TwistedFaith wrote: 1. Nothing you can do about that. Make friends with an Enchanter or a mythical'd Mystic, that's about the best you can do. Berserkers go thru their power pool fast, especially if you use Adrenaline a lot. Just something you have to learn to deal with. One thing I do is adorn my offhander with a Smoldering Phantom Handle, which is a power proc. I also use lots of "Spirit Totem of the Goblin" to help with out-of-combat regen. And remember to adorn your cloak with a "Smoldering Metaphysical Lining", which provides a tiny amount of in-combat power regen (which is better than nothing). 2. Tier 2 armor is sufficient for non-raid tanking. I know it doesn't seem like much, but that extra +10 crit mit or so that T2 armor provides over T1 is worth it just enough to keep you from getting slapped around too hard. The only way to get more crit mit than that is to run raid zones (Ward of Elements drops T3 set pieces, and TSO x4 zones drop T4 set pieces). 3. For non-raid gear, your DA is good but your MC is very low. Need to get your MC as high as possible. But try not to sacrifice your DA in the process. 4. That's the way I tank, and it's quite effective. Don't waste points on your Offense Stance AA, there's much better things to get.
To my knowledge and if i can find them I have screens of mobs criting before TSO.. which leads me to believe that they only increased the raid mobs crit mods so you would need crit mitigation. Cheap ploy to add more depth or another stat requirement for gear. We will see if this carries over to the next expansion. Wardens also have an Endline TSO ablitiy to increase crit mit by 15% when maxed. Keep in mind we do the majority of our dmg from are AutoAttack 50-60% my DPS tends to be Autoattack. so DA is more important that Crit atm. However when the change to crit stats on items goes to a coeffient styled stat you will want more crit for taunt crit. Zerkers should tank DW in Ostance as much as possible. once you get your Avoid to around 40% based before dirge/templar etc you can just spam your Defensive Temp buffs. Which should bring you to around 50% or more depending on your def/parry stats. Xalmat and I tend to play the zerker the same minus some minor details. As a zerker if your not charging groups of mobs, making healers cry, and constantly being a terror to every scout you see.. I dont think your doing your job... oh and bards arent scouts they are bards, idc what sony says they need to rethink so dumb ideas they have had for classes. Specifically Combine the 2 brawlers and give us all BL... sorry I wild tangent. LOL the filter will not allow you to spell out the class name On a side note does anything believe the outleveling gear idea will actually stick this time? I have my doubts -sam
Samous@Crushbone wrote: The only one that did to my recollection is Phara Dar in VP, and it was actually a bug that was fixed. Mobs didn't actually start critting properly until TSO. Even then non-raid mobs don't have a very large crit mod. Pretty sure when Sentinel's Fate comes around Crit Mit will still be a requirement.
Xaax wrote: Alas, the expansion is still seven months away. Gear upgrades will help you right now, and gear upgrades now will also help you out later.
