Focused Feedback - Mages

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Xelgad, Nov 14, 2014.

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  1. Pantz Active Member

    I asked Santa for you guys to fix the conjuror and necro pets :)
  2. Enigma Active Member

    I like the idea but the necro's essence of the ooze crawler will need to have it's entire ooze debuff component revamped since lots of it is just meaningless and the only real debuff effect would be the 1.5% incoming damage from all damage sources. I would actually prefer more group utility than a debuff on the mob. Something like lich form is is now group wide or consumption is now group wide and lasts for 2mins with an added pot/cb that builds up to 20 stacks.
  3. Cleaner Active Member

    DID Warlocks and Wizards get Nurfed? assassin and necro pulls 8-9mil single*** 10-12aoe-consistantly my wizard and warlock are only pulling 3-4 mil and 10 AOE-- SOMEONE SCREWED UP__ ! my sorcers last xpac was blowing everyone out of the water. i swear everytime they put out an expansion they screw up class balanced jerking us around like YoYo's. i personally getting tired of this some classes should be TOP some should Never be. no i am playing my necro and my wizard will probably not get touched. and they wonder why the servers are depleting at a rapid rate.
  4. Veta Well-Known Member

    I hate to be the rude one but since you are ranting/pointing and blaming Sony (" i swear everytime they put out an expansion they screw up class balanced jerking us around like YoYo's"), is it possible that you are out of the loop on sorcerer mechanics? Top tier raid guild sorcerers are doing well and in most cases "blowing everyone out of the water." I am sure many guilds can post parses where the T1 dps is dominating the parse including top tier raid guilds.
    Laiina likes this.
  5. Iseous Active Member

    Not sure about wizards, but a warlock should still be near the top for aoe. Although assassins can do insane aoe damage because of the new poison changes. It's a little ridiculous how much damage poisons do. They definitely need to scale it back a bit or let Skull Focii give 10-15% base potency per skull so mages get more passive damage (rather get a boost than nerf them). Necromancers and assassins might be a bit better on single target than warlocks, and maybe wizards too.
  6. Veta Well-Known Member


    Even then with all the debuffs that are applied to raids the ooze is useless anyways. Having a 1.5% increase to incoming damage from all sources would be the only thing that would make it relatively useful.

    If anything just make the aa a passive effect with no pet. The summoner then gains the effects of the passive, such as the base crit bonus and potency, and the chance to trigger the incoming damage or whatever benefits they would receive from the pet. For example, necroes would trigger the debuff and conjurors would trigger a ward off of combat hits, since we are looking at the abilities of those pets. This would allow for more defensive capabilities for the conjuror since stoneskins are relatively useless and geomancy only procs off physical damage which rarely occurs. This offers both classes more utility. This way all pet scripting would be taken out and the aa will still be rather useful.

    As far as reading Mogrim's posts, it would probably be a lot safer if the summoner's triggered the effect instead of the conjuror's pet. I am saying this because if it only applied to the pets, the necromancer is receiving less gains than the conjuror because the conjuror's pet does more dps than the necromancer's does. If it only gave gains to the summoner and not the pets then the necromancer is getting more gains than the conjuror, because the necromancer does more dps than the conjuror does. Allowing it to share through the summoner to the pet would skip a lot of future issues if this were to occur such as pets stats not being properly applied, effects not triggering properly, etc.
  7. Abasinolanam Active Member

    Respectfully disagree. Awesome? Not really. Sufficient? Sure. Needed? Absolutely not. The problem with coercers is not that you can't learn how to DPS with one, it is that DPS is the ONLY relevant thing you bring to the group/raid. And if DPS is the only thing you bring, then why settle for a coercer when you could have an actual DPS class taking the slot. For example, if you could have a coercer doing 9 mil or a warlock doing 18 mil. Who in their right mind would choose the coercer? You can't even talk about power feeds because the warlock feeds as well as, if not better than, a coercer. And if you really want an enchanter, an illy has equal power feeding, equal (or better) DPS but brings a lot more to the group.

