[GU67] AA restriction removal.... what about the 280AA to level barrier?

From the patch notes:

I really don't care that the restrictions are removed. However, I find it curious that the 280AA requirement was also not removed. When that requirement originally went in, Lyndro's rationale was that it ensured that players had enough AA to reach the endline of their Heroic tree. That can obviously be done a lot sooner now with level restrictions removed, so should the 280AA requirement go as well?

Talk amongst yourselves.

Note: I have multiple characters who far surpass the 280AA barrier; I'm simply bringing up the topic because the logic of the current change does not mesh with the original logic of this barrier. This isn't a discussion about whether or not "280AA is easy to get!", just on whether or not it still makes sense.

We've always been able to pick up the points sooner, we just couldn't use them. The 280 still makes sense, as you want to be at that point going into the last tier.

The 280AA barrier still makes perfect sense. Leveling is easy, yes, but leveling adventuring is much, much easier than leveling AA. Top tier is all balanced on the assumption of minimum 280AA, and if that barrier were removed people could and would hit 95 with less than half of that. And find themselves completely overwhelmed by the content that should be level-appropriate to them.

I've got 75% of my adventure xp going to AA on my main beastlord, and have since she made 20. Based on the AA she's earned so far she's still going to be short of 280 when she hits 90. Not by much, but still short. If she's leveling that slowly, with that much xp going to AA, and still not going to break the barrier before she hits it, imagine how fast the average power-leveler will blow right past it if that barrier's removed.

In your first paragraph you assume that people are incapable of using some intelligence to decide when it might be time to grind some AA. People should have a CHOICE as to how to build a character - not a very visible and immersion breaking checkpoint.

I'm impressed you have had the tenacity to level with 75% into AAs. May I politely ask, is this your first or second toon? Are you relatively new? I ask this because for veterans, levelling an alt this way could be a game breaker, terrifically dull. And with people out there with 5, 10 20 or 30 alts should again, have a CHOICE as to how to make new toons. When a new toon is PL'ed it is 90 with about 30 AA, if that. Then it is PL'ed in KD contested, Dracur contested, or Sebilis etc.

You may well find that if the 280AA restriction is lifted people might be content with say 150 AA before their other experienced friends will let them group with them, as they will be in full 95 fabled gear, and willing to play with friends.

In summary - remove 280AA restriction please - now we have EQ2u it is always possible to have a look where someone is on AA for that myth, the endgame content pug anyways, so there would be nothing to gain by someone lying!

unlock all AA's for low tier pvp I say.

the main reason i dont want it changed is that i dont want to have to deal with looking up on eq2u every person i dont know that i am going to invite into a PuG group. atm by looking at there HP/Power i can tell wither they can survive the zone i plan on doing or if i need to replace them. but if i can not depend on them having max or near max AA then just since they have the HP does not mean they will be able to do there job.

So i vote leave the 280 AA requirement as it is.

The reasons for the AA restriction were given when it was implemented and are still relevant. It's not about how players level, its about how the content is tuned and giving OTHER players the ability to know that characters above level 90 meet a minimum 'power level'. (That is a paraphrase of 2 of the reasons given by the devs when the restriction was implemented.) Those reasons are still relevant.

Cearra is my 23rd character, and I've been playing since a month after launch (had to wait for a clear paycheck to get it).

And that "very visible and immersion breaking checkpoint" is why I've got so much of her xp going to AA, as well as all my other pre-90 characters. Even going that slow, I rarely get through all the content in one level-appropriate overland zone, much less the 3-4 that most tiers offer. I play through more mid-level content, my leveling is more linear, and I'll spend less time at the barrier than if I PL'd to 90 and ground all my AA at once.

Now, some people, vetrans and new, may fast-track to 90 in contested and end up with only 30AA, and they can do that. And if they've got friends or groups willing to go with their lvl 90, 30AA PL'd character into higher-level instances, they can do that too, and they will get the AA they need and gear for when they level. Heck, if they are awesome enough players to be able to solo/molo the lvl 95 solo instances, they can do so and grind their own AA just like they ground levels. I've no doubt there are some players able to do that. Just like if I've got a friends or groups willing to help me, or if I am just that awesome a player, I can take my lvl 25 bruiser into Runnyeye.

But if my lvl 25 is looking for a Runnyeye group, that low level is a clear flag to everyone else that my bruiser is severely underpowered for the zone. Anyone I group with will know going in I probably will be very little help, require lots of protection and/or rezzes, and mostly be leaching coin and drops. The 280 barrier is the exact same flag to everyone in 90+ content, because all content from Withered Lands on is balanced on lvl 90+ and 280AA. A lvl 95, 30AA character would be just as underpowered for Siren's Grotto as a lvl 25 character for Runnyeye, but other players would have no way to know without looking the character up on an outside source like EQ2U - assuming the person hasn't turned off their EQ2Player updates.

