I noticed that on single target i do quite well, but on several ones warlock and wizzie win with a very large margin. I use souburn whenever i can (after my spell that increase damage), and I prepare my lifeburns (2 hps bufs ... if i still have stones available) and try to use my Aerd card and dragon self dmg buf. On several target it also seems to me that conjurers do also better (but only a bit better) we don't have planar desctruction. Our open point blank aoe (life drain) is far from being great, our disease green aoe is not very impressive either and super slow to cast. I tried all our dumb pet, they do much much less than conjurer ones. Vampirism seems a vaste of time. Last "pseudo-raid" I did almost the same damage that our conjurer, his gear is may be a bit higher. BUT i used soulburn twice more than him , and lifeburn was 8% of my damage and he never used manaburn. So i wonder if i should right spec, raiding necros told me that double conversion + a bit on the left to get the "rotting spell" was indeed better. I wonder what is our class for if we are marginaly better on single target and do twice less than pure mages (ie non pet) on aoe encouter ? Sure I did like 6-7 rez during the raid, including a priest that rezzed 4 other peoples. But this is marginally usefull since dirge are usually doing that job in more organized groups. Why would you pick a necro if she does 1,1 what pure mage do on ST and 1/2 on multiples ?
If you are losing by such a wide margin you are pretty much doing something wrong. They are either 1) considerably better geared then you, and/or 2) much better at this game than you are. Necro's are very competitive. As a matter of fact, I cant recall a time in the history of the game where the mage dps classes haven't been as balanced as they are now. You need to better research how to play your class because whatever you are doing, it isn't right
Would help if you posted the name of the necro so people can check gear and AAs. But alot of what you write is so wrong to start with. Dumbfires are awesome, but you need to time them so they are up just before TW goes up. And use clickies just before them. And then keep them on cooldown as soon as they are back up so they are up for next warp. Same goes for Rot Flesh. First thing to cast after warp have landed. Conjies dont have manaburn. Thats a wizardspell thats used as a filler atm since they have better stuff. Pandemic is great for 2+ linked encounters, never cast it on single target. Soulburn aren´t effected by potency/CB so dont cast it while you have temps running.
It's not only her, we conj/necro got owned on large packs by mages by a factor close to 2. It's my alt number 6 so surely i can improve but i fail to do really well on open aoe. Here she is : http://u.eq2wire.com/soe/character_detail/1297080939367 She was fully right spell but some necro adviced me to get a double conversion and a self rez. Indeed the self rez is handy and more than once i rezzed my priest.
I think I was in that raid yesterday (Raid Alliance - Lord Vyemm) so I can comment on the parse and the issues. The raid setup was far from optimal. A lot of players were on alts + aggro management was awful mostly because OT's were in timeline gear or worst...Should have never happened...So were a lot of people (DPS + Buff). You also compare your DPS to people who were there with their mains who have played the whole expac and have access to the best gear they can get. So they have better gear, better comprehension of the class, etc. On ST fight, it seems that you are 1M short from the top dpser, I don't think there is really a problem. Just a difference on stuff (jewelery) and probably skills (main vs alt 6). Also, i'm not a necro expert (my necro is also my alt x) but the lack of blue / green AoE is not the end of the world. You can apply your dots on multiple targets if you target them yourself (and not just assist).
Well there will always be a difference to sorcerers in similar gear on aoe fights, its just about how the classes works. But i dont have a problem competing on single target fights or on linked fights. And what i can see from the gear you most likely raid AS and maybe fabled labs, in those zones a sorc will have full increments at the start of any named fight which gives them another edge. Both me and the conjy in my guild compete well with sorcs and predators on fights that arent aoe heavy. Also seems you rely to much on lifeburn, its not a priority anymore, i get more return to not use max hp gear and go for melee stats instead. Also on short fights the conjy get the advantage of maybe having a blast reset which means he can spike pretty good. And if you compare your dps of x alt with people on mains in better gear then its not really a fair comparison.