    The coercer class certainly needs love, but it's not a matter of throwing more DPS our way. It's finding a reason why any group would want one. It used to be that the hate transfer was really needed, but that's just not the case anymore. A coercer is now nothing more than a 2H-wielding scout in cloth.
  8. Laserbeak Member

    Your mages must be bad friend.. I haven't seen anyone coming close to warlocks and wizards on aoe fights.. Or single target for that matter..assassin have somewhat a chance on single target..maybe a skilled ranger..but yeah mages still trolling.. I expect as gear comes preds and rogues will close the gap.. But we will have to see these new years changes they make to Ca's and stuff..before we know that. And hi veta! Heard u were kicking butt over in rev!
  9. Cleaner Active Member

    i never rant unless compared and tested among equally geared usually done in heroic gear with gear you can get from zones not raiding, we all know in raiding one person can get 1 piece of gear that gives them huge boosts in potency over another class/ toon. To be fair and balanced i compare same mobs same gear and sorry your wrong my friend even geared necro and assin outparses my wizard 8 times out of 10. AS for mechanics, I was blowing everyone out of the water on my 2 sorcerers last xpac so i don't think thats the issue at all.
  10. Kraeref Well-Known Member

    Good thing about coercers is a peaceful link. Still required. Our dps is situational. Nowdays I can outparse troubs. Sometimes get equal with illusionists. On linked trash i can go up to 12-16 mil when i try hard of course. If I am not trying then not. But I surely want to get my damage up not really trying like all other damage mages.
    Coercers definitely need love in dps department too.
  11. Enigma Active Member

    OR make dat vamp orb provide utility! every time you cast a ability it has a chance to summon a vampiric orb that sucks the life from your enemies and share it to the group! also granting cb/pot stacking up to 20 times! lasts for 2mins
  12. ruthless619 Member

    Might want to let my guild wizzie know he got nerfed because his parses didn't get the memo.....
    Xabbu and Laserbeak like this.
  13. Skitterfast Well-Known Member

    Ahh the good old days of grabbing all the LFG mages nobody else wanted and setting up camp across the zone from the person who responded "mages suck" when I sent a tell for his group. Thirty minutes later, a tell complaining we were killing the entire zone.

    On topic: there is no way a mercenary should ever be better than the conjurer's class defining feature.
  14. Justaddvodka New Member

    This is exactly the post I have been working on for a week lol PLEASE fix us!!! Our class has been far too broken for far too long.
    Easily Lost and Pantz like this.
  15. Kalika Well-Known Member

    It could be a gear issue. Recently i logged my necro for an heroic run, she usually does well, but the conjurer
    that day was really doing much more, like 30%-40% more than her. For sure conjurers are currently in a better
    state than necros but that was not explaining the gap.

    Checked parses, checked his AAs and mine and this was not explaining much.

    Then i checked his gear and found Vyvern charm and sontalak scale (salvo) = > i got my answer there (rest of of his gear was also marginally better than her).

    So there is no simple way to check, gear is so important that to compare two classes you would need to equip them both in
    yellow or blue or green gear + mastercrafted item and check on a dummy. Note also that group parses are quite biased due to synergies between characters.
  16. Character Member

    I would really like to see velocity reworked. Getting 117 MA is not difficult as that is the minimum needed to get 1 additional attack. I hardly ever have velocity cast anymore, due to concentration cost, in favor of casting a third peaceful link.
  17. Gnomad_Madgon Active Member


    I recently leveled up a coercer, and while I have not had a lot of time to play him yet I can say hands down Illusionist is much more enjoyable class to play. The primary reason I enjoy my Illusionist this expansion is the addition of Blinding Shock, and Unda Arcanus Spiritus. These new spells work very well with all of the previously existing Illusionist spells and abilities. For the coercer it is so much harder to maximize these spells with existing spells. Primarily shock wave, It is a solid spell but the recast does not line up well with either of the new enchanter spells and the range is only 10 meters from the coercer. In addition "for an enchanter" it has a very long cast time and can not be cast on the move. Ultimately a coercer will have a much harder time maximizing Unda by jousting in and out without totally botching thier casting order.