Xalmat wrote: OK what would you suggest in terms of the shadow tree for a group only zerker. At the moment I have the following: 0-0-0-5-5-0-0-0 (Health and Mount speed, i like the mount speed so I am not changing it) 0-0-5-0-0-5-1 (Rescue reuse, and Mit bonus, along with taunt) 0-5-0-0-0-5-1 (5 to increase group CA dmg and 5 for the defensive stance even though I rarely use it, along with the taunt) 5-5-0-0-5-5-1-1 (Gibe,Reuse,Andrenaline,Shielding and both specials) This now leaves me with 4 points which I was thinking of putting in offensive stance to improve my hit rate seeing as so much of our damage comes from autoattack. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Here's what I roll with, but I've been playing around with it a lot lately. General: 0-0-0-5-0-5-0-0 Fighter: 0-5-0-0-0-5-1 Warrior: 0-5-0-0-5-0-1 Berserker: 5-5-5-5-4-0-1-1 As long as you have the +Max HP AA, you're fine. The second choice doesn't matter a whole lot. I like +Max Power, some don't. And we'll leave it at that. I can't recommend points in Offensive Prowess because of one reason: All it does is improve the +Crush/Slash/Pierce of Offense Stance, and with the right group members you'll be capped in those stats pretty easy (which means the AAs will be unneeded, and wasted if you're over cap). Same thing with Consummate Defender, all it does is boost +Parry and +Defense, and with the right group you'll be capped on both. And if you rarely tank in Defensive in the first place, those points will rarely be useful. I personally went with 5 to Swinging Strike for a more DPS oriented setup, but Enhance: Rescue is another good choice (although it's mostly a raid tank tool and not as useful in instance tanking). Note that Enhance: Rescue won't cut the reuse of Rescue down as much as you think: 50% reuse translates to 1 minute 40 seconds less reuse than base (and if you have Int end-line and Hastened Reuse as well, that number actually becomes 1 minute 16 seconds). Veteran's Shielding enhances the mit of your armor in Defense Stance, but once you get some good gear (Tier 2 in particular) you'll notice the Mit bonus in Defense Stance doesn't really boost your mit by a whole lot anymore (the exception being our T4 6 set, which adds +6 Mitigation to our defense stance). Adding 5% more mit on top of that will not result in a very big increase to overall mit %, maybe 1% more (due to Diminishing Returns). And again if you rarely tank in Defensive in the first place, these AAs are wasted. Instead I recommend Absorbing Blows (which will help you resist Stuns). Aggressive Nature is somewhat useful, but if you do a lot of dual wield tanking it won't be effective while doing so. Berserker tree I went with a nearly full DPS setup, but I'm tempted to drop Adrenaline Rush for Gladiator's Rage. The one thing Gladiator's Rage has going for it is that it enhances the +Shield Effectiveness of Controlled Rage, and it's very difficult to cap Shield Effectiveness (especially without Raid gear). Adrenaline Rush helps build up hate while you have Adrenaline going, but of course all the hate in the world won't do any good against a trigger happy Wizard.
My idea behind putting points into the offensive stance was that zerkers do the majority of their dps through autoattack and having a dirge in the group doesnt always happen. I like the enhance rescue skill, its up every 3minutes which is nice, the 3 positions is more than enough for group instances. I will be dropping the defensive stance buff as like you said I rarely use that anyway. I am not sure about the stun bonus, I am trying to rack my brains and think of zones that stun me, I havent run a lot of them as a tank honestly. I do think that Gladiators Rage is a nice skill, I have the bonus to it on the zerker tree and its up a lot. Maybe its me though but I rarely use Juggernaut, I just find that I get hit so hard its not worth apart from on trash.
TwistedFaith wrote: I always pair Juggernaut with a temp buff or Adrenaline if I use it on named mobs. Trash mobs they usually die fast enough it doesn't matter.
I helped a newbie zerker main from the guild through that situation with my templar and it were hours I don't really like look back at... Try to get stacked groups with minimum of two supporters and at least a dirge or a coercer. Having a templar to heal doesn't hurt either due to the number of defensive buffs they've got. And have every piece of T1 armor (the berserker/guardian flavor of course!) crafted as soon as you've got the shards - starting from your worst pieces. Don't go for shard jewelry before you've got the 5 piece bonus for the T1 set. After that there's nice 5 shard stuff with loads of defense/parry stats on there to give you better survivability. Also try to get the best tower shield you can afford - either a legendary one with +3 shield effectivity or a fabled one (fabled with +3 shield effectivity is of course the winner here but not so easy to get) A cheap improvement for survivability is also the Danak Vial Necklace with 2% riposte chance which can be crafted from a cheap component by any crafter with sufficient faction from Danak Shipyard.
TwistedFaith wrote: Just as a quick response to this, try and get your hands on the fabled charm from Guk: Halls of the Fallen http://lootdb.com/eq2/item/1689985518 That item keeps be strong in power even without a bard or enchanter in group. Generally if i have a dirge and the phantom proc on my off hand i generally sit at about 85-95% power whilst tanking but thats not using Adrenaline and i do have end ability in STA line. One other thing, that charm is now Attunable Lore so well worth keeping an eye to the broker * Just checked the stats on lootdb and they are not like that. Copy the item description in to game and see the true stats of the item.
