Focused Feedback - Fighters

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Xelgad, Nov 14, 2014.

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  1. Prrasha Well-Known Member

    All tanks (and, potentially, all classes): please fix TAB targeting.

    There are currently items and AA that have scaling effects based on how many mobs are fighting you. So I know the game knows "which mobs have Prrasha on their hatelist."

    Targeting effects currently change if you fight a linked encounter; TAB cycles through that linked encounter until all of them are dead. Fighting a similar number of unlinked mobs does not lock targeting. So I know the game knows "how to change targeting behavior based on what I'm doing."

    What I would like is for TAB to work as it does now when I'm not fighting (cycling through everything targetable in view). But, once I start fighting (or even "once something has me on its hate list"), STOP cycling to things that DON'T have me on their hate list.

    If six wolves have surrounded me and decided that I am tonight's dinner, it makes no sense that I would choose to focus on anything but those six wolves. I certainly would not start blasting the friendly guard on the next hill. I have no idea why I would target the well-out-of-range badger three hills over. I absolutely would not start looking for fayberries on the bush behind the wolves. I really wouldn't even consider examining the clickable rope coiled up on the ground, or talking to the quest NPC hiding in the cabin behind me. I would worry about the six wolves attempting to consume my spleen.

    (For extra credit, have TAB cycle through "everything that hates my group" or "everything that hates my raid" rather than just "everything that hates me". But just "me" would be 1000% better than the current implementation.)
    ColorsFade, Kalika, Llwellyn and 2 others like this.
  2. Malleria Well-Known Member

    I'm still hoping bruisers will get another defensive temp to plug up the gap in their rotation. A decent damage reduction, more stoneskins, something. Or lower the reuse on some of our other temps to fill the gap. It's very obvious we're hurting in that regard when you get into the SSRA zones. Earthen Behemoth for example, even after you reduced it's damage, hits too hard and strikes through too much to be effectively tanked by a bruiser without a perfect group set up. I can keep up 23sec of immunity, then 3 stoneskins, and then 3 death save triggers, and then I'm basically naked. The stoneskins and death saves are gone very quickly since he's striking through 80-100% of the time depending on how well your group is dealing with the adds. There are item clickies for damage reduction sure, but after those are gone their reuse times are prohibitively long. My best attempt with my regular group is 50%. That includes both healers death saves and some lucky combat rezing. That's averaging 2.5mil hp and 20k mit. Sure I could bring in a channeler and a templar and probably survive, but I don't think Temple is far enough along in the zone progression that it should require the perfect combination of classes to finish.

    Inner Sanctum on a bruiser is just a joke. It really doesn't matter if your group passes or fails the fail conditions, cause the tank is going to die either way. The event heroic is about the only SSRA that lets me complete my temp rotation, but even then, with everything lasting it's maximum duration, I'm sitting there with a 20-30sec gap the first round, and even longer about a minute later.

    This is the first time I'm seriously considering betraying to monk. At least then we could make some progress. It really sucks playing with the same group for years and not being able to progress any further because we've suddenly become the wrong group makeup.
    Shiloh likes this.
  3. Nezette Well-Known Member


    My QoL is still affected by tanks not being able to hold aggro in heroics without the troub/coercer/dirge super-group-dream-team combo.

    Please make them suck less. TY!
  4. Silzin Active Member

    from looking at things in raid tonight... i think a large part of the problem tanks have is hit rates. there is no Weapon Skills on tank Jewelry or belt/clock. even with 60%+ Accurate and ~80% ST i was still seeing hit rates of around 60%. unless the Devs really intent on us getting 100/100 of both.... its not going to happen... hit rates need to be worked on. Also put Pot on all Gear to help the dps and taunts on our abilities.

    these 2 things i think would be fast fixes and would go a long way to helping tank agro.
  5. Estred Well-Known Member

    Potency would greatly help Taunt values as well a yeah... hit rates. As Clevemo and myself pointed out with Guardians and I am sure other Fighters have the same, many Group Buffs are outdated. Having Weapons Skills, Accuracy, Strikethough, Resists or things on our buffs would be more in-suit for today.
  6. Prrasha Well-Known Member

    That's a big problem with their current itemization technique. "All items dropped by the xpac's toughest mob, Schnott the Nose-Picker, will get 1000 points of goodness." Well, that's great if you're a scout who can cap ALL their abilities if their equipment has 1000 points each. But fighters need EVERYTHING scouts need, Plus strikethrough, plus all their defensive stuff, so they would need items, with, say 1300 points of goodness to cap everything.

    Until "Tank" items get MORE points than "Scout" items to balance this out, this will ALWAYS be broken. Tanks will be X% less effective than all other classes in "equivalent" gear. (We've seen the first vague nod in this direction with that "fighter's potency" chest adorn... but that's one small step on a long road.)
    Malleria likes this.
  7. Kalika Well-Known Member

    Please repost your funny writting about TAB and the six wolves example in the interface feedback. The way cycling works is one thing i hate.
    ColorsFade likes this.
  8. Arclite Well-Known Member

    I am sure Xelgad is jotting down everything said in this thread :)D) but it will be nice to know what your plans are for this.

    Not to sound too negative but i feel that a post by SOE something on the lines of....:"Please keep the thread focused on the issues pertaining to current expansion only. We have no plans on fixing the old content..." may be on its way.
  9. Prrasha Well-Known Member

    It was there first, actually. I've posted something like that several times over the years, on this forum and the previous ones. Eventually it'll work.:D
  10. Shiloh Member

    Just out of curiosity...what`s the 23 secs of immunity you mean here?
  11. Azian Well-Known Member

    Xelgad didn't ask for this thread to be exclusive to AoM feedback.This is an anything goes kind of a thread. :) I did chuckle at "jotting down"comment. :)

  12. ColorsFade Active Member


    This is a very useful defensive ability up to about level 95. Then it is absolutely, totally worthless. If you're using something like the DragonwulfUI to track spell durations, you will see this spell as useful up to level 95. Cast it and watch the ward duration decrease as mobs hit you. But try casting it at level 96+ and it is gone in the first hit. Pointless.

