Guild Hall Preview from Fan Faire up at EQ2TC!

Discussion in 'Community News' started by ARCHIVED-NiamiDenMother, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Eveningsong Guest

    Maroger wrote:
    Rothgar, that would be awesome in my opinion. Actually, my suggestion was going to be to make the 5 room house be available at level 20, with the T1 guild hall at 30, but the guild hall at 20 would be even better. And I really hope you can manage to get the art folks to create something different for the T1 hall, even if it is just a few different wall/floor customizations (colour please!!!). Of course, then we'll be bugging you to make something for the regular houses too

    I can't disagree enough with Maroger's comments though. While I would love to get a guild hall the day they go live, I absolutely do not think that any person who can get 6 people to join a group for 5 minutes to form a guild should get a guild hall. There needs to be SOME work involved, even if it was available as a basic 1 room hall at level 10 (which would be cool actually, even if it only had like 2 amenities available). But there is ZERO work involved in forming a guild other than spamming people to help you set one up.

    And any guild can already have a 1 (or 5) room "guild hall" without amenities. Its called a house.
  2. ARCHIVED-Skywarrior Guest

    Griffinhart wrote:
    Yes, please, let's be fair here. The term "lockout timer" comes to mind. And the fact that guilds that are capable of clearing PR in 40 minutes simply aren't doing so routinely as they have progressed onwards and it isn't really worth the time. But, let's say you are correct, so what? The point is that there are easily available alternatives that are fully accessible to guilds that do not have a single raid character on their roster.
    There are no lockout timers on writs, my friend, nor any minimum raid requirements. Kendricke's example, which you compared to a single run through PR, can be run as often as the guild feels is necessary. And you are not going to squeeze three runs of PR into a week with a single raid force.
    By the way, most hardcore raid guilds are "small guilds", generally with not much more than maybe 30 total accounts in the membership. So by "smaller", I can only assume you mean "guilds that don't play much and only have a couple members on each day, if that". In which case, I would have to advise either recruit, find yourself a real guild, or revise your expectations. I'm not being intentionally obuse here but these "small guilds" everyone is describing seem to be mostly geared towards players looking for a bit more intimate chat room than a guild that actually works together to accomplish goals. And there is nothing wrong with that, particularly, but by the same token members of such a guild really shouldn't expect to have guild rewards handed to them for no effort.
    What is the difference in potential between a hardcore raid guild of 30 members and a "friends and family" guild of 30 members? Focus? Dedication? Time available? Desire? Probably some of all of the above. What it really comes down to though is that a guild with members who are focused and willing (and yes, able) to dedicate the effort can find ways to actually accomplish things that a loosely organized "chatroom" membership simply will not. This is life, even in a game.
  3. ARCHIVED-zhiDarkivel Guest

    Eveningsong wrote:
    I agree that not every guild needs to have a guild hall when they are first formed. The level requirements are fine, in my opinion. I don't even mind the level 30 requirement.

    People work to get their guilds to 20. They work even harder to get to 30. (and to 50 and to 70). So that is work done.

    Then they'll work to get the money to buy the guild hall.

    Then they'll work to get the money and status to buy the amenities.

    All I ask for is a point, somewhere after all this work, where I can just sit back and say "Look, I've done that! I've earned that!" and then go do something else in the game for a while. Not have to keep doing the same work over and over to keep a hold of it.
  4. ARCHIVED-TreeMos Guest

    Liefje@Mistmoore wrote:
    Exactly. This is a major problem for decently sized, casually run guilds. More so then initial costs or location. Is there a justification for this that I'm just not seeing? Was this part of a SOE design to keep non-anally rententive guild leaders from owning Guild Halls? If there was a reason I'd like to hear it. And if not, I'd really like to hear how they plan to mitigate it.

    I can buy the argument that there needs to be some maintenance cost there to act as a money-sink that helps balance the economy. And its not that most guilds couldn't afford the maintenance fees. We just need either an automated/automatic way to collect the fees or for them to be removed entirely. Because manual collection will drive more then a few good guild leaders and officers into early retirement.
  5. ARCHIVED-Maroger Guest

