Focused Feedback - Fighters

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Xelgad, Nov 14, 2014.

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  1. Silzin Active Member

    Yes i meant Too. as is there are too many moving parts and there was a one time a VERY large thread that is not available and is now out of date.

    I will admit that completely re-doing Avoidance may not work, but i think it needs a work over. Also i agree that the Arm's Race of Tanking verse raid named needs to come to an end. the existing "Temp or Die" Raiding that has been building from the end game around SF down into the AoM T2 Heroic zones... IS NOT FUN. I and a lot of others have and do deal with it, but i do not think that very many tanks Like having to deal with it.
    Llwellyn likes this.
  2. Estred Well-Known Member

    Correct, it was a PAIN in chain's of eternity (last expansion I was a guilds Primary Tank instead of Backup-MT/Situational-MT like during Generals in ToV). Tanking right now is playing Russian Roulette, except every chamber is loaded and has infinite ammo. The trick is to swap out your Kevlar helmet fast enough that you're not shot.
    Llwellyn, Silzin and Malleria like this.
  3. xkrisx Well-Known Member

    Good example :)
  4. Genghes Active Member

    I'm not trying to troll or be smug, but I'm not seeing what you are all talking about. One shots on random damage really aren't a factor this expac. The only things I've seen that can potentially kill you with out a temp are the barrage attacks that raid names have. Luckily you can make an act timer and temp accordingly.
  5. xkrisx Well-Known Member

    Genghes, from most Bruisers that I have seen via EQ2U vs your character, you have a fairly large gear gap on them. This is not to say that you cant get equivalent gear from going 4/4 Green Malice Gear and Heroic Jewelry but, alot of players who didnt start the expansion with good gear I could see having problems getting through the zones that offer the better armor tiers.

    However, I can say that people need to quit grasping at old Jewelry and Armor and get the new stuff. The base mitigation values are alot higher and the resists on jewelry will make a HUGE difference in the amount of damage taken. Even the Barrage damage Genghes mentioned is mostly magical damage and can be lessened with higher resist values.
  6. Clevemo Active Member

    It is difficult to be KO'd this expansion when your entire raid is wearing a 5% max HP charm Genghes and your HP is 8 million ...

    I wasn't lamenting the ability to take a hit this expansion, but rather the capability for my class to keep up with the increases of threat generation from the DPS classes. I've seen a few players double their top-end parses from last expansion and we're not even 2 months into this expansion. It is ridiculous to think that this trend is sustainable.
    Daalilama and Llwellyn like this.
  7. Silzin Active Member

    the fact that having each person in a raid to have the 5% Max health is needed... is ridiculous.
    Daalilama likes this.
  8. Genghes Active Member

    We only have 5-8 people wearing the 5% max hp charm at any given time during raids. With that and my own personal jewelery pieces for max hp procs in not getting K.O'd. Sure it's everyone was wearing those then yes the entire raid force would be stacked.
  9. Genghes Active Member

    Being guard with your ability to threat transfer you shouldn't be having issues agro.
  10. Clevemo Active Member

    Yea, "shouldn't" but its happening ... The idea that I need to rely on someone else in order to retain aggro on an NPC is ridiculous. My class ought to be fully capable of maintaining aggro with 100% hate gain, 100+ strikethrough, 60% accuracy. Taunts get resisted or I miss my auto attacks ... its dumb. All fighters are struggling with the lack of Potency, but my CAs don't do enough damage therefore even the suggestion of a 500% potency increase through gear modification doesn't fix the underlying problem. I wouldn't be able to take an advantage of the potency even if it were available because I have no free stats to reforge for ability mod. My weapon skill levels are absolute garbage and that's game itemization.

    Estred was right when he said, fighters are the archetype that has to consider maxing out the most skills ... avoidance (contested/uncontested), mitigation, hp, weapon skills, hate gain, strength, strikethrough, accuracy, reuse, dps mod, ae auto, flurry, wdb.

    If we lack in just a few of the skills listed above, you're going to fail.
    Regolas, Daalilama, Silzin and 2 others like this.
  11. Estred Well-Known Member

    A Fighter should not "require" another to hold aggro. That means if their "transfer" dies they lose aggro and the raid wipes. That's bad design as it puts the job of "holding aggression" on someone other than the one doing the actual Taunting.

    Shoulder the Burden should ASSIST in holding aggression. It shores up weaker Players and it bolsters the Strong to do some crazy things depending on how they play and their Target plays.
    The same is true for Amends and the Paladin Class. Assuming they aren't already capped out.

    I as a Fighter Class, should be the one responsible for my Aggression and position on the Hate List. Scouts or Mages using De-Positionals should be for when I make a mistake, the Encounter has a Memwipe or if they spike too hard during a DPS-Phase. If those don't work, I have my own Positionals to raise myself back. That is what positional's are for, pulling back during high DPS spikes if DPS > Aggression.