    • Adjust damage and recast of Shock Wave to better line up with Blinding Shock.
    • Allow Shock Wave to be cast on the run, or alter Peaceful Assault prestige to include a zero cast time for Shock Wave and Stupefy (only useful purpose Stupefy serves is clearing reuse timer on blinding shock, any mob that can be stunned is already stunned by Shock Wave, the stun it is redundant and will only extend the duration of the mobs condition by 1.4 seconds.)

    Stat priority for enchanters is clearly double cast and potency with the new prestige spells. This is true despite the fact that that both classes have high priority spells that are available as ancient spells that do not benefit from double cast. Illusionist - Prismatic Chaos VII, and Theorems VI. Coercer - Spell Curse VI, Hostage VII, and Destructive Mind VII.

    • I think it would be a welcome change to allow these spells and others like it to gain two additional triggers from double cast, much like they do currently from time warp.
    • The equivalent of the coercer spell, Spell Curse VI (trigger based) is Chromatic Shower V (DoT) for Illusionist it can be Double cast.
    I wish I had more time to work with the coercer class to provide some more quality of life feedback. I truly miss their debuffs in raid currently no one I know has any desire to play one.
  18. Abasinolanam Active Member

    For double cast to make sense on a coercer you'd need more than 3 spells to actually use it. If I remember correctly (it's been a while since I had any desire to play coercer) only Shock Wave truly took advantage of double cast, and that spell is dismal due to the long casting. Back when I was wearing an earring that allowed me to cast Shock Wave instantly after mana flowing my group, I was mana flowing just so I could cast it and its DPS was still dismal. Honestly, my feedback would be to make Shock Wave cast instantly (and therefore while running) and it will help the coercer's playability while not making it overpowered. I think asking for the other spells to doublecast would be too much because you'd have to change almost all of them. A single change to Shock Wave could be the most impact they can give coercers.

    I suspect potency may be the best option with the new prestige. Last expansion flurry gave the most bang for your buck because auto attack was by far the largest part of the coercer DPS.
  19. Jokirr Member

    Ok so one of the major problems with an instant cast Shockwave is one its a stun for 5 seconds, making it even more powerful solo wise, and second it wouldnt bring much dps for you.
    The prestige for the 50% damage increase makes it worth using, sure its still low priority but its not as bad as you think.
    Now to really get the most impact for coercer, you would need to let reactives spell double, the code is there with the inquisitor prestige so its not like it couldnt become a possibliy, however it would need to only add 3 triggers, reason is because they are a base of 3 to start off with, and so it doesnt sky rocket coercers in the utility dps game.

    Sadly this is what coercers have been wanting for years now and still falls on deaf ears, ive long stopped playing mine in a high raid setting as ive moved over to a warlock :D but still that is where coercers would see the biggest net gain for dps.

    @Xelgad If making reactives spell double cast is not possible could you explain why? If its a balance issue I'm pretty sure many would be ok with a damage hit just to make the stat have more value for them. I know I would be if I still played mine.
    Prrasha and Kraeref like this.
  20. Gnomad_Madgon Active Member

    I have to disagree in regards to the stun portion becoming over powered from a solo perspective. A coercer can keep a mob stun locked indefinitely with the spells they currently have. CC is not totally with out use, but it is a minor factor in most cases. In an aoe environment Shock Wave is a strong spell for an enchanter, the base damage on it is fairly high. The bigger issue is it just does not line up well, in regards to mechanics with the new coercer prestige spells. These new prestige spells is what helped me personally continue to enjoy my Illusionist. I like the idea of using movement to optimize damage output. I was becoming extremely bored with my Illusionist in ToV.

    I agree Time Warp will also double the base triggers of these spells. It is one of the biggest disconnects for both enchanters and why people argued flurry vs. spell double in the past.

    • Enchanters have the lowest base weapon damage out of all mages and scouts, even with the AA points spent in Quickening. This means flurry has less impact for them then it does for all other mages and scouts.
    • Both enchanters have high priority spells that are trigger based. This means double cast will has less impact for them then it does for all other mage classes.
    I certainly don't think all enchanter spells and abilities need to be on par with the other DPS classes in game. BUT I do think that two of the strongest and hardest stats to cap should provide the same impact as these stats do for the other classes.
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