Goodbye raid tankablilty, Hello World of Warcraft! /finger soe

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Memmoch, Sep 18, 2005.

  1. ARCHIVED-Espyderman Guest

    Funny, i know a 50 Guardian who is saying what your saying about the guardian class. That guardians are no longer the MT's nor zerkers and only Monks and bruisers are better now.
  2. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    Aye, very strange comments from the OP here considering that all the 50+ Guards I know indicate that they are very displeased with the CC right now and complain that they can't seem to take hits nearly as well as they used to be able to whereas I'm having a blast with the changes and tanking mobs just as well if not better than I used to be able to. Go figure.
  3. ARCHIVED-Ethelwolf Guest

    It's the group regen Destructive Rage that doesn't provide any regen. It may for group members, but it certainly doesn't for my Berserker. The other Proc regen is working.
  4. ARCHIVED-Memmoch Guest

    Aonein=Sony employee :smileyvery-happy:

    Seriously though, how can you honestly say that we can tank anywhere nearly as good as we used to be able to? That's just....well dumb.

    I am not suffereing from guardian envy either, all the plate classes seem to of gotten improvments while we have had our decreased. I made my berserker to be a raid MT, as it stands now what are we? We're not raid MT's, we're not the best choice for single group tanks, we're for sure not DPS.....that leaves us as being....?

    Extint in my opinion lol.


    Once again a big fat /FINGER SOE
  5. ARCHIVED-Zhonata Guest

    I think the real point here is that u made your beserker for one thing and then SOE has decided that that want it to do something else and the bottum line is that SOE can do what ever they want. No matter how many countless hours i have spent, or u, or anyoen else playing a class that we chose for its traits. I think that it is extremly unproffesional of SOE to make such drastic changes to the class it like me paying for sports car and getting station wagon. I dont know who SOE is tryign to kid, this wasnt a revamp or a balancing this was a CLASS CHANGE. As Aonein has clearly stated our postion has been moved or abilties changed and our attributed modified. We are no longer the bezerkers.... we are something else.

    Aonein i do not see how u can justify this but what ever makes u sleep better at night. I obviously chose this class for a reason and spent the time and effort to reach 50 for its traits for what traits it use to have. Our new combat regen is a joke toatlly end of story it need to be increase. Our dmg is completly dependant apon being MT and yet u say we are fourth in line to the postion this to me makes no since. Once more we take alot more dmg than the other class i assume that the combat regen was supsoe to counter this well it doesnt. It doesnt makes since. HAs anyoen tried dueling well i have i have battle almost every class and every class has a leg up on us because they have class dfining attributes. I can jsut about kill ever class..... that is jsut about ever class i have fought i have gotten RED everyone of them but as is we do not have the abitlty to finish of any one of them. Now granted u can buff yoru self to kindgdom come with potions and put special armorm o nfor each class but the other class never did that it doesnt make since htat i should have to change my load out evr time i fight someone if they dont have to. Also we have liek no Utilities we havea couple stund wow that great , NOt. The original postion were supose to be gurdian bezerker as Heavy Tank, Palidin Shadowknights as medium tanks, and monk and brusiers as low level tanks that is the order originally. Now with the obvious changes that order u have displayed is apparent but makes no since. As Memmoch said there is no reason why the gurdian should have competion for the mt slot this is why there are 2 subclass for ever class. And i am not suffering from gurdian envy either i actually rather liked beign secondary to a gurdian. I like beign able to pull the aggro off him if him when was about to die with out trying and then lettign them reclaim it once at full life i rather respected gurdians. Our abilty to be versitile WAS OR CLASS DEFINING TRAIT !! Now u say we are AOE KING and i have lie kwhat 1 aoe............ and counter attacks lol that is laughable. that like sayung schout using poison is ther class defining trait.