Necros are amazing. You get some strong debuffs that make up for what should be only marginal differences in DPS. Unlinked sets of mobs you will lose. Your blues are bad. Linked sets of mobs, you will most likely win. Dat awakened grave. Keep in mind, huge amounts of your parse are based on group setup. Maybe even more significant than the gear you're wearing.
The only thing you seem to have been correct with that part of your post is the "considerably better geared" bit. Other than that, you are off on some generalized assumptions and clearly not thinking about some other important factors like group set-up, buffs (who got them, who didn't), etc... Playing the "You don't know how to play" card is so Flames and not at all constructive. It's pretty apparent OP is troubled by the gap of DPS in AOE-based fights between summoners and sorcerers; that is something summoners just have to deal with in many respects.
A necro is also my newest alt. I was pleasantly surprised at the ST dps I can put out on it. I'd have to say I do parse at least a bit higher for an average single target fight on the necro than I do on my lock. There is no question that I do a huge amount more dps on the lock for a large trash fight or group encounters though. Both characters are in heroic gear with no raid jewelry. I haven't compared zw parses between the lock and the necro but even that could be problematic depending upon group makeup. I'd think I would come out a bit ahead on the lock zonewide for most instances. We haven't had a regular necro for a while in our casual raid alliance but our top dps is typically either a wizard or a conjurer and they will trade off one fight to the next. After reviewing another thread a few weeks back, one way that I'm trying to compensate for poor performance (that sounds wrong) on AE fights with the necro is by pushing my auto attack AE up to 100. I'm in the mid 80s now. In general, I've found you are giving up substantial "free" dps if you neglect your focus weapon stats. 600 dps, mid 100s haste and MA is what I shoot for on all my casters and now on the necro also pushing the AE stat too. It has definitely helped some although I will never keep up with my lock on the larger groups. Other more experienced necromancers may say I'm being an idiot and I'd gladly take their pointers too. From reviewing parses (on flames) and chatter I get the impression that both sorcerers will pull away from the summoners in either type of encounter when higher tier jewelry from raiding and buffs is accounted for. Not sure why other than maybe the increment spike damage from wizard/warlock can be crazy high when timed right with group buffs and the absurd levels of potency/CB/etc. that hardcore raiders reach in combat.
Necros are pretty much on par with other mages except on blue AOE, where they don't really stand a chance against sorcerers. Pretty much all you can do is Awakened Grave (which is about 10m AOE from target of spell) and cycle bloodcoil on targets. Bloodcloud sucks compared to just about any other mage's AOEs and Theurgist's Detonation is pretty good but long recast, Pestilent Soul (Siphoning of Souls spell) is pretty good but getting the charges for it is extremely inconsistent. Vampirism is decent but long recast and suffers from not being able to double cast. Encounters are much better than AOE because of pandemic, which is amazing, and the pet has a lot of encounter abilities. Basically, Warlocks are the only ones who you don't really stand a chance against, although this pretty much applies to all the mages. Warlocks excel on all types of encounters, AOE, single, and encounter. However, necros are much easier to play while warlocks have like 2X the number of damage spells to cast, so finding a warlock that actually knows how to maximize DPS is much harder than finding a necro that needs to cast only a handful of spells to get pretty much all a necro has to offer. Although I would have to say that Focused Casting is probably the main reason for this. If it weren't for that spell, Warlocks would be more on par with all the other mages. However they would still be good on AOE/encounter (as they should be), but not as far ahead, and probably not as strong on single target. IMO, all DPS classes should have a temp buff similar to Focused Casting.