A vetran with the experience and social connections to power-level probably would have those same experience and social connections to help them in the high-end zones, if they don't want to grind in Velious/Withered Lands for all that AA. Or they will, as you said, have the experience to know that periodically they need to stop the level-grinding and focus on AA-grinding. And the ones who know to stop and AA grind occasionally are the least likely ones to be affected by the barrier, as they'll have been working on it in advance. But for those who don't know to stop, or don't think to stop, or believe they are an uber-player who can handle content they are statistically underpowered for, the people they might group with deserve to have that flag.

Say bye-bye to BGs and PvP without these restrictions it will be even more lopsided than it already is.

I'd be more in favor of Heroic/Raid zones blocking entrance based on the amount of AAs you have instead of your level being blocked. Heck, maybe raid zones should block entrance if you don't have 320.

Guys are missing the point. Removing all restrictions is the way to go - then, add a feature to /inspect which shows how many AA a person has, problem solved.

Putting this 280 AA barrier in was a terrible idea, reminisce of 'nanny state' ideology.

No, sorry - it should not have been the devs' decision to say which players could and couldn't try content. They instead should have just given players the ability to see other peoples' AA amount, and allowed people to go to new zones. Sure, tune it to 320/95, but let me in there at whatever level/AA I want. Half the fun is trying.

While I whole heartedly agree about the freedom to choose I must raise a concern about what will undoubtedly follow.

Once the restriction is removed I am 110% positive that the next set of threads on these forums would be said "Freedom of Choice" folks asking to have the content nerfed because it is too hard and they are having trouble doing it.

Not all will do this but enough will do it that it will be an annoyance to see thread after thread opened and closed on the discussion of the zones being too tough for their startup guild. I am sure that if your group is skilled enough you could do this content...with time, patience, and repair kits but not everyone is so skilled.

Don't get me wrong Oldtimer...I am not saying it is a bad idea if everyone would understand that they will struggle doing this content without the proper setup...but we all know how that goes around here eh?

In the initial discussion of this new gate, they did bring up a lot of complaints they received that people were too low in AAs to handle the content. It's been a problem since long before Velious came out. I've experienced it firsthand. Raids and groups were difficult to deal with when some people didn't put in full effort into their characters. It's why they made the move to prestige abilities, so you know when you invite a 95, they have a specific skillset ready.

This is true, but it's more fun to be successful within the first few tries. Otherwise, you're just beating your head against a wall and wasting people's time. To be honest, that phrase just makes me sink in my seat and want to crawl under a rock. The people who died the most would always say that. It's why I haven't raided in a while.

what i would really like to see is more aa points being used. I am maxed at 95 on my toon. She has maxed aas. Although i still like going back and doing stuff she missed, it's a shame that she can't collect or use more aas and a lot of the aa items she could have used are grayed out because she is limited to only a few aas. why can't we obtain and use enough aas at the endgame to have all of the aas possible on our toons? in eq1 they have over 6k aas and can buy every aa available with all of the upgrades to each aa. in fact, my brother-in-law is maxed on his eq1 toon and often complains that there is nothing left to spend the aas on that he keeps getting. I would rather have nothing to spend them on than to have a ton of aa items left and can't get the aas to put into them. don't make a lot of sense to have such a low cap.

In EQ1, AAs are more about making up for the fact that you can't load up more than 12 spells on your bar. Here, they create some diversity and focus for different play-styles. Obtaining all possible AAs makes everyone the same overpowered carbon copy of the next person. I'd rather have choices to make than be uber-maxed all the time.

but i really hate getting maxed and nothing to do but go back and do content i missed with no where to go. don't think i want to max my next toon so quickly.

Being able to max all AA wouldn't fix this problem. You would still eventually end up maxed with nothing to do. If you want to slow things down, you can turn off combat and quest xp.

At one time, you could spend most of your AA as you received them, then they added minimum level requirements, mostly due to the fact that some of the PvP community was complaining about locked level 39's with max AA. Suddenly they put level requirements on when you can spend them. They are just going back to before the change.

As far as leveling past 90, I still think a minimum of 280 is relevant. Some of the prestige are based on end AA's lines that require spending so much AA to get to. Also, who wants to try and inspect someone on EQ2U when all they have to do is lock that and guessing by gear they may have passed to their newly power-leveled toon won't be helpful.

example: "bladedance on incoming please"
"oh sorry I don't have enough aa's yet for blade dance..."

Sorry, one old-timer to another 'oldtimer', I disagreee:
No one wants a power-leveled character that's been outfitted by their 'main' in level 95 content with no AA's that bring anything to the group or raid.
There is no such thing as 'half the fun is trying' when 'half the group / raid' is not up to par on AA's.
"Its not what your group or raid can do for you, its what you can do for them"