Focused Fighter Feedback

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Xelgad, Jan 11, 2013.

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  1. Deathmagus Member

    Tbh there are enough other decent options in the tree that we don't really need something like that. Also, the HP buff would be raid wide which is more of a guardian thing imho. Another thing to consider is that such a change would not really help close the gap in Max Health between Berserkers and the other fighter classes since the % increase in max health would apply to everyone in raid. Although I will admit that the 5% MA granted by this ability is no longer really worth having in your spec unless you are poorly geared.

    I like both Jeering Onslaught and Utter Destruction the way they are. There isn't any great need for these abilities to not require a target to be cast. Also, Wall of Force has its uses despite not being extremely reliable until you have the PoW mythical. If the % max health req. was lowered then you'd simply be more likely to have the triggers used on something trivial, and if the ability were to be changed to absorb all attack then it may be deemed "over powered" by other fighters.
  2. Boli Active Member

    Item 1: Mitigation% and Block Chance count too "highly" on the item creation leading to a massive disparity of stats; these should be added as a BONUS and as "instead of".

    Item 2: The standard Rescue should be something like 12 positions by default

    Item 3: Rescue, Sneering Assault should have 20-25m range and unresistable.

    Item 4: Please *please* reduce the number of memwipes/blurs/shuffles on simple trash mob; Yes trash shoudln't just be faceroll but when every single trash memwipes it gets tiresome

    Item 5: Recklessness should NOT increase the incoming MAGICAL damage.. only physical. there is ZERO point to having multiple fighters in the raid with recklessness if reck one-shots the "un-needed" tanks on every AoE but wizards are fine.

    Item 6: Green tank adorns which level up on "damage taken" should be fixed to include warded damage and to significantly drop the damage needed.

    Item 7: percentage heals should NOT be able to be cast on the mob when the fighter is charmed (mainly a paladin/monk issue)

    Item 8: Hit rate NEEDS to be looked at. If scouts go below 95% they moan... and all they need is 15% accuracy and some s/c/p adorns to do it; in contrast a fighter needs significant investment and reforging in order to get 90% hit rate... and then some fights you just give the encounter another 20% block chance just "because". Fighters should NOT have to suffer bad hit rates as they stand in front of the mob.. I've bene raiding/grouping for years and you do not think my toon can adjust his fighting ability in order to get a better hit rate?

    Item 9: There is no reason being in defensive stance should get negative effects (e.g. hit rate) or offensive get negative effects (get hit more) just make it so they both give the benefits... and tanks can choose instead of feelign as if they are being victimized for doing so

    Item 10: Stop it with the stuns/stifles/whatever effects on the tank... we get it they are hitting us all fighter defensive stances should have a proc to make the tank be immune to ALL status effects for a short time. items such as a guardian myth and war runes should increase the duration of this proc.

    Item 11: please review hit boxes and/or knockbacks you have NO IDEA how infuriating it is in a raid to constantly spend the entire time repositioning the mob after every KB only to find you have to run halfway into the raid and back again to pull them out of the wall. they shoudl have a shorter "frontal" hit box to force them to move easier.


    Paladin Only:

    Paladin's need an extra short-term snap; on like a 30-45s recast and at least 3 positions or *something* right now out "big advantage" of having amends is pretty much meh as sustained agro is meaningless if the mob mem-shuffles every 20 seconds.

    Demonstration of Faith needs to be tweaked as right now its a ward for ~ 10% of your health the cast speed needs to be increased (so you'll cast it more e.g. I will cast it all the time if it was instant) or make it crit (for what good that is on wards these days)



    Erm that is all I can think of right now unless you can make it so tanks are not pestered constantly to run groups when they are on and blamed for everything ven if it wasn;t their fault?
    Cyrde and Tekadeo like this.
  3. Deathmagus Member

    Fighter ears are itemized poorly.. rings and wrists are fine. If you want to give up reuse for some MA/Flurry by wearing scout wrists be my guest... But don't try getting my reuse nerfed.

    Rather than asking to have 12 positions on Rescue you could try hitting the mob before casting it.

    That would be rather OP imho. It's simply not needed. It would also spoil the fun of chasing the adds on Glokus when they try to dash for the MT grp.

    I haven't noticed any real issue even with -20% to 2.2% hate mod.

    I do not agree with this... It's up to your healers to keep you alive through the extra dmg taken or for you to joust if they can't.

    I actually get great amusement from watching monks and paladins healing raid mobs.

    This has been an issue for a long time. However, with the addition of reforging there is less of an issue.

    So.. you're asking for all fighters to get a warrior tree endline for free. That sounds fair.

    With all of the current options available endgame for immunity procs there is no real issue. Also, all tanks have abilities to combat control effects. Guards have their mythical, zerkers have the new prestige, crusaders have their self break and grp cure, monks have a self cure, brawlers have a self immunize and self cure.