    As i see it the changes can be modified to fix this problem with the bezerk without going back to the old over power beserker as it is now left alone the bezerker class is a gentic reject that i would take out back and shoot several times in the head.
  6. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Its quite clear that alot of people just simply are not willing to try new things and revise new strats. There stuck being the one button wonders they once were.
    Before the combat revamp, the game was too easy, too bland, not enough challenge and was a button mashers game. Now its a hell of alot more challenging, you cant mash buttons with out thinking about it and blowing all your power then losing agro cause you cant taunt.
    Zhonata.......you think we have 1 AoE? This is a perfect example of people not understanding the class.
    People are ethier not even trying, or tried and failed and said " ok thats it i quit ".
  7. ARCHIVED-scl Guest

    Thats the funniest thing I've read all day! Are you serious or simply insane? Here's a small tip for you.. stick Rampage and unbridled fury on and open a fight with Stunning Roar... goodbye group. I've done upwards of 500 dps solo.
  8. ARCHIVED-Buggrit Guest

    The problem comes down to SoE in the end they rushed this game out to compete with WoW i mean they only tested the game for 2-3 weeks? i think that was how long beta was and it wasn't long enough thats why we had to go through this massive Combat change i think think they should of spent a little more time looking at the class's and designing them. If they had did that i don't think we'd have the problems we are facing right now


    I play WoW also and find it incredibly fun no its not exaclty balanced but fun:)

    to the people who say WoW is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] erm hello notice anything in Eq2 that seems familar ?

    In journal now says heroic quest if it is or not hmm wonder where that idea came from oh yeah WoW Quest journal
    Stances hey wait don't warriors get stances in WoW??
    theres other things i cannot be bothered to list

    The fact is WoW has over 4 million subsribers world wide were as Eq2 only has 400 thousand probally less u could argue the fact there asian but hello they have the choice to play Eq2 also?

    It seems to me the Eq2 designers are trying to make it more like WoW if u remember the promise there will never be any pvp in Eq2 and now we have duels granted its not real pvp but its still pvp which they said would never happen.

    The main reason people left Eq2 for WoW was because of pvp and other things the fact is what it all boils down to is Eq2 rushed there game out to soon it wasn't balanced people left for WoW and now there trying to remedy it.

    Im pretty sure they knew they were going to loose people with these combat changes but also gain people i guess they wouldn't of done if they thought they were going to loose more people than gain?
  9. ARCHIVED-konofo Guest

    I was in beta from July 10 (2004) until release, which was right around four months. That would have been enough time, except they had a very large number of fundamental changes in the final weeks of beta, similar to what we just saw at the end of DoF beta. Let's just say this was not the first combat revamp, and I don't expect it to be the last.
    najena.konk
  10. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    "Has anyoen tried dueling well i have i have battle almost every class and every class has a leg up on us because they have class dfining attributes. I can jsut about kill ever class..... that is jsut about ever class i have fought i have gotten RED everyone of them but as is we do not have the abitlty to finish of any one of them."

    Um yeah I have...a 50 wizard, 50 warden, 50 inquisitor, 50 brigand, and 50 bruiser...and I beat all of them (I was 50 myself at the time). Go figure...there must be something seriously wrong with you. Maybe you just suck at the game, ever thought about that?
  11. ARCHIVED-Ellowan Guest

    The problem comes down to SoE in the end they rushed this game out to compete with WoW i mean they only tested the game for 2-3 weeks? i think that was how long beta was and it wasn't long enough thats why we had to go through this massive Combat change i think think they should of spent a little more time looking at the class's and designing them. If they had did that i don't think we'd have the problems we are facing right now.

    Dude, WoW was rushed... period. At the end of beta, they opened up the hunter class, they had spent no time at all on it, they just stuck it in right before release. In fact they wree not the only class that was rushed. Paladins, throughout beta, did not even talents. In fact, noone at blizzard even plays one nor has, with the exception of Fangtooth, who just recently made one and is like level 14. WoW has had to do so many "balance" patches and nerfs because they rushed the release and released classes that do not function properly and have skill trees and traits that do or did, not work. Just now recently thety are admitting this, only due to people pointing it out constantly.

    The fact is WoW has over 4 million subsribers world wide were as Eq2 only has 400 thousand probally less u could argue the fact there asian but hello they have the choice to play Eq2 also?

    SoE has a big base of asian fans? They have eq cartoons and cereal and other merchandise that is all over households of korea and other countries? I know blizzard does. Its not uncommon to turn on the tv and see people playing starcraft. They have all kinds of money pouring in from these countries. Does SoE get funded from these as well? Probably not.