    We have tools and relying on others to manage our hate for us is wrong. We rely on other classes to:
    - Heal us when we take damage (Priests)
    - Remove debilitating effects and curses (Priests/Mages)
    - Revive us while protecting our allies in our absence (Priests)
    - Debuff our opponents with strong debuffs (Enchanters/Bards/Rogues)
    - Deal high damage to our opponents so we don't spend an eternity beating on it (Predators/Sorcerers/Summoners)
    - Control foes and Bolster our allies (Bards and Enchanters)... though this isn't used as much anymore.

    OUR job is:
    - To prevent Damage Spikes from killing us and wiping the raid (Temps)
    - To hold Aggression so our High-Damage allies can destroy our foes.
    - To bring a reasonable form of damage to the table to assist our allies in destroying our foes.
    - To protect our allies from destruction (group saves or heals/buffs)
    - To control the encounter via positioning to ensure our allies are in the best position to do their respective jobs with minimal risk.

    A Fighter is about control and not the same kind of control as Enchanters used to have. It's our job to control and bring decent damage. We will never be doing the DPS of Sorcerers, Summoners, Predators... heck we probably won't be doing the DPS of Enchanters and Bards though it would be nice to be on the same tier as Enc/Bard. I however, do not want to be out DPS'd by my PRIESTS.
    Llwellyn, Daalilama and Wurm like this.
  12. Silzin Active Member

    I think that if we have in a addition to our existing stats the following it would help the fighters aver all:
    - Pot on all armor, and Clocks/Belts.
    - Weapon and Casting Skills everyone there is Def Skills (and Clocks and Belts).
    - Auto Attack Stat and Casting Stat on each peace of armor.

    Alternatively instead of all of the weapon Skills, reduce the avoidance/resist Package on all mobs and named.... All of them. After all, we have to HIT in order to do our job, and we have to have the tools to do our job.
    Daalilama likes this.
  13. Meshuggahx Member

    SK: Please make Bloodletter to be able to recast in combat!
  14. Wurm Well-Known Member

    Please change the Paladin debuffs to be Divine Damage (which I was sure they used to be) so we can use the new fragment crafted items. For example:


    Unless Divine now counts as a type of arcane damage then please disregard.
  15. Nezette Well-Known Member

    Yes, divine is a type of arcane.
    Arcane = Divine and Magic (and Zap)
    Elemental = Heat and Cold (and Burn)
    Nox = Poison and Disease (and something that I can't seem to recall atm)
    Magical = all of the above

    (Or something like that...)
  16. Wurm Well-Known Member

    OK I wasn't sure if they changed it or not.
  17. Nezette Well-Known Member

    Oh, they probably did. Like, Mark of Divinity used to debuff Divine only, now it's a general arcane. The change just debuffs a bit more. Before, you were basically just debuffing for yourself and... the templar (idk who else does divine damage... maybe inq non-CAs?). Now, you also get the mental of a troub, illy, coercer... and all the other arcane based stuff.

    (Also, I can't edit above... where I said "magic" next to divine, I'm fairly certain I meant mental.)
  18. Prrasha Well-Known Member

    You meant both. Arcane = divine+mental+magic, Elemental = heat+cold, Noxious = poison+disease, Physical = crush+slash+pierce, "All Magical" = arcane+elemental+noxious.

    (In-game, "magic" damage seems to be the descriptor for both "pure mana damage" and some "electric/lightning damage" effects. Other lightning effects are "heat".)
  19. Arrarik New Member

    I haven't read all the suggestions on this thread, so please forgive me if this has already been thrown in the hat. It would be really nice if the Virulent Ire / Wrath proc that is on a few AoM rings in this expansion (and has been on red adornements/war runes in the past) to be a purple rune in this Current Expac.

    I sometimes use the Virulent Band of Interception in groups, and hesitate to use it in raids. It would be great if that ability (Ire positional proc) was on a purple Adornment I could equip to a Bow. Then we could swop it out mid combat after gaining aggro in a heavy tank swop fight (Without the chaos and frustration).

    I think it is something that would help all fighters that raid, and want that proc / ability on the side if needed. It would even be relevant in groups to swop out to on fights.
  20. Arrarik New Member

    Alright I have another feedback for you guys, wish i would have thought of this sooner. The Smoldering Adornment of Avoidance (3% Riposte Chance) Neck White Adornment slot lvl 70.

    Being that new gear this tier only has 1 white adornment slot on it (unless ranged etc) Could we get an upgrade for the Level 100 gear? Having a hard time taking off my pardus pred choker from Fabled Labs becuase it has 2 white adorn slots so I have the 6% riposte chance. If I swop it out for new necks I lose 3% riposte.
    konofo likes this.
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