Excellent info here from all of you. I wish all the boards were this infomative and everyone being helpful. It has been a pleasure reading this thread. Great job all!
The general thing I've found, having tanked/raid tanked for years, is; - Aggro needs to come before survivability. If your aggro is completely solid, then the healers have to worry about 1 thing, keeping you alive. If your aggro is anything less, then healers will end up trying to heal 2+ people at once, or stop heals on you totally. This will kill you more than having 5% less avoidance, or whatever. This is a key mistake many tanks make, thinking 'ah, i'll just let the wiz die', when in the process of dying the wizard has eaten the group ward, deathsaves, and made the healer change target, so you get subsequently flattened straight after. What this means in practical terms is that you should be dual wielding for the majority of content, and you should be in offensive stance for virtually all content. Alternate open wounds, rampage, and insolence between encounters to be sure you always have a decent amount of AE aggro going out. Use adrenaline frequently to compensate the loss in survivability, and as someone else mentioned get the charm from guk: halls, and/or the lavastorm collection to help with power. If you're holding aggro solidly but still getting completely flattened, then you can start bringing in more defensive gear. - Be prepared (cliche I know). Not having freedom of mind and freedom of action potions as a tank will cause avoidable wipes. Similarly having and using cure potions can help the healer substantially on mobs that land high damage DoTs, since they aren't faced with the difficult decision of whether to spam heal or cure. Signets, too, if used with an understanding of all the encounters, can mean the difference between a semi-difficult fight or completely steamrollering a named as though it were trash. - Use contol effects. As a zerker you have a fairly long stifle, multiple knockdowns, an interrupt and a stun. If you're fighting stuff that is really causing you to spike, then using these carefully rather than spamming will buy the healer a few seconds at critical moments. Also be aware that you can snare mobs easily with the temporary proc buff, meaning simply moving away from the mob can stop it from damaging you, an obvious fact often overlooked (although this will of course annoy any scouts and is best kept to a minimum). - Get positioning right. Avoid pulling mobs that AE back ontop of the group, but also avoid running away from the healer on a pull. Get the encounter static as soon as possible and make sure your UI is setup to let you cast CAs and move at the same time. If in doubt keep your back to a wall to prevent any knockback incidents. Couple the clickable berserk from the Zerker tree with adrenaline on difficult pulls so it's up from the start of the pull rather than waiting for a proc. - Get targetting right. Slackers in the group will target through you so what you target will die first. Remember that rapid cycling of targets so all mobs in an encounter die at roughly the same time maximises dps but makes life harder for the healers. Conversely, burning down one target at a time increases your survivability but reduces dps and increases the total time to kill the encounter. - Get AAs right. As noted str/sta/int is the 'correct' spec. Avoid the wisdom line, it won't help; if you need mitigation you have 2 temporary buffs that put you well above the curve. Lot of info on AA setup out there already so I won't repeat it here. I'm sure there's other stuff but those things seem to be the most common things lacking in bad tanks.
TuinalOfTheNexus wrote: A couple of comments: Letting wizards die is amusing. Reminding them that their DPS while dead is 0 is just priceless. In all seriousness, the DPS classes are also responsible for their threat generation. They even have that handy noob... I mean, threat meter now. If you're a mage or scout and you're grouped with a lesser-geared tank, it's as much your job to throttle your DPS as it is his to try and hold aggro. If you don't like holding back, then find yourself a different tank. One of the things about the game right now is that most people seem to think that aggro control is solely on the tank, and that's simply not the case. Because you can go full-burn in groups with your guild's MT and OTs doesn't mean that you should expect to do the same with some PUG tank in T1 legendary. And if you can't exercise any self-control, then the tank and healer(s) should just let you die until you get the point or /ragequit. Aggro management should be a team effort between the tank and the DPS classes that he's soaking up damage for.
