This is gonna sound hostile or whatever, but it's not intended to be. In all honesty, you can say whatever you want; what matters to me is what I see every day. What I see is the shaman dog 150-300dps on its own while being immune to ae's and without the shaman needing to pay attention to it. I see a Templar casting his hammer pet and then being able to maintain 400dps meleeing, not casting a single spell (omg no, not 6 mana per tick!). Druids don't have aa's even remotely comparable to the things clerics and shamans have (and I can't f'n believe shamans were complaining the first month and a half of KoS); and that's not a "grass is greaner on the... blah blah" If there is a single person who plays this game who actually reads all the aa's for each of the 3 classes and believes Druids' aa's are even good (let alone better than someone else's), I would get a sex change and name myself Lex. Druids should be far above other priests due to the lack of a third or fourth dimension to the classes (it was even stated that they were intended to be at fanfaire).. not just a tiny bit; and they aren't even that right now. The devs boosted non-druid dps before anyone even had enough aa's to see how much damage they could do. So the dps boost coupled with the clear-blatant-ridiculously superior aa's of the other classes has ended up nerfing the f out of druids (even tho their spells weren't changed in the slightest, yet). And before any trolls mark me as a nerf caller... quite the contrary. Aa's should be good, like cleric and shaman ones. Druid ones are terrible. Not even worth playing after 70 to max em out. I doubt druids would even need a boost at all on their spells, if they were given better aa's to compensate. A larger %crit max, Infusion not sucking so bad, some kind of bonus proc on spells, something... anything that isn't a huge waste of effort. Sorry if it sounded hostile to you in the beginning, Sokolov. I can't come up with a better way of saying "You can say what you want..." I'm just voicing my agitation with the way things are. I have been slowly hating my class more and more since late april; and it sucks because I used to think it was so fun. Note: Wanted to point out that it's obvious my stance is pro-dps druids; while other druids are pro-healing/buffing/debuffing/etc. I personally don't mind the lack of tools for protecting a group... the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty debuffs... the inferior burst healing, etc etc etc. So I probably go against many of the druids in this thread too My main concern right now is how my potential damage equates to another priest's potential damage, because that's all druids currently have... and in my eyes there is currently a gigantic imbalance Message Edited by Goozman on 06-06-2006 04:55 PM
Well if you're after dps I'm pretty sure you're not going to get it. I mean.... wardens and furies are sorta rocking the boat atm if you think about it. When we parse 800 dps we're outdamaging a lot of classes, i.e. bards, chanters and crusaders. The ones who I talk to are always annoyed by our dps numbers so we're capped where we are I believe. It felt like before in previous expansions we never went full dps in raids so it was never an issue but being outdpsed by healers seems to be getting under their skin. I think we're not supposed to break 1k dps in raids. Add onto that and templars needed some soloing power. I toyed around on a guardian and boy was soloing boring. I can only imagine what a templar is like. When we did the trials for mark of awakening the mystic who I did the quest with took a full hour longer then anyone else for trial 3. They needed dps to be able to solo effectively. So while they're catching up offensively and needed to we're in the same position we were defensively. That's the problem. Since I believe we're capped offensively and wont be getting a boost any time soon (repeated nurfs to wolves as an example) the only place for the class to go is getting better defensive buffs. Hybrid healer or not it's the only direction the class can go besides not moving at all which would be a poor decision in my eyes. Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 06-06-2006 09:39 PM
not the guild leader but.... the 2 wardens have the spots because they're the best [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] healers i've seen(which includes elrohn oopo elleffgee and uway of course :O), not just becuase they're wardens but because they're just good. there hasnt been a fury app worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in a while either. yeah we do nice dps and wardens are good for that, but if you want to increase dps it's not the warden, it's the inquis and fury that are amplifying my autoattack dps by like 30-80% i played an inquis all through t6 and some of t5, you wanna talk healer balance you play one of those high end and bring some tissues becuase you're going to need them.... :*(
OOC. No. I think not. You appear in this post to be calling for a "god-class". You appear to want all sorts of things to make Druids the obvious choice in solo, small group, group and raid settings. But it is not going to happen. Druids should *not*, ever be "far above other priests" for any reason. This is the Warden forum, so you speak about "Druids", but you are really posting here largely about the Fury class from most of what you are saying. Sure, there are issues, and some Druid AA skills look a bit poor I'd agree, and for the Fury class specifically there are some annoyances with interrupts and fizzles. But Fury DPS in solo and small group settings is just fine, and certainly there is no justification for calling for any significant increase compared to other priest classes, to my mind. (Removed some stuff not really relevant here) I am sorry, I fundamentally disagree with your assessment. Message Edited by Caethre on 06-08-2006 06:40 PM
Um.... this is the warden board. Not the fury board.... I was just thinking. I have an idea for a way to change our AAs to rebalance them. Change the str line AA that gives a group heal proc and give it to clerics. Then give us one of their abilities that's nice and give it to wardens in the str line. Why have a heal melee proc for a warden? It makes no sense since group healing is already our strength. On the other hand we could use a little bit more somewhere and I'm sure clerics would be happy with a group heal proc, especially Inquisators. Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 06-07-2006 12:46 PM
Why? Because it makes a lot of sense from a different perespective. If you consider that each healer class is somewhat unique and should stay that way, then you would want AAs to enhance their uniqueness, not make them all "look alike".