    Now, my personal preference for fixing it would be to alter it with a prestige AA from AoM, so that the total warded amount is switched to be either a percentage of health range, or the total warded amount is based off the primary stat (STR or STA, take your pick). If it were to be adjusted via a prestige AA from AoM, then it could be contained to level 96+. Everyone level 95 or lower gets the old, useful (but not overpowered) ward, and everyone 96+ gets something useful again.

    Agreed, numbers are so small as to not mean anything 96+. Some sort of health-percentage-range, or based on STR/STA (like the way Legionnaire's Wrath works, where it based on a percentage of STR).

    Something... anything to bring this in-line with current numbers.

    Agreed. And Aura of Leadership could use the same help as well.


    I wouldn't try and compare DA to any other class's saves to make a point (your argument isn't wrong, just the path you take to get there, IMO). Each class's saves must be balanced against the other saves of that same class. What we have to look at is, how does DA work with the rest of our saves, as Paladins? Where does it fit in, and does it fill a need/role?

    What does DA do for us? It is basically a "save" against a lot of mobs attacking at once, in a heroic setting; it reduces damage. The recast is high, I'd agree. But it's not meant to be a save against one-shots. It's meant to be a save against a lot of other stuff hitting you for smaller damage. It's a heroic/solo save, not really a raid save against one-shotting mobs.

    So let's see where that fits into our saves.

    Stonewall, Crusader's Faith and Devout Sacrament/Divine Knight's Armor are three of our best (I don't really consider Legionnaire's Conviction a "save" at all, but that's my opinion).

    Stonewall is useful against physical attacks and is our best "save" in that regard, but it's only against physical attacks. It's not a one-shot stopper, but probably the closest thing we have.

    Faith has it's uses, but you have to be putting out high enough DPS to make it offset what you're taking in. In certain situations, this isn't much of a save and in others it is good. Again, Heroic content, this is a good save. Against one-shots? Not so much.

    Devout Sacrament/Divine Knight's Armor is almost akin to Divine Aura, but has way better recast/resuse abilty. And with Holy Alacrity we have chance (slim, has never worked yet for me, despite 10% "chance") to reset the cooldown of Devout Sacrament. As a damage reducer, this is a good one.

    Given DS/DKA as a 50% damage reduction combo, I'd like to see Divine Aura changed to fill a different role, something we currently don't have, and that's a one-shot damage reducer. It would be a good change to switch DA to be used as a full immunity to damage for 10 seconds. Dragoon's Reflexes, as an example of such a save, has the disadvantage where if you cast a CA, it cancels before its 12 seconds are up. DA could use the same sort of weakness to balance it out. It already has a long recast timer on it... Seems like an ideal candidate, to me, to alter it and turn it into something useful, something that fills a role that our other saves can't perform.

    As it is, it's a save that doesn't get used a lot. DS/DKA does basically the same thing by reducing damage 50%, and the recasting is better. It would make more sense to have DA fill a different role.
  13. Estred Well-Known Member

    I suppose in keeping with QoL changes, I should bring up again this small fact:
    In Default, Drums and ProfitUI (three of the top UIs) I think some use DragonWulf too but I've not seen it. In these UI's we cannot track our Maintained very well. I would prefer a few things to the current situation.

    1: Things like Sentry Watch, Tower of Stone, Last Man Standing and Perfect Counterattack do not show how many Triggers remain on the effect.
    2: Permanent buffs, they clog out the Maintained Window. Would it be possible to get a new UI Element specifically for Maintained Non-Duration Spells such as Stances, Raid/Group Buffs that are passive.
  14. Malleria Well-Known Member

    Impenetrable Will (13) + Unyielding (myth click, 10). With 10 points spent in the dragon tree to extend durations. As I noted earlier Tag Team used to protect against strikethrough, but he manages to hit through it now. Unyielding's reuse as it is means this is basically a one time thing.
    Shiloh and xkrisx like this.
  15. xkrisx Well-Known Member

    Ya know, if they fix one thing on the Brawler Class, I hope its the duration/reuse to Unyielding so we can finaly line back up with Monks.
    Shiloh and Malleria like this.
  16. Genghes Active Member

    Mechanically the bruiser class isn't ment to have dodge/parry temp hit as soon as it's up or right after another. The class is best played when you use a temp to allow healers to catch up on heals and wards
  17. Malleria Well-Known Member

    That works fine when individual hits only account for 50-75% of a tanks total hp. When it gets above that the time between hits often isn't sufficient to reapply enough wards/heals to cover the next hit. Especially when mobs have the possibility of multi attacking. There are unfortunately some mobs currently that will one or two shot in short order and at that point a proper temp rotation is nedeed. Bruiser temp rotation has gaps that start to require specific group makeups to fill. Other classes (namely our counterpart brawler) have a much more self sufficient rotation which promotes pugs and other non-specific group makeups.

    I haven't been back in to heroics since the patch though so will have to see how things fare now
  18. Genghes Active Member

    I am curious, are you using all mit armor or a mixture of block and mit?
  19. Malleria Well-Known Member

    All mit on armor. Jewelry is a mix but more mit than block.
  20. Genghes Active Member

    Not sure why you're having issues then. I'm setup the same way and taking seems easy mode
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