The problem, though, is that the tanks who struggle with aggro usually use 'it's the dpser's fault' as an excuse to stop themselves from worrying about improving. Similarly gear is often used as an excuse for a bad playstyle. I mean, yes, DPSers do foolish things sometimes, but since you can't do anything about that, you should be trying your absolute best to keep aggro, and you have a heck of a lot of tools to enable that even with a significant DPS gap. Given equivalent gear it should be near impossible for them to pull aggro if you're doing your job right. Horde stuff with +double attack and +melee crit, and mutagenic burst, get a decent offhand and build a set of gear to maximise DPS. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to hold aggro against a mythical wiz or warlock with the fabled epic and a bunch of +2crit/DA legendary gear, and mutagenic for the really big pulls (e.g. outer stronghold).
Aggro is a two way street. DPSers need to control their aggro. But at the same time it's up to the Tank to put out as much aggro as possible.
Stick with Scion and Deep Forge until you get your T1 gear, then go after the other everfrost instances. Its hard, and does take some time. Also get your fabled weapon, that will also help alot, and always tank in defensive stance (even when dual wielding). At least, thats how I did it until I got geared up.
In my experience with EQ2, each expansion for a tank flip-flops between mitigation and avoidance. With expansions like RoK where the mobs swing fast, avoidance was key. EoF and TSO deal with slower swinging mobs that do high damage, which means you need mitigation. SoE even gave everyone a hint as to which you would need in this one by adding critical mitigation for critical hits. When I'm tanking Xebnok, Switchy, pentalclypse, whatever, my mitigation is what I most worry about. Of course I still run AGI potions and parry food, but I want my mit as high as my avoidance. Group instance same thing, but don't blame yourself on all these encounters. I have tanked Varsoon to death with a solo Warden. Does that mean any Warden can solo heal Varsoon? Not likely, I've been Pwnd in the face by Varsoon with 2 healers before. Needless to say, it sounds like you really care about your play style and don't want to feel like you're not doing your part, when in fact it takes a group to go through instances, not the tank draggin a bunch of bots.
TuinalOfTheNexus wrote: I agree somewhat with you. Everyday t2 or lesser armored non myth zerks cannot compensate for a nuke that just crited for 25K and nothing in the zerkers abilities other than rescue will help unless of course aa's are maxed for their abilities. So no matter how hard a zerker tries to keep aggro a strong dps class will rip aggro everytime off the zerker if the zerker has no forms of hate increasers or transfer. So I would say that dps classes will always have a much easier time generating hate than what a zerker can. So they to need to be attentive to the good ole hate meter.
TuinalOfTheNexus wrote: Could you please clarify this statement? As long as I am tanking for a similar level group as I am, I never have issues. When I play with t2 swashies, t3 wizard and even a top gear SK I have spikes where the mob turns and I can’t get agro back. I will pop rescue and watch the mob look at me and turn right back at the DPS’ers. One big one that comes to mind is a top geared brig on our server can auto attack and take agro for every non top raid geared tank I have ever seen(I usualy let him tank when I group with him) LOL, if there ever was an ego blow, its having a scout out tank you while they are AFK. Edit to add: LOL, my reading skills are lacking, I missed the part, "Given equivalent gear ". yaa I never have issue with peeps that arent 95% raid geared.
SK's are problematic to tank for, Deathmarch is great, its also a great big aoe taunt. Their Grave Sacrament ability is I'm pretty sure, the single biggest taunt in the entire game (and a lot of them don't even know it) If either of those buttons get pushed you will lose aggro in some cases. Sometimes not to Deathmarch if you are dishing out enough pain to all the mobs in the encounter, but Grave Sacrament takes it every time. A t3 wiz with Najena's Ring of Readiness can drop an 80k+ nuke on a debuffed mob, if they do it at the wrong time you can pretty much bet the mob is going to be right miffed about it. Swashbucklers are aoe dps machines, and their auto attack hits harder than ours and hits almost as many mobs as ours. They also have short term buffs that up their output considerably just like our own Rampage, only moreso. Make sure they are putting their hate transfer on you and I say again, get a pocket Dirge. Brigs are the worst. No hate transfer of their own and we have nothing to do to them but try to outdps them. If you manage that then you are either pulling lots of mobs or the brig isn't all that great. If you want to lock in aggro get a dirge and coercer and get a peaceful link put on the brig and +hate on you from both classes. At that point you should be able to have complete control of the hate, barring stuns/stifles on pull or the like.