No idea. But druids speciality is AOE healing so it makes a lot of sense (from the "class vision" PoV) to give them proc that gives more AOE healing.
Solf wrote: Why? Because it makes a lot of sense from a different perespective. If you consider that each healer class is somewhat unique and should stay that way, then you would want AAs to enhance their uniqueness, not make them all "look alike". Unique? Don't templars already have a melee heal proc with their Mark line? Two actually: Glory of combat - uses a concentration slot, and even at Master2 was outhealed by my hat, as it now procs once in a blue moon Mark - Raid wide debuff. Chance to give a small heal to anyone melee hitting the debuffed mob. Nope, too nice, by far our best debuff, ye canna have it. I'm still in search of that mystical templar dps btw. You've really put up a straw man arguement with templars out dpsing you, or even being close.
All I can say to you is try playing a Shaman. It takes 25 AAs to make the pet immune to indirect AAs and it still gets one-shotted often, especially if you don't pay attention to it. Then again, if you don't tell it to do anything, it's not going to attack anyway. At nearly 40 AAs I have never, ever seen it output more than 150 DPS or so (and I parse constantly). More than half our AA tree depends on the pet being alive AND attacking to have ANY effect at all thus we have literally NO CHOICE but to go down the STR line - it's not even a debate anymore. Why were/are Shamans complaining? Because it takes 25 points to make half our AAs even USABLE. So yes, you can say what you want too, but while I can reach over 1k DPS... it's only in very very specific situations (only one I can think of is HoF drake room), and it's silly when Druids say "Shamans can do 900 DPS" as though it happens every other fight. Most of the time even with my best damage spell Defile (2 min recast) on a few mobs I only hit 350 or so, including the pet.
I love that room. Probably not even a fair example for you either. In the drake room, I can use our Winds line (group direct damage) and do that too. On a crit, I have done 18K damage with one cast. Most times, if I really try, I can do 250 to 300 dps in a group--but I still have to heal, too. I don't run a parser myself, but a friend has a few times and she shares the numbers with me. Personally, I would love to watch these folks who do so much damage in action to see how they do it. It makes me a bit jealous to hear all these examples. :smileywink:
Lol, 25 points to make your pet immune to AoEs is nothing compared to 50 points that don't make a difference after you max out heal crits.
Don't they? I've heard spell crits or, alternatively, melee haste + double attack + melee attack @ 10 sec recast + AOE healing proc do make some difference. But then again, I don't have it yet, so can't say for sure. On paper, it looks like they would make a difference. Maybe not as much as you would have hoped for, but still. Oh, and then there's charm animal (which some swear by) and that AOE immunity. That's not to say I'm feeling terribly excited about any of this (on paper, I have grand total 3 AA so far), but to say that they don't make difference at all is not correct.
The charm animal is a nice toy, but it does not offer much. There are many zones where there are no animals to charm, and since it does not zone with you, that makes it useless in many places. The charmed animal cannot taunt, and does not offer much for DPS. If you charmed an ^ -> ^^^ mob, it is reduced to the effectiveness of a no arrow mob, until charm breaks, then it reverts back to being more powerful. Basically once charmed it becomes a gimped version of its former self, even no arrow mobs are reduced in effectiveness. You can test this by charming one, and having it attack the same level/type mob you charmed. Your charmed pet will die first, unless you intervene. It does not taunt, heal, or dps, if you are lucky, it might toss out a special move now and again, but thats it. You can easily out DPS the pet and pull agro from it, so you cannot use it to tank when solo. So basically, its pretty useless for anything other than a toy. I would much prefer to be able to summon a no arrow wolf that is of my own level that does either DPS or tuanting. Then it would be useful.
Obviously I haven't tried it myself, but I've seen reports on these very forums that charm animal makes soloing certain writs and areas a piece of cake. Those people seem to find them very useful. So apparently YMMV.
I thought we were already good at soloing. Charm doesn't help at all because you can only use it in 2 place in kos, and even with that you can already solo without any issue in these place.