    It seems to me the Eq2 designers are trying to make it more like WoW if u remember the promise there will never be any pvp in Eq2 and now we have duels granted its not real pvp but its still pvp which they said would never happen.

    The main reason people left Eq2 for WoW was because of pvp and other things the fact is what it all boils down to is Eq2 rushed there game out to soon it wasn't balanced people left for WoW and now there trying to remedy it.


    This game is nothing like WoW. In WoW i can be level 60 in a 1.5 weeks. I am level 30+ by day 2. This is with work and school. EQ2 is nothing like that. Everything is completely candyland there. In EQ2 you can actually get lost. In WoW you are guided step by step through every little thing. Not that this is a bad thing, dont get me wrong.

    PvP? EQ has always had some form of pvp whether it be dueling or a pvp server or a guild war on a non pvp server there was always some form of it. As for duels, that was to be expected from day1, seeing that dueling is not pvp at all. If anyone rushed a product it was WoW. MAny classes were completely useless up until these past couple months. You mention balancing? I see 3x the amount of classes available to play in eq2 vs WoW and not all are the same builds. In WoW practically all classes are clones of everyone else. The differences being race. Why? Lack of Balance. i.e. level 60 feral druids. The only person who would play one, would be somoene that is anti guild, anti intelligent and or stubborn. Why ? because it does not work, and it makes the character worthless to end game content events. Thats just an example. Go play WoW though, have fun.

    Message Edited by Ellowan on 09-20-2005 09:14 AM
  12. ARCHIVED-kr8ztwin Guest

    was messin with buffs and equipment yesterday and I don't see why ppl say we suck so bad as tanks in general. I am in treasured and legendary eq (no fabled) and I can buff my avoidance to 44.5% and my mitigation to 2100 and 3800hp. (more with the 30s 1.5min recast mit buff). I've checked stats on other classes with comperable eq (ie paladin and guard) and these stats are very similar (and even better). With a re-check avoidance buff from an off-tank and proper healing, why shouldn't we be able to raid tank like anyone else? Maybe I need to do more research heh.
    I know right now raids are either buggy or theres a trick we don't know yet though because raid mobs are just slappin the heck outa everyone. heh.
  13. ARCHIVED-Wolfmist Guest

    I'm not sure if it's just that lower level zerkers are having trouble or what, but I'm doing great. I can tank well and do damage, so for me it's great. If there is higher DPS in the group I use more defensive arts and still do very, very well. However, I wouldn't think of tanking in a high level large raid. That's a guardian's job anyway and I could do more damage. I do like to off tank when we get more than a few after us and it works out well.

    There seems to be a few disgruntled people, but I'm not one of them. I think SoE did a great job.
  14. ARCHIVED-Buggrit Guest

    ok so i agree with you there yes WoW was rushed and so was EQ2


    yes i meant Eq2 was rushed in they made last minute changes and only tested them for a week i didn't auctally play beta im just going from what i have heard:)

    however u can't deny they said Eq2 will never have pvp and a couple of months later we have pvp so to speak
    they realised alot of people left chose WoW over Eq2 because of pvp

    There are WoW european servers and american WoW servers atleast 1 million-1.5 million europeans play WoW the asians play on the american WoW so they throws that argument out the window

    the fact is they have ripped things from wow but there again WoW has ripped things from the orginal everquest

    My main point was if they had not rushed them last 2 weeks and took abit more time testing and designing we would not have this great combat revamp
    as for me i quit my berserker and made like 40g from all his legendary gear and now have a lvl 21 Assassin Which i am having alot of fun
  15. ARCHIVED-Zhonata Guest

    I am both serious and insane mate both good qualities for a beserker,

    First of all i am upset about the changes yes were they sudden yes did they change EVERYTHING that i have worked for for 8 months yes. I have a right ot be upset with this and i am but i have and still am tring to play with this class. ( with a monk to keep me somewhat sane on the side )

