How are you people leveling so fast?!

Just as an update on our leveling. We continued to level at a good and moderate pace until 84 were we just hit a wall. We continued Seb till our eyes bled and got to 85.

At this point we tried going to kael now that it has been opened up, but we sdimply did not have the gear available to us at level 85 to be successful there. I don't believe kael is useful pre 90 unless you are power leveling. You simply can not overcome the crit requirements in pre 90 gear.

If Kael is to be used as leveling grounds for 85 to 90, then the critical avoidance needs to be removed from the zone. I can only hope someone from SoE is still reading this thread as I think this was a 'miss' when the level ranges were changed for the zone. If critical avoidance was removed we would have been OK there.

As a result, we abandoned leveling these toons. We switched to BGs instead and decided we will just leave our trio level locked for lower tier pvp pwnage.

The dumbing-down is a large part of the reason I want to change the consciousness of players who, in my mind, are really not into playing MMO"RP"Gs anyway, from coming into the kind of game that like to play as is and ruining it. It isn't helpful to throw up your hands and say "It's boring so we should just let everyone rush through as fast as possible". And, whether or not you enjoy soloing isn't part of the issue - what IS part of the issue is not developing for it in interesting ways. Soloing should be just as challenging and fulfilling as any other way to play the game, and it isn't as challenging in any MMOG I've ever played - but this is a developer/publisher problem as much as it is a player problem, in my opinion.

But having an attitude that "leveling is boring" from the first day you set foot in the game is the wrong way to think about a game like EQII, and I'm afraid the devs will try even harder to cater to that kind of thinking. I'm not just speaking to the OP here, but to the devs as well, when I say rushing through an MMORPG is like taking the chocolate bits out of chocolate chip ice cream - and pointing out by doing so that you could have bought some other kind of ice cream to begin with .

I get that leveling up your 5th or 10th alt tends to be boring, and maybe there should be some bonuses for people leveling alts, but your first run through shouldn't be a rush to get to cap, and there is plenty to do to keep you from repeating content ad nauseum in this game in your first go through. In my opinion, if you aren't enjoying leveling the first time in EQII then you either aren't really interested in playing an MMORPG, or, more likely, you just need to lose the attitude that rushing though everything is the way to go. (It's hard in our hurry-up world, I know, I get caught up in it too.) Again, though, boring leveling is part of the consciousness of the dev team and not catering to making leveling alts an interesting thing for veteran players. For example, leveling up a Shadowknight should not feel like running through the same old stuff you did on your Necromancer, there should be quest chains to follow that your Shadowknight does that you didn't do on your Necromancer, and vice versa. This won't effect the entire experience, but it will go a long way to keeping it fresh.

There is less and less focus in MMOGs on the journey and more and more focus on the so-called end game, and that's a shame, in my opinion. Back in the original days of EQ, when you could actually lose levels and I was struggling at level 40 to keep from doing so - I ENJOYED having to struggle to level up. A lot of people hated that and I'm certainly wiling to flex some to keep the majority happy - but not so much it is at the expense of a game that wasn't designed that way to begin with. EQII started out catering to more of that kind of person, and I thought it was enough at the time, but now, it's getting close to being too much. This game isn't WoW and it shouldn't try to be WoW - if I want to play that way, that's the game I'll play, not EQII, and you can't out-WoW World of Warcraft. It's a bad way to try to compete (as every WoW clone to date has proven).

And, WoW started out having a relatively fast leveling path and is now even faster and a bigger snooze all the way through - including instance content and raid content. If you think this will only effect solo play you are very much mistaken, it can and will get far worse and turn the whole game into a snooze-fest if players don't clamp down hard on it.

I think when you get 10+max lvl/aa toons you should be able to instantly lvl/aa all your alts......j/k...well kinda kidding. It is boring to lvl/be pl'd from a low lvl to a high lvl even with pots and vet bonus. it would be kinda nice to get bump to say 80 or 85 with 200ish aa....still some time to learn your class(which if you have 10+ alts you kinda understand already). and it's not just giving us the max lvl/aa either. there will still be a little work involved.

What I have seen is when people ask to be PL and they don't get a response, they then get nasty as if it is everyone's obligation to PL them. It's the same with healers. I'll see people bash healers right and left in chat and then call out for a healer and get mad when no one answers up. Gosh, cannot imagine why that would be.

What would you think if I went on the forums of a FPS game and said "This game sucks because it has no leveling. My character just stays the same form start to finish!"

Sounds pretty crazy, right?

Yet, that's what has been happening to MMORPGs. People that don't want to level are coming into games in which leveling is a major part of the game play and saying they should have the right to bypass or at least accelerate it so they can get it over and done with. And, frankly, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it if it only effected those people, but it doesn't; the developers react to it because they understand that allowing for "casual" players brings in more money, and change the game to suit THEM. This results in a watered-down version of the experience I want.

So, I'll turn your question around on you - who are you to say that I shouldn't get to play Everquest II the way it was originally intended? What would you say if your favorite FPS game suddenly required you to level to play it?

What would you say if you ordered Rocky Road at your local Baskin-Robbins, and they scooped out this concoction made with vanilla ice cream? When you complain, they say "Well, we sell more of it with vanilla, so we switched." Would you say "Cool, I'll just take it the way it is, because Baskin-Robbins makes more money and so that makes it okay"? Or would you say "I feel ripped off and I want my chocolate based Rocky Road the way I used to get it!"

Some developers are working on MMOs that they are referring to as "MMOFPS" games, or "MMORTS", and I think that is absolutely fantastic because I believe that's what many of the self-labeled casual players actually want (I actually suggested this on MMORPG.com several years ago). There is no pretense of role-play in those games, leveling isn't an issue because, well, they are FPS games. I think this will help devs and players keep the true MMORPG from being diluted to the point it is a shadow of one. The thing we all want is a wide-open universe in which we can join with others, if we want, in a more fulfilling way than 4-player co-op, but the problem is that your kind of play and my kind of play ultimately don't mix in the same game.

