Focused Feedback - Fighters

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Xelgad, Nov 14, 2014.

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  1. Xelgad Developer

    Hey guys!

    Now that the expansion has launched, we're going to do another round of focused feedback. We're looking for feedback on anything you find frustrating, annoying or think could be better.

    As with the last time, we intend to focus mostly on Quality of Life adjustments and things that make the game more fun to play.

    We'll be keeping these threads opened for a bit while we gather your feedback and then look into making adjustments.

  2. Talathionwins Active Member


    Arena Endurance:
    Worst healing ability in the game. Does not heal for max health like every other fighter heal in the game.
    I have 900k health, and this ability heals me for 2-maybe-3 health every 1-2 seconds.

    Is also not affected by ability modifier, critical chance, critical bonus, potency...

    Current Status: Less then worthless, not even good for low level characters.

    Suggested Change:
    If over 50% health:
    Heals the warrior for (0.01%*level) max health every second in combat.
    If under 50% health:
    Heals the warrior for (0.02%*level) max health every second in combat.

    Dragoon's Cyclone:
    Normally give it +40% AE Autoattack chance, have a toggle however that reduces AE Autoattack by 40% and gives the warrior auto-attack modifier instead. This normalizes the strength of the trait to fit Berserker as well as Guardian.


    Change trait to give +40% AE Autoattack Potency (40% more damage.) Since now low level items have AE Autoattack.


    Change it to be like the Brawler's AA, a proc that deals AOE damage to all targets around the Brawler.

    This makes the traits fairer to both classes, adjustments like this are what happend with the Crusader tree a long time ago.
  3. Silzin Active Member

    • Recklessness Stance – Staying in Recklessness in a group or raid and actual being a DPSer is very hard with the way Recklessness is working atm. I would recommend changing it … well I do not have an Specific ideas for it, but I know is you ask you will get a ton of ideas. \
    • Stoneskins – Can you change Stoneskins so they give the name of the person that the Stoneskin is from when they absorb damage. This would let then be parsed and contributed to players and maybe added into the Heal Parse… just would be nice to see.

    Monk Specific:

    • Winds of Salvation – Can you increase the Max Range of the ability out to 50m. there are way to many fights that the named wipes to someone in a group way off and I need him back and just peal is not enough.
    • Outward Calm – the Ward amount on this is pointless to cast, even with all 10 AA into it. Can we get the Ward changed to be something that would be useful to cast.
    • Tag Team – this ability need to show up in the Maintained Window so we can see how much longer it has on it… PLZ.
    • Serene Energy – this ability is useless at max level know with HP pools. I can understand not wanting to make it a % Ward… since even a 10% ward would be several 100k hp ward… so can we change it to be something else like a Blue Taunt… you know something Monks do not have even 1 of. It would be nice.
    • Meditative Mending – this ability does not proc very often as it is, can you remove the proc limit for us, or at least reduce it a lot.
    • Eagle Shriek and Eagle Patience – these 2 AAs are useless even at low lvls. Can you look into making them Defensive Mit tools at the where originally designed.
  4. Silzin Active Member

    O ya 1 more thing... Mantis Star, please remove the min of 2m range on this ability. alternatively move the debuffs from this ability to something else that we can use when tanking a mob.
  5. headbusta Active Member

    Guardian -

    Sentry Watch - focus effect gives it 2 additional triggers. After the spell is cast the maintained window shows 3 triggers no matter what, until all the triggers are gone. So you can't tell if there are actually 3 triggers left or only 1, unless you're running an ACT trigger to warn you when the heal triggers.

    While mentioning maintained window trigger count I swear back pre-TSO-ish? Tower of Stone and other stoneskin abilities used to show trigger count for stoneskins as well. Is this possible to track anymore or get put back in? Nice to know if you have 1 stoneskin trigger left or 2...or 7...

