Going defensive or offense AAs?

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Laereneth, Feb 21, 2006.

  1. ARCHIVED-Laereneth Guest

    What are the general thoughts? Going offensive or defensive AAs?

    And more importantly, are there any number crunchers out there that can answer a few questions...

    First, which would provide more dps?
    STR line Weapon Expertise +2.8% crit/rank
    AGI line Dragoon's Cyclone +3% chance AoE on autoattack/rank
    WIS line Seasoned Veteran +2.4% DPS/rank
    INT line Double Attack +2.2% haste/rank

    Second, which would provide better tankability?
    AGI line Dragoon's Avoidance +1.5 defense/rank
    WIS line Unshakable +34 mitigation/rank
    INT line Parry +1.8% parry/rank
  2. ARCHIVED-Erick_Stormfury Guest

    well as a main raid tank, i'm going agility first.
    as i can approach max mitigation as it is. i'd rather increase my avoidance.
    on top of that, at the very end, you can get a 12 seconds of invulnerablity basically, where you parry all incomming attacks.

    -Erick
  3. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    It seems like all the different paths have some offensive and defensive abilities in them, not just one or the other. I know that most tanking zerkers will probably go with the wis path to get more mitigation, but that also comes with an increase in dps at the same time. Personally I am going with the full wis and sta paths because not only will I get some good offensive and defensive traits from them but I also like the final abilites in those paths the most, especially the wis one.
  4. ARCHIVED-AlawnGnome Guest

    Just wanted to warn you unless the change it you need a BUCKLER for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th sta AAs to work.
  5. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    ^ Yes, they did change it. Any sheild will work.
  6. ARCHIVED-AlawnGnome Guest

    It still says buckler on the screen. Has someone tested it or read a statement saying a tower shield would work?
  7. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    Kahlad said they had changed it. In any case I would not worry about it. There is no way they are going to force Berserkers and Guardians taking the STA path to use a buckler instead of a sheild. I guarantee it. It's either just a typo or they mean to say that you have to have *at least* a buckler equipped for it to work, a buckler being the lowest form of a sheild that we have the skill to use.
  8. ARCHIVED-Halcat Guest

    Not looking to start a fight and I have the up-most respect for Khalad, but I will believe they changed the STA line when I see it.
    My reason for saying this is that it plainly states "When BUCKLER equiped in secondary." I can not see why they would write it that way when the meant any shield would work. If that was the case, why wouldn't they just write "When shield is equiped in secondary?" This was a known gripe in beta right from the start and if they had mistakenly written it the wrong way they had pleantly of time to correct it.
    Also, if you look at all the other lines that require equiped items, they are all specific items, axes, spears, hammers, swords, not pierceing weapon, slashing weapon, crushing weapon.
    The first ability alone would be pretty close to a game breaker if they allowed any shield to be used. I believe (don't remember the exact numbers) it does 168-281 damage any time the caster OR enemy blocks, parries, ripostes, or deflects and has a 30 sec durration and 30 sec recast. 8 ranks of this is 1344-2248 damage every minute and it's almost guarenteed.
    Believe me, I would love to see this line be able to use any shield, but I highly doubt they are going to give something without some sort of compensation. I could be completely off base here, but this is my thoughts and again, I will believe otherwise when I see it.

    Oh, and as for the original question, I think you really need to decide which way you want to play, offensive or defensive. I know for me, I will be going defensive, as I have been doing much more tanking during raids. On the other hand, our other zerker is going offensive to be a melee group buffer and do some really nice DPS. In my opinion, either way is viable, it's just an matter of the role you want to play.
    Message Edited by Halcat on 02-22-200610:24 AM
  9. ARCHIVED-Pegesus11 Guest

    what would be even [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] logic in making all fighther who pick the sta line use a buckler. This is a misprint whether meaing sheild or minimum of a buckler. There is no compesation for any fighter to take this path and only be able to use a buckler. It would hurt the class more than anything.
  10. ARCHIVED-Halcat Guest

    Like I said, what I posted was my thoughts based on the fact that it was a known issue all through beta and was never changed. If they wanted to chage it, they had pleanty of time to do it. Nobody said that it was logical, it's just the way it is. It may change in the future and hopefully will, but until I see it I won't be taking the Sta line.
  11. ARCHIVED-Laereneth Guest

    I guess I was a little too open ended with my original post. Now that I think on it more, it really comes down to a couple questions...

    First, with the dps increasing AAs available, can a zerk really deal out some respectable dps (outside of the very nice dps we deal with our ancient line of CAs)? Or are you really barking up the wrong tree? And do you think going this route would hamper your role as a group tank?

    Second, as far as defensive goes, which do you feel gives the larger return on the buck, the defense, mitigation or parry AAs?
  12. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    Kahald played on beta and he said that they had in fact changed it to say sheild instead of buckler. I didn't bother to look when I was playing last night but I will when I log on tonight. If it still says buckler on live then I have no clue why but it HAS to be a mistake. The point of the STA line is to make you be more defensive so that's why several of the abilities in that line require a sheild to be used. They are not going to try to force Warriors taking the STA path to be more defensive to use a buckler instead of a tower sheild because that would be counterproductive.
  13. ARCHIVED-Kaleco Guest

    In response to Halcat's message...
    I am not sure how long you have played a Zerker, but I can recall a time when I would hit Rampage and it would literally do nothing! The ability would not trigger and I would do no damage with it. Sometimes it would do a little bit of dmg but poof early. This was back when it was a 1hr timer as well.

