nothing to do with anything. Rangers are one of the most popular classes but had some issues so we gave them some attention. Coercers on the other hand have far fewer numbers but the reason I paid some attention to them is because our data showed they were way out of place compared to illusionists and other mages. Different playstyles will always attract different types and numbers of people so its not something I use when determining what to look at. In the short term I don't see any massive changes coming along that are as big as the coercers or rangers but that doesnt mean the issue is being ignored either for the longer term." Every class has its own issue but it's nothing to do with numbers. Please stop crying and trolling in monk forum. You want to troll? Go back to where you belong.
Mogzilla wrote: Im sorry but your information presented here is irrelevant as most of your posts have been so far. You dont posses .000001 of the knowldege of couching about this game. Your arguements are meager at best .. plz try again in another class forum k thnxs.