    I believe some of the other tank spells have this issue as well from talking to other people in guild, it would be nice to be able to at least kind of keep track of when our death saves are going to run out.
    Estred and Silzin like this.
  6. Bratman Member


    1. Demonstration of Faith (paladins ward) had previously been one of the main abilities to survive for tanking paladin. I do not want to lie, but before amount of ward was approximately 15% of maximum paladin health and reuse time was 10 seconds. Currently (95 lvl) ward absorbs 17k dmg and base reuse time is 60 seconds, while tank in the raid has about 2kk+ hp, this means that amount of ward is approximately 1% of maximum paladin hp. That makes this ability absolutely useless.
    2. Paladin healing abilities for a short time increase the maximum amount of hp, but at the moment the numbers are very outdated. I believe that they should be based on % health as a healing component. Here are the current numbers: devout sacrament (+1067 hp), group heal (+1131 hp), LoH (1454 hp). Once again, while any tank in raid situation has about 2kk hp (with an average gear).
    3. Same story with scaling of regenerating ward on blessing of the paladin too. Currently amount of ward is 1200 points of damage. As I've said, it seems to me that this ability should be based on health % too.
    4. Heretic`s destruction is very-very-very outdated. You need to improve it immediately, really.
    5. Divine aura should be improved. Our main weakness is one shots and utility. Negative side of the ability (50% hp restriction from KoS expansion) should be removed at all or the threshold should be raised. This action will solve our problem. DA is much worse than dragoon`s reflexes nowdays. Divine aura has 5 min base reuse time while reflexes 3 minutes. Aura does not save you, while reflexes always save you. You must have something to do with it.
    Holyduke likes this.
  7. Talathionwins Active Member

    Dragoon's Reflexes makes you unable to do anything besides move. It also doesn't protect ya against spells. Some times in zones I use Reflexes, then get one shotted from a spell.

    Agree with everything else on pally/monk.

    Wards need to be percent based like the heals are, Paladin heals also need to be instant (but cost more mana.)
  8. Karnoz Active Member



    Please list in the description how many positions other fighters gain when the ability is used.

    Block (the Sub-Class Tree AA Ability)

    Given how much auto-attack speed has been increased this expansion, blocking one single auto-attack is exceedingly weak, much, much weaker than vs older content where one auto-attack took most of your HP bar.
    I suggest you change it to one single stoneskin with a 40% max health trigger threshold and the Stoneskin Reaction component.

    Focused Offensive
    • Focused Offensive, the guardian buff that turns AE auto-attack into Flurry, is great in single-target fights. Unfortunately, that doesn't even include most boss mob fights these days, especially in heroic instances.

    • When FO was first introduced to fix the issue of guardians having the by far lowest DPS of all fighters while not having overall better survivability than monks/berserkers, most people didn't have a lot of Flurry. Today, after gearing up during the past expansion, flurry levels are much higher, which means that, relatively speaking, Focused Offensive is much weaker than it used to be.
    • While other fighters are able to improve their DPS by stacking more Flurry on top of their 100% AE Auto-Attack, guardians can't, unless we turn off FO. If we choose to turn off FO and gear for Flurry, we lose all that Flurry the moment we turn on FO since 100% AE Auto-Attack is enough to get us to 100% Flurry; anything already in Flurry stat is lost.
    Proposed fix: Change FO to convert AE Auto-Attack to Flurry until the guardian has 100% Flurry, then leave the rest of the AE Auto-Attack. For instance, a guardian with 100% AE Auto-Attack and 15% Flurry with FO off would have 15% AE Auto-Attack and 100% Flurry with FO on.

    Alternative fix: Convert all Flurry beyond the 100% cap into Weapon Damage Bonus at a reasonable rate.


    Given the trigger chance (15%), the target limitation (only priests and mages), and the fact that this only affects physical attacks, this single-target buff virtually never does anything at all.

    Proposed fix: Change Sentinel to trigger off any kind of attack, not just physical ones.

    Tower of Stone

    The grandmaster version is 100% equivalent to the master version. Following the established progression, the GM version should add an additional stoneskin. If you don't want to do that, then at least improve it in some other fashion, like adding a second or two to the duration or reducing the recast by 5 - 10 sec.

    Aside from that, as someone else mentioned, it would be great to be able to see how many stoneskin triggers remain at any given time.

    Guardian's Sphere

    Firstly, the grandmaster version is 100% equivalent to the master version. Following the established progression, the GM version should increase the proc chance slightly. Given how slight the improvement is, I don't see any reason why this hasn't been implemented. If you really don't want to give guardians even that small bit of extra survivability, then simply increase the chance of a proc on a group member.