    Sci buddy im srry mate we have Stunning Roar, Beserk Ambush and Slaughter ( check there timers that hardly makes us king's). Rampage, Unbridle fury, amd Offending Defence (while are AOE's) are all dependant apon us being the tank which makes abosolutly not since at all since we are almost at the bottum of the tnking pole now. I stated quite clearly taht we do ALOT of dmg (outdmging most classes) when we are tnking but when we arnt we do around 100-150 dps that is it. When we are tnking we have 2 choices one we can fully tnk and take a pretty good beating (But still not as good as a Gurdian) but sacrifice anything resembling DMG or we can do dmg and sacrifice anything that resembles DEFENSE. Our abilty to hold aggro is soloy dependant apon getting the first hit in and being HIT we cant pull off fellow grp members very well ( if they have already acrued aggro)unless rescue is used obviously. I have played the chacter i have use the abilties and i have examained the output values this is all there is boys and girls. You denie any of what i jsut have said u either are full of it or havnt truly played the chacter.

    Which brings me to Dueling which is fun would be more fun if it was even. Ok lets look at our dmg is based off mostly being hit. Now scout can invis and do lots of dmg from that state. Mages can nuke us in 2 hits. Healers well are nightmare to all so enought said but mystics and defilers excepically cause there wards prevent our counter attacks from doing dmg. Finally other fighter we are outclassed by almsot all of them expecially Monks and bruisers. We really have no utilties and as i have stated before the combat regen is a joke. Now keeping in mind everyone i have faced aside from the monk i have brought down to red using various tatics and what not but none of this is with equipment changes. Now i have played arena alot with grps and am pretty sure that is funiest time i have ever had on my beserker i went 14/0 and was at least 6 above anyoen else at any match in my grp which means i was kicking a** and taking names, but then again this is a grped event and i was dependant apon my grp buffs.

    -Aonein- i understand the class perfectly well. What I have stated here is fact period plan and simple ( Good and Bad ) and in your next post, i would like you to address that fact that our dmg is relaint on us beign tnks but yet in SOE's grand plan we are almost at the bottum of the tnking pole. Where does this leave us in grp gasp* think about raids. Wow we bring str and 84 health per tick gasp* amazing. Dont take this personally but u seem to be the main defense for the changes so i want to see your explanation on this maddness.
  16. ARCHIVED-konofo Guest

    I'll go ahead and deny the highlighted portion, and risk your ire. :smileyvery-happy: Rampage and Unbridled Fury are not dependent on being in a tanking role, rather, they're actually more effective when you're not being targeted by every mob in the encounter.
    Rampage now triggers melee strikes, meaning that it is advantageous to be behind some or all of the encounter targets in order to prevent parries, blocks, and ripostes. Unbridled Fury is obviously best suited for a non-tanking role, because of the loss of defense.
    The only AE in our arsenal that depends on being in a tanking role is Offending Defense. Weapon Shield may also technically fit this description, since it can hit any of the mobs who are attacking you.
    najena.konk
  17. ARCHIVED-Poochymama p Guest

    The problem with that system is it doesnt work for raids. In a raid the only one of those classes that actually is usefull is the guardian.
    Even if we are th3 3rd best dps of the fighter class that still doesnt give us a usefull role in raids.
    The original poster is right. The only thing we can provide to raids is tanking, but if another class can do it better, then we will never even have the chance to have fun.
  18. ARCHIVED-Poochymama p Guest

    It doesnt matter at all if we do more dmg than them cause were not gona be invited to a raid to do dmg.

    Instead well just get some lame excuse as to why we cant come.
  19. ARCHIVED-scl Guest

    *looks at konofo, shakes his head and looks back at Zhonata* You didn't just write that did you? Tell me I didn't just read that... please!!
    I know you're just passing info on -Aonein-, so this isn't a go at you at all but that gauge is false. Heck, I know people who have chosen a pet to tank over a Paladin. *laughs*
    Message Edited by scl on 09-21-2005 09:17 AM
  20. ARCHIVED-scl Guest

    Actually, it does matter. As Stuntie said, we may not be able to take the punishment a Guardian can, but the mobs die quicker with us tanking. It kind of evens out you see. Healers have to heal quicker when we tank, but they have to heal less. It's called balance, remember... that thing the Dev's keep talking about?
    Message Edited by scl on 09-21-2005 09:23 AM

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