I agree with this. Don't remotely agree with this. Buff, spell or ability envy happens every expansion where one ability is deemed OP and to say it would be nice for every class to have such and such. Its funny but why hasn't Sanguine Sacrifice not been on your radar it adds 1.5 % pot for int. its a temp buff that lasts for a minute not just 10 seconds. it adds significant amounts of potency. Locks are better than neco's on most AOE fights because: They are the true AOE class and have spells and stuff that makes them dps more. Two Ability mod in large amounts is still effecting our best spell rotation. While non sorcerer's cap out on a majority of their spells. Three being the focus of locks for CB over the other mage dps classes that choose potency. But really Focus Casting is only just 75 cb with the ever increasing charm clickies, and uplifting gear POT and CB its not that hard to get and the amount of other buffs from the raid or grp actually makes significantly more difference to the spiking of both CB and pot. When FC added CB it became more apparent for warlock's to focus their gear, aa and white and purple adornments towards CB as potency was far easyier to obtain. I believe in general warlocks have more CB than most other dps mage classes with the same level of gear if specced right. What's more, the ability to obtain solid amounts of amod timed with spiked pot and CB both toxic assault and Caustic detonation (180 inc) hit for significantly more damage, add the instant cast of Rift, Apocalypes with chains and PB the "spell rotation" during TW is the majority of the parse and the fillers in between is to get toxic or caustic to max increments. What makes or breaks the loc on dps is the ability to time all your clickes, dumb fire pets with increment management and TW. ON fights like commander or even MO depending on how long the guild takes to kill. FC becomes less and less relivant as its up only every 2 1/2 minutes. What is more important is how well your AoE rotation is so you can cast Max inc Caustic Detonation as many times between TW and the refreshing of you clickes. . Let alone even talking about Enternal damnation and its effect on the parse. So no FC is not the be and end all of the loc not even casting it will still leave the necro's in the dirt on AOE fights. I
Yeah it's my general feeling. - I put point in theurgist detonation to have one more open aoe. - I also agree that in raid stones are a big issue. May be on raid mob we could get stone each 25% ? Also tabbing to apply my main dot is messy, first i loose time, second i may misstarget something.
I said without FC they wouldn't be as good on single target (making them more on par with other mages), while still good at encounter/AOE as they should be. Thus they would still be the best against multiple targets rather than ALL types, which is ridiculous for one class to be the king of all encounters. The reason why FC is so insane is because it doesn't have to last long for increments (or the other big hitters like PB, Apoc, and Chains), so 10 seconds is more than enough. The whole idea of increments is to focus a ton of damage in a short amount of time after building it up. With FC, it takes that idea to an insane level. Look at the difference between Wiz increment damage versus Warlock increment damage. You can easily hit 100 mil+ Toxic Assaults depending on your gear/raid. Plus FC is so much easier to use than fiery blast or lifeburn. And FC is not only 75 CB! It is 75% of your base CB, which is incredible, especially since it amplifies charms like Growing Criticals and Salvo by 75%, giving you several hundred more than you would have otherwise. And while FC is "supposed to be" up only every 2 1/2 minutes, with the prestige resets it is up much more than that, even more than fiery blast or lifeburn. And I'm not focusing on Sanguine Sacrifice because Wizards get it too. Although I definitely wish summoners had better choices for their heroic tree. All of the Sorcerer choices are pretty sweet (Thunderclap, Chains, Mystical Field, Sanguine Sacrifice, Mystical Overflow are all amazing), whereas summoners pretty much only get Soulburn. Warlocks are more difficult to play than necros imo, but if you know how to calculate efficient rotations, it's not hard to maximize the DPS of any class. I used to raid on my necro, and then I transferred all his gear to my warlock, who I had just betrayed from a wizard, so I had very little experience with warlocks (although I had calculated an efficient rotation). On the first raid I was already outparsing my necro... And it's not like my necro's DPS was horrible either. If other mages had a similar temp to FC, I'm pretty sure single target would be more contested as far as top DPS. And my main is a warlock now, so it's not really envy... I just think it would be nice if other DPS classes stood a chance.