    The reason I bring this up is because you mention that the Dev's knew throughout beta that it said Buckler so they must have intended it that way. So I say to you, they knew Rampage was broken and unusable for months before they ever fixed it. Just because they "know" something really has no direct relation to whether or not its what it is intended to be.

    I tend to agree with the above posters. We are equipped with tower shields from the start and I believe that they intend us to keep using them. I am sure if they feel the ability is overpowered it will be nerfed into oblivion like Rampage and then brought up to a reasonable ability weeks after that lol.
  14. ARCHIVED-AlawnGnome Guest

    As of now it still says in game buckler. If its just a typo i wish they would change it. Also one of the spells is called "Buckler Reversal."

    Im not sure what is better defense or parry. Both should help avoid right?

    Message Edited by AlawnGnome on 02-22-200606:17 PM
  15. ARCHIVED-Tuddar Guest

    Parry gets checked before Defense. So increasing parry will have a larger effect then increasing Defense.
  16. ARCHIVED-atjtennis Guest

    I personally will be spending 24 points in the agi line and then wait and see what to do with my remaining 25 points. I've already got 4 point sin the first line of the agi tree.
    Stamina would be nice for when MT/raid MT but I know what Khalad said during beta that it could be any shield but I really think it is a buckler but again I'll wait and see.
    If it is a Buckler then I'll be going down the wisdom line or the intelligence line. The STR line in my opinion is the weakest line out of them all the end ability would almsot never be useful.
  17. ARCHIVED-Halcat Guest

    Kaleco,
    I have played a zerker since day one. I know the changes that our class has been through. I know how many times a number of our CA's were changed and I am not disagreeing that the buckler part of this AA should be changed. I am, however, saying that I am not quite so sure that the buckler part isn't intentional, at least for now.
    Again, my reason for thinking this way is that with Buckler Reversal is a really nice damage dealing AA that's almost guareented to hit. In return your giving up the extra defense you would get by having a tower shield equiped instead of a buckler. This seems to me to be typical EQ2 dev thinking. (Look at the penalties on Juggernaut for the extra chance to crit).
    Like I said earlier, I am not going to take the chance that the buckler part isn't intentional. I am not going to waste AA's points on a line that may end up being near usless to me. I will not give up using my tower shield for the extra dmg output. I play a tank and the defensive penalty that comes along with this line, as it is now, is to large for the benefit I will get from it. When and if they change it, I will think about putting points into the Sta line, but I will wait until I know for sure it was a mistake and that they are changing it.
    The key words here are I, me and my. I'm not trying to stop any of you from making your own decissions about this line.

    As for the OP, sorry for changing your topic again. To answer your second question, N MY OPINION (sorry for the caps, but I wanted to stress that), yes, going the offensive route is feesable. Berserkers still do really nice DPS and adding in the extra offensive AA's will only help to produce more damage. It should also not hurt your group tanking ability at all. You will still have everything you had before the AA's, so if you didn't have a problem tanking in a group before, you shouldn't have one now. In fact the extra DPS may help you tanking for a group. It may help to increase your hate by dealing the extra damage and will help to take down the mobs faster so you don't take as much damage.
    Message Edited by Halcat on 02-23-200605:26 AM
  18. ARCHIVED-gelgar Guest

    From what I saw on the Beta was that the more AA's you had, the more variety you got with weapon, or in this case, shield choice. Since I am going with Str and Agi for AA's, it don't matter to me either way, but on Beta, the more points, the better choice of abilities. Possibly you need 4 points to get the tower shield ability to work.

    Gelgar Deathbringer
    60 Berserker
    Knights of Dawn Fire
    Unrest Server
  19. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    Well I have only invested 1 point in the STA line so far. Maybe I'll just build up my WIS path for now until they change that wording from buckler to sheild in the STA line, but man I want that exta HP and the final ability of that line as well. FYI, the words buckler and sheild can actually be used as synonyms. And don't forget that our AA's are shared by Guardians so they would be getting screwed over as well, not just us. And I really don't think that's the case.
  20. ARCHIVED-Epyx Guest

    "on top of that, at the very end, you can get a 12 seconds of invulnerablity basically, where you parry all incomming attacks."

    i was very interested in this last rank AA, b/c mainly i had a ranger in eq1 that had the same skill(but for 30seconds, 1hour timer as opposed to 12seconds, 10minute timer) and this is monks tsunami. It's great for positioning and surving the first few seconds of barrage/rampage.

    But it says caster will be stifled for the duration of the casting, is that still in effect?

    100% auto parry is nice for 12seconds, but not being able to attack/taunt isn't, you still get hit for DD/dots/aoes, and you'll likely be healed from that, and if you can't taunt/hit/aggro for 12seconds, you'll prolly loose aggro to a healer or some other. (since you can't even get aggro from the reactive, taunting defense or insolent gib, since you'll be invuln)

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