    Part of the problem with guild halls was created by SOE. For years they showed us concept art of the castle on the island and kept saying "guild Halls" are coming. It will be so much fun for players blah, blah, blah, blah.
    AT NO TIME did SOE say - oh by the way these nice guild halls are going to be exclusively for large, rich guilds -- the rest of you can take a hike. And you small, family guilds well - you are out of luck- you don't need one so just lump it.
    Now reality has arrived and people are unhappy and have ever right to be. They were basically conned into believing that guild halls were for the WHOLE community to enjoy - at least at a certain guild level - say 10 or 20 ( like purchasing status items.
    I think all the players knew they would have to pay something for guild halls, like they do now for better housing and mounts, but noone thought that you have to have the income of the MMO equivalent of a Hedge Firm Manager to enjoy what was billed as something for Guilds to have and enjoy.
    I think SOE Developers had the idea that player gained plats and status based on the concept that players raided or did status exclusively in Kunark. That is simply not the case -- also SOE has always thought since EQ1 days that grinding status and faction was"fun" for players. They are only just now figuring out ( since their competitors hit them over the head with the fact) that lots of players DO NOT like grinding writs and faction, no more than they liked camping. Actually writs are one of the most UN-FUN things in the game. The first time you do the writ, it is fun, you get XP for the writ, AA, + status. After that it is status only(plus a teeny, weeny amount of XP for killing the mobs) -- and after the 10th time of doing the same writ - fun is dead on the floor.
    SOE created the problem and now they need to put it right - even if that means taking the time to go back to the drawing board.
    Right now AT ALL LEVELS -- esp. T1 guild halls are too expensive and the upkeep simply out of sight.
    The fact that SOE has failed to post the actual cost of stuff like Amenities is only adding fuel to the fire. I think they need to be more upfront with what is going on.
  6. ARCHIVED-AlStealHeart Guest

    Your guild has to be level 30 to purchase those halls in the city (Qeynos/Freeport) so that is my guess on how they came up with level 30 to begin with. Maybe to make it easier to code, or to follow a trend, dunno.
  7. ARCHIVED-livejazz Guest

    Maroger wrote:
    They never said either of those things, because neither of them is true, & continuing to assert otherwise -- especially in the face of guilds like mine -- doesn't make them any less false.
    Please get your facts straight, before you continue to post this sort of nonsense.
  8. ARCHIVED-Maroger Guest

    Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:
    Every guild is unique in its membership and funds -- so your guild cannot be held up as an example of every guild of a similar size in the game. Your guild is not a paragon nor the only guild whose point of view should be considered as representative of smaller guilds.
    You don't have to say thing to imply them -- SOE's current design implies a specific conclusion or viewpoint of guilds - with regards to size, activity and funding.
  9. ARCHIVED-AlStealHeart Guest

    Maroger wrote:
    I think based on what they told us over a year ago and what they told us now? Is completely different. I understand MMO are everchanging but what the reality is now is nothing like what they proposed. I think there is most of the shock factor... I think SOE should've said something to us along the way on how things were working out... however my guess is they did not to avoid all this for as long as they could. I agree with the poster here. We still haven't heard anything officially from SOE just a bunch of information leaking from the Fan Faire. I'd like to see a write up on how these are going to work, functions, etc. I am sure they are working on this but it will help confusion if they can get something out now.
  10. ARCHIVED-ShashLigai Guest

    Sorry to disagree, but SOE got it right, again. Just like in RL, small groups have to make due with what they can afford. Guild Halls are no different, nor should they be. If you look closely at what the halls offer, you will see that the amenities are simply a convenience, they really don't add anything to the gaming experience. Thos guilds that want a guild hall are paying for that convenience.
  11. ARCHIVED-Kibannu Guest

    AlStealHeart wrote:
    They just did. The guild halls aren't live right now. This is the 'saying something along the way' you asked for.
  12. ARCHIVED-Obadiah Guest

    I thought I'd chime back in here. I've looked over the partial price list, and frankly I like everything I've seen except that I think there should be SOME refund when you upgrade. But one thing that you might want to consider is the amount of status upkeep variance from T1 to T3 vs. the amount of coin cost variance.

    What I mean is, from T1 to T3 it's 100P, 500P, 1000P. Status is 100K, 150K, 200K. Those lines have a very different slope from one another. I think you're asking enough of the lower level guilds for status upkeep that it WILL feel like a chore, which is exactly what was stated as undesirable. Personally I have enough to upkeep the top-end castle for a long time, but if you're in a level 30 guild, chances are no one has 14,000,000 personal status. Can I get a 200K, 100K, 50K? Still not the same slope, but much closer.

    EDIT: Put another way . . . the T1 Guild Hall only costs 10% of the T3 guild Hall, but the status upkeep on it is 50% of the T3 Hall.

    Just a thought.