My issue was not the parse ABSOLUTE numbers, we both did quite fine on ST encounters unless we died due to puller doing something wrong -- according to our gear --. Especilly considering that other mages had some illusionnist. But on pack of unlinked trash we (especially me) were not competitive. If we are ST specialists we should really own single target dps by a large margin, and this won't be fair since raid encounters are often ST. So i do think that we should be more competitive on unlinked targets. Necros too miss combinations, no increment (except on right prestige but i tested out and even with full increment it sucks) we do have lifeburn sequence, but we need stones to get it done properly. Currently my warden would possibly win over my necro on large pack of trash, simply with 600 dps/200MA/200+ haste and 100% ZE. But honestly i don't want to gear my mage like that, for a warden it's still make some sense but for a mage ;-) In HKC it's exactly the same, on trash even bards may own me, on named I do fine.
Yeah I accept that FC increases 75% to your base but Warlocks are not king of the DPS sure they can be solid on most encounters but are not untouchable far from it Just look at the tops DPSers of the top 10 guilds its not warlocks domination. in fact what Rockefeller said is so true! FC is just one of many variables, next expansion there will be another mage class that may be considered more solid and the flavour of the expansion. ' locks are solid but not monsters,
Well they aren't monsters or untouchable, since luck and mistakes can mess up your parse and allow other mages to pull ahead, especially if everything lines up perfectly for them. However, the potential for what they can achieve is greater than all the mages on all types of encounters, except maybe conjurors since I do not have much experience with them. So sure, they may not be absolutely destroying on the single target parse, and the numbers are still relatively close, but I think it's a bit unfair that one class has so much potential for any encounter. And I don't want them nerfed; I didn't ask for FC to be taken away, just give other mages/dps a similar temp. I'm pretty sure if my necro had FC, I could probably do just about the same or better DPS on single target and encounter, although AOE would still go to sorcerers.
What is the point of making ever class the same? I enjoy the difference to each mage class. I agree that probably the lessor skilled conjy or necro has to work more to complete at the moment in raids esp AOE encounters and in fact probably cant (necro). But the gap between classes is not as wide in the past. Classes are close enough these days so that skill and ability and knowledge of the player makes a difference and can be shown on the parse. When a conjy in a top 10 raid guild can dominates the parse is a good thing or where wizards in other guilds just shine. But I do agree that a average played sorcerer will do more dps in raid compared to the same skilled summoner in similar conditions and I'm not that upset about it because having raided and played a conjy for a few years they get so much more than what the sorcerer class has and are still less buff reliant to parse well. my 2 cents.
I'm not asking for them to be the same. They all have their own play styles, but they all serve the purpose of DPS, so they should have similar capabilities to achieve that. Some may be more effective on some types of fights and that's fine. And I was asking for a similar buff to FC, so not all classes would get that same exact temp (just said if my necro had it there probably wouldn't be a gap in DPS except on AOE). But it would essentially serve the purpose of giving a strong temporary buff on a relatively long recast. So maybe a wiz could get more base potency, a summoner could transfer or siphon a large portion of their pet's stats to temporarily make them or their pets much stronger while making the other weaker, a scout could get something like weapon damage bonus or double combat arts, to give some examples.
I don't want each class the same level of dps I want each class to have its benefits and its negatives that's the whole point of a class. I don't want bland x over bland y. The classes are not totally balance but they are close. Next expansion we will see things change yet again. At the moment in your opinion warlocks are top dog well that's that! Next expansion it could well be necros or even the illy (based on what I have heard their new ability is going to be). and we don't really have to wait that long to see.
Did you have a Brigand/Swash in raid?. What about a Sin. What sort of group were you in. Did you time TW accordingly?. How long was the fight. How many bards did you have, were they using their debuffs properly?. Was the entire raid debuffing properly?. Anyone in the raid have any + x1.25% more dmg incoming to mobs?. There are so many factors that you can't just "break it down". We could have the EXACT same 24 people on the EXACT same mob. The times/parses will be completely different. Debuffs are a HUGE factor. Along with group utility.