So, yes, please play the way you want to, I'm all for that, but have some sense of respect for what EQII was and is. As it is, MMORPGs are becoming MMOGs with a bunch of players that can't get along, so they give up on grouping or don't even try to group, and avoid guilds like the proverbial plague. I don't want to join a guild because invariably there will be that guy calling himself "Dudewithsword" or something else I find obnoxious, you don't want to join a guild because you don't want to hear my viewpoint, and if you have a character with a non-RP name, you just don't want to hear about it.

I feel for the "casual" player, because at this point in time there is no place for you to go to get an MMOG experience without running into the "RP" and leveling issues. Certainly the up side to the problem is that developers are trying to give you a place to come play in an MMOG - but they need to find a way to do it that doesn't cause people like me to leave the genre entirely.

Truthfully, I think the EQ devs have done a pretty good job balancing things out, and I don't feel like my experience is entirely ruined in this game. However, I've been a long-time World of Warcraft player and that game has gone way too far, for me, and I'm seriously concerned that SOE devs will do like pretty much everyone else has done and make their games the WoW way.

I'm expecting EQ Next to be a fantastic game that I don't want to play because it leaves the kind of experience I want on the cutting room floor.

World of Warcraft used to be a great game, it has just gone too far for people like me. And, we might be in the minority, but there are still a lot of us - WoW has lost 4 million players from its peak, and while we can't say for sure why that is, I think there is strong evidence from the amount of discussion about it that many of the people that left think the same way I do. I think WoW is still a good game, it's just less of the kind of game I want to play.

I'm just afraid of it going too far. I'm not trying to make anyone wrong here, I'm just saying please, please don't change the game into something I don't want to play, and if you are of the more casual type that doesn't like to level much, then please understand that you DO effect my game play, and I have just as much a right to play this game the way I want as you do - really, more so, because I want to play the game the way it was MADE, and you want to change it into something else.

This was suggested awhile back in the form of "Would you guys like a token that automatically max leveled a character" available either via SC or as a Veteran reward, and was met with a resounding NO by the player base.

I don't want to have a fully leveled character available to me. However a boost isn't untoward (like the Steward AA token), or being able to start 2 characters at level 60..maybe.

The boost is already available. Veteran xp bonus of 200% for 10 toons at max level.

That's what I said The thing everyone said no to was insta-max level with max AA.

Which makes sense...Hey, I just beta buffed to 95. Can I group with you to learn what my spells/abilities are?

/shudder.

I'm still running on my inq and still not 95. 9 months now

(9 months VS 3.5 days)

vs 3.5 days for what?

79x faster than me.

Not everyone said NO by any stretch of the imagination. You'll find a lot of support for being able to start alts at the beginning of max tier.

84-90 is the worst grind in the game. IF you have a Tank and DPS to drag you through Kael, that is your best bet. If not, sadly Dungeon Maker is the best XP your going to get at that level range. With Pots I was getting on average 1/3 level per run which takes about 10-15 minutes. It's painfully boring but still faster than doing level appropriate quests. Added bonus of a free flying mount with the insane amount of dungeon marks you'll have.

Once you hit 90 the world opens up. New tier of gear, and you can do Kael and SS with relative ease. at 92, you can hit ST Contested for the best XP. If you still have AA to grind at 92, you'll get about 1 per kill in there with a decent potion.

And who are you to tell other people that they can't PL their toons or level quickly if they want to? You don't pay for my subscription, and you certainly aren't the one doing tedious things to get my characters raid ready so I can do something in this game I enjoy: Raiding. So what if I want to PL a dirge during double exp weekend? How does that affect you?

It doesn't. At all. You want to change the general "consciousness" of MMORPGing? Go develop your own MMO. Don't try to ruin other peoples' fun by what you consider "right."

Where did I say that someone with 5 level capped alts should run through the game without any kind of power leveling or taking advantage of a double-experience weekend?

You might want to read my other posts in this thread, because I in fact said the opposite about those leveling alts. I'm talking about people who come to the game new and want it to change to suit themselves, without any acknowledgement of how the changes they want will effect the people that are veteran players and like the game the way it is.

Why the rush? What is so all powerful important about getting to 95? So you can run the same zones over and over and over and over again?? BORINGGGGGGGGGGGGG.. Raiding? Big deal same thing, raid the same zones over and over and over again.

So..............why the rush or you just like being boring?

Generally, I can get from 1-95 with max AA in a regular 3 day period.(Powerleveled, Non double XP weekend). This is due to the fact that I have 200% Veteran bonus from max level toons, having over 30 110% EXP pots in /claim, Vitality potions from /claim, and Orb of Concentrated Memories(More Vitality).

Leveling in this game is faster than another MMO I've played.

If you don't want to solo, then find an active guild. I'm on one of the least active servers and am still in an active guild that runs groups every day. Someone suggested running player dungeons, which is a great idea, as it doesn't suffer from the severe imbalances that the mentoring system does. A well-geared Lv 20 with upgraded skills can still contribute significantly grouped up with a Lv 95.

I have never used an experience potion on any of my 9 toons. Quite frankly, I've never seen the need. And as far as raising alts goes, that's why the max level bonuses are there. You get xp bonuses for max level tradeskillers, too, which is even easier to get to Lv 95.

But word to the wise - if this is your first time playing through, don't be a hurry to reach the end. Some of the best content in this game is not at the endgame, and it's a lot more enjoyable at the right level than mentored down to it.