    This has been an issue for years. Mob pathing has never really been good. It's simply something to get used to. Also, until SOE stops giving us mobs that are so over sized this issue will likely continue.
  4. Silzin Active Member

    I agree with most all of what Boli said, this would help all tanks i think.
  5. Liav Active Member

    Bruiser class tree endline 'Control Hate' increases threat position when in Recklessness. Since Recklessness = Offensive, I'd like to see the dehate component fixed to work properly in that stance.
  6. Troubledoer New Member

    Sorry but i cannot agree with you at all on the sk proc... Explain to me how it is ok to have 300-600dps (Solo parse numbers but it doesn't increase very much in groups) proc with an almost non existant increase to hate proc. Even if it was permanent like the Berserker one it would simply not be noticeable. This is excluding the fact that sk's dont get anything defensive from their myth besides a clickable taunt that does not work sometimes and a lot of the time you don't see a stoneskin from it (that's not to say you never will just normally you don't).

    For the monks out there, the mythical doesn't give them anything that a little reforging wouldn't which seems extremely lackluster to me for what are supposed to be class defining or a big boost. Adding a clickable effect would probably be a big change however they deserve at least some sort of damage reduction.
  7. Tekadeo Active Member

    Seriously people stop C-blocking other players' suggestions. They are suggestions. Make your own or move along, but please stop being counter-productive to what Xelgad is trying to accomplish here.

    Also, Tanks should ALL be responsible for 100% of their aggro instead of relying on utlity classes to do it for them. Healers don't NEED utility classes to successfully do their #1 main goal as a class. Would definitely make the game more fun from both a Tanking and DPSing standpoint.
  8. Erszebeth Active Member

    My suggestion for 5% HP on destructive rage over the useless MA is what came to mind, if you have something better, please, share, but I fail see how 5% more HP not just for us, but for the group/raid could possibly be a bad thing.
  9. Rhita Member

    Raid hp buffs are more for a guardian, a berserker should increase the dps of the raid in some way.
  10. Rhita Member

    Actually, a healer can heal even more with the right buffs, dps can dps even more with the right buffs. So to say tanks should be responsible for 100% of their aggro when no one else is responsible for 100% of what they do is asking a bit much.
  11. Netty Member

    agreed. I think its good to a point that you have classes with transfer and so on. If they removed it all and gave fighters all the tools they needed they would have to balance around some of the other classes aswell.

    Also 5% max health on the raid buff is more of guardian thingie imo agree with that. But tbh something els should be added to the raidwide. 2,5 flurry, AoE radius, or just make it MA and dps on the buff with that AA.
  12. Rhita Member

    I've actually been thinking of that, something that I thought of would be 2-3% BASE crit bonus/pot. Not OP, it scales, its dps, and it would be useful.
  13. Erszebeth Active Member

    I like that idea, the HP was just what I came up with off top of my head, I really had nothing in mind for what to replace it with and we're short on HP buffs anyways, so seemed like a good idea. TBH, I like the CB idea better tho.
  14. Rhita Member

    If you are looking for HP, they should add 5% hp to Blood Rage, berserkers are the only tank with no real hp buff. Adding it to blood rage would be ideal.


    EDIT: Also, I think all HP buffs should be changed to % based. With the stat changes hp jumped and the buffs didn't. Healer hp buffs should be a certain %. Guardian group hp buff should be % based as well. When your at 100k hp in raid. The guardian raid wide HP buff of 1k is rather trivial.
    Tekadeo likes this.
  15. Tekadeo Active Member

    Yes a healer can heal more with the right buffs, but they don't FAIL at successfully keeping a tank alive without said buffs. That is what I meant by Tanking and Healing are pass/fail: the tank holds aggro (not counting memwipes) and the healer keeps the tank/group alive (barring catastrophe/badtank). You win or you lose. DPS you can do 100k or 1million k, it's all good for most fights.
  16. Tekadeo Active Member

    While again this isn't what this thread is for (it's a balance thing, not a "fun" thing), I agree 100%.
  17. Erszebeth Active Member

    I think a semi-decent or good HP buff for zerk would increase their fun factor; it sucks a bit being in the same gear as another fighter and being farther down the HP meter then them.
  18. Estred Well-Known Member

    I am not saying they should compete with Grave Sacrament +Chaos Cloud. I am saying that Holy Ground does not feel as reliable as Grave Sacrament alone. Crusaders in general are not super equipped for mass-wiping bosses; that isn't really their thing. Brawlers and Warriors are a bit better suited for memwipe heavy bosses. I am more just saying "feels like" not "mechanically different/inferior" with these skills.