    Hijack: Does anyone know, if you change guilds does the number in your "Status Contributed" column reset to zero? Not that I'm vain or anything, just asking.
  13. ARCHIVED-livejazz Guest

    Maroger wrote:
    That's correct. That is why I'm tired of you making sweeping, blanket statements to the effect that "small guilds" are simply SOL on guild halls. I belong to a TINY guild, yet we can obtain one, ergo your blanket statement is simply false. Please stop asserting falsehoods.
    I don't claim my guild is a "paragon", but I will say that if my tiny, casual friends-&-family guild comprising 8 total players can get a guild hall, then any other guild our size or larger should also be able to. IMO, the biggest factor is whether or not people are dedicated enough to help their guild do it -- not at all how many people are in the guild, whether they raid or not, or any of those other false claims you & others keep making.
    By your own statements -- i.e., your total denigration of writs -- you're not willing to do what it takes, & apparently you think nobody else in your guild is, either, or else you wouldn't be complaining so bitterly.
  14. ARCHIVED-Kibannu Guest

    ShashLigai wrote:
    Precisely. Let me bold the most important statement(s) here.
  15. ARCHIVED-Raidyen Guest

    The game is called Everquest, not Everplat. The Devs are completely missing the point of why people are ticked off. Yes my guild, 6 members, 18 months lvl 54, could get the 100 plat necissary. We have it now. We will go buy our little 5 room guild hall, toss in the handful of useful things that will be there, and call it a day, go right back to grinding out on instances.
    Personally i think its a massive waste of a MAJOR desire of the majority of players in this game to not have one kickin quest line in order to unlock the bigger guild halls. Something like the Tradeskill epic line but a bit more massive would do the trick.
    You say you want to make guild halls something special, and make players work for it, well then forget this massive plat requirement and give us something real to do. Its supposed to be a game, and last time a check, questing is what its all about, not grinding out for plat.

    (edit: lazy was way to strong of a word and not my intent.)
  16. ARCHIVED-Foolsfolly Guest

    Rothgar wrote:
    Ah yes, amenities such as tradeskill workstations and merchants. Menders. Brokers. Haircutters and cloak designers. A call home spell and bells that transport you to the major docks throughout the world. How exactly do these things offer an advantage over all the other players in eq2 who have had the exact same things since day 1?

    Face it, guild halls are good for one thing only: bragging rights. Getting your carpenters to set up a sexy looking castle that makes your guild members feel like they are special just for having access to such a luxurious place. But face it, most of them won't be willing to pay for it. Most people won't waste their hard-earned platinum on anything that doesn't increase their dps. At best it will be just 4 or 5 people willing to pool their resources to buy their guild this status symbol. And after a couple months, that will be down to just 1 person still willing to grind out an upkeep every week. And it will no longer be fun; it will be tedious and exhausting, and eventually lead to the last player quitting and the guildhall going unpaid for.

    The guild getting to level 70, plus the costs of rare furniture and expensive amenities should be all the investment required for guildhalls. Such expensive purchase prices and upkeeps are total overkill.

    Perhaps one option would be to have the trophies granted from killing expansion bosses reduce the upkeep cost, potentially eleminating it completely? Or just put more emphasis on status costs instead of platinum, since that is earned through raiding anyway and usually goes to waste.
    Either way, I feel like guild halls should be something to be enjoyed, not slaved over.
  17. ARCHIVED-Kibannu Guest

    Drocca@Venekor wrote:
    Because grinding long, boring quests is much better than grinding for plat / status, right?
  18. ARCHIVED-Griffinhart Guest

    Skywarrior wrote:
    My point was that Large guilds, especially raiding guilds, have more avenues to get Status and plat than smaller non raiding guilds and since they have more active players they can do it far quicker. PR was just an example. A raiding guild can get a lot of status and plat just in their day to day activities all while getting gear far better than anything a small guild can do. And while a small guild can grind writs, so can a large guild. So the point still stands.
    And I am not expecting to get anything with no effort. Even if T3 halls were 500 plat, It would still take significant effort for us to attain that plus amenities and the weekly upkeep. I'm just trying to point out that making the price so high is a problem. On the other hand, a 500p or 1000p guild hall for large raiding guilds will offer no barrier. It's simply a plat sink that ensures players belonging to smaller guilds that are no less dedicated than large guild members get left out or a runner up prize
    My guild has about 6 to 10 people that play 5+ days a week. We have an additional 6 or so that play one or two days a week. We put a lot of effort into leveling our guild. The idea that halving the proposed initial coin cost is handing us anything with no effort is total BS and quite frankly insulting. I often think big guilds, especially raiding guilds forget or don't realize what a different game they play compaired to the rest. My regular guild players put just as much time and effort into the game as any raider and they do it without all of the advantages larger guilds can give them. They are no less deserving of the cool stuff than any raider.
  19. ARCHIVED-Raidyen Guest

    Kibannu wrote:
    Why do you play? Might as well just make Mythicals purchasable with that line of thinking.
  20. ARCHIVED-Kibannu Guest

    Foolsfolly wrote:
    To each his own. I think the costs ultimately are rather small and the upkeep is a joke for any active guild. Even if you don't raid you can get status and money to upkeep VERY simply, almost no effort required.

    It sounds like most people that are whining just want a guild hall for free ( usually the ones that won't be able to come up with the plat ).