    Heroic for Crusaders is amazing with the group cure... the other two are a bit weak I will admit to that, again though... different topic. Though now I have page 3 to read.
  19. Estred Well-Known Member

    I don't most of that sounds like a general over-buff to tanks. Most of those would trivialize many class specialties. If you want Defensive to have no penalties and to give you Immunities... roll a Guardian and spec for it do not come here and ask for free buffs on the point of "it would help them all" because it sounds like lazy tanking to me.

    /negativity off (sorry some of those ideas really urked me)

    In response to the max HP of Zerks. Guards are also below Crusaders and Brawlers in many cases it's not just zerks, a potential solution for that was already suggested though. Many skills may seem to have no use but actually they just have very specialized uses. Like take the skill "Got Your Back" block's AE's for Fighter Allies... not at all useful for a non-raider. Is it a bad skill? No, though half the raid-bosses ignore it. However it is specialized. I would say though Warriors need a Max HP buff in their AA line and I would put it where the MA is in our STA Tree and place the MA buff in the WIS tree maybe paired with the dps-mod AA.

    Can't think of anything else important to say... I think I double posted though :oops:
    Edit: Yep I did sorry for that :D
  20. Boli Active Member

    Since what I said everyone hated I'm going to elaborate on it and my reasons:

    I did *not* include reuse in that; but +mitigation and +Block Chance count WAY too much on the item and their "points cost to buy them" should be reduced somewhat. I am not talking about anything major just having 1% flurry OR 10% Multiattack ADDED to tank items as well will allow tanks not to feel penalised that they choose the tank item over the scout. Right now every tank wants BOTH sets of items one for trash and one for tanking HM... whereas scouts only want one.

    Some classes can increase the positions of rescue; other classes cannot. Given how it is meant to be the "signature rescue" spell it seems stupid it is balanced only towards group content (3 base positions) and the fact pet counts on the agro list meaning a raid of 24 is closer to 30 after you include the 2 shamans, 2 beastlords and 2 summoners. Get dumped to the bottom of that and even AFTER DPSING for 5-10s you can still blow all your rescues and never reach #1. this is all down to the disparity of DPS currently in the game. where many HEALERS out DPS tanks.. especially if they are tanking a named and in defensive gear.

    If you have ever had to chase after a mob trying to get in the short range of a rescue/sneering you'll understand why; and having sneering miss as well it is an infuriating part of the game

    linked group of 3 trash memwiping individually every 10-20s ... seriously people want TRASH to be this hard/annoying/frustrating. Trash should all be about relaxing between named fights where people can DPS post some great parses and chat. having trash often more annoying than the named fight means raid/group zones are just infuriating

    There are many MANY trash AoE which cannot be timed (they all have their own individual timer) so in order to have a tank in reckessness even on trash you need one healer and themselves to be on permanent "deathsave watch" as all AOE damage is doubled. This is hardly an incentive to have tanks "unneeded" in a raid if you need to dedicate a healer to look after them....better just to get another DPS.

    This goes double on the named.

    If you think that's funny imagine a 20min fight which is healed through a charmed paladin/monk at 6% all the way to 100% which pretty much means monks/paladins are often left outside on those fights just for the CHANCE this could happen; I say that counts as irritating..for everyone involved not just those outside.


    Right now people do NOT want to use the defensive stance because of the reduction in hit rate I have to wear 4 adorns just to be able to tank in defensive reliablly and keep a decent hit rate; I've said for a while but this +c/s/p shoudl be on the tank's self buff not on the stances... increasing strength or maybe auto-attack modifier would be good on an offensive stance and DR best on a defensive stance... keep hit rate out of the stances.

    The warrior wisdom end-line needed to be looked at anyways; but lets say that it could "increase the benefits of the stances by 50% as your new endline. BAMN done!


    All tanks have ways to deal with these annoying annoying effects. BUY only the immunities are reliable. Crusader's Aura only works if you can dispell it leading every tank to look into getting the war rune or an item which procs immunity. Adding an effect to the defensive stance pushes tanks to tank in defensive a lot more.

    On a hit this spell will cast "immunity" on target triggers about 2.0 times a min, lasts for 7.5s
    * Makes caster immune to root, stun, stifle, fear, daze, disarm, interrupt, and memorize effects

    Guardian Mythical Buff:
    "Increases duration of Immunity buff by 10.0s and trigger chance by 0.5 (stacks with war rune)

    War rune (Astral Dominion)
    * Increases duration of immunity buff by 7.5s

    Crusader's Aura should be 90s recast and give 5s of immunity with no need to dispell so crusaders get a short respite from these (extremely annoying) effects guardians will hardly ever get them and every other tank will have an increased chance not to get them with the rune (up 50% of the time)

    I say that is fair. every one of these effects is extremely annoying... and simply due to our position as a tank we experience every single one of them multiple times in every fight... even some trash.
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