    Secondly, could you name the stoneskins that go on group members something different from the ones that go on the guardian, so we're able to more easily differentiate between which stoneskins are protecting the guardian and which are protecting other people.

    Dragoon's Reflexes

    Please remove the "drops on CA use" restriction. Monks, SK's, paladins, etc., don't have any such restrictions on their auto-avoid temps, so it seems silly that guardians/berserkers should. Keep in mind, this is a 20 sec temp that is a necessary part of our temp rotation, so it isn't just a minor annoyance, especially when we have to hold aggro on countless adds (i.e., we can't AE while DR is running).

    General Issue: Brawler Avoidance vs Plate Tank Avoidance

    You stated that this expansion wasn't going to be avoidance vs mitigation, yet by implementing the shield/Protection change, you have effectively nerfed plate tank block massively relative to monks and bruisers, whose Uncontested Block remains untouched (since it isn't keyed to a shield).

    Self-buffed, I'm currently sitting at 31.4% Uncontested Block. Prior to the expansion launch, it was about 63%, which could be raised to 70% with temps. Even with the best shield I could find on the beta server, I still couldn't get my self-buffed Uncontested Block higher than 41%, with temps to about 45%. That's a huge drop in survivability, especially considering stoneskins are directly hurt by this (they drop much faster these days for a number of reasons, not the least of which is our reduced Uncontested Block).

    Solution: allow us to acquire shields with higher Protection or lower brawler base Uncontested Block.

    General Issue: Brawler Mitigation vs Plate Tank Mitigation

    Since this expansion is going to be all about Mitigation vs HP and brawlers are going to have the edge in HP and healing received but take more damage per hit, plate tanks must of course have a significant advantage in mitigation.

    While this may work with regards to bruisers (I simply don't know the class well enough to say), it certainly doesn't work when it comes to monks.

    Monks are able to cycle through their temp buffs, especially their auto-avoids (Tsunami, Bob and Weave, Tag Team), to such an extent that when they do have a chance of being hit by a melee attack without massive Damage Reduction or stoneskins up, they will always be able to cast their mitigation temps, and said temps will take their mitigation to the same level as that of any plate tank, in some cases beyond. This, needless to say, poses a balance issue.

    Proposed fix: increase the recast time of Tsunami. If done properly, this will ensure that monks will have to take at least some melee hits without mitigation temps running. It will also force monks to wear defensive gear more frequently than currently is the case (right now, due to their auto-avoid temps, they're able to tank in offensive gear in many fights).

    Alternate fix: significantly reduce the base mitigation of leather armor (won't affect bruisers since they treat leather armor as chain due to their mythical effect).
    Daalilama likes this.
  9. Talathionwins Active Member

    Fighter Offensive Stances: Can we make them useful again?
    Completely Useless due to the importants of Mitigation, Damage Reduction, Max Health.

    Add 15% base "Flurry" to all fighters Offensive Stance.

    Forward Stance:
    Adds 1-10% Additional Flurry to all fighter Offensive Stances.
    Additionally adds 1.5-15% strike-through to all stances.

    Dragon Scales:
    Adds 1-10% Max Health to all fighter stances.
    (Mmm.. everyone gets hit this expansion.)

    Aggressive Nature (Warrior Shadow Line)
    Also adds 1-5% Flurry to Offensive Stance.

    Layered Scales:
    Also adds 0.5% Damage Reduction to all fighter Offensive Stances per point spent.
    (It needs damage reduction, or it needs base autoattack modifier.)

    These kinds of changes will make OS on par with DS and makes it a tough choice instead of always being one. There is no reason to tank in offensive stance atm, "1-2 adornments" gives as much S/P/C as it does.

    Offensive Stance is not like Reckless, its meant to be tanked in.
    Creasote likes this.
  10. Silzin Active Member

    @ Karnoz with the changes to the way mobs attack in this Xpac i do not think brawlers need any more nurfing. I have posted in other places ideas that would if needed nurf brawlers and not crippling us. Tsunami is a strong temp but it is not the problem within our temp rotation, so please do not try to nurf other classes, stick to the topic at hand and address problems with the classes that you actually play to make them more "Fun to Play".

    I do think that Offensive Stances need working over so we can tank zone trash in it. But i think that Reckless Stance needs more work over all.

    An idea for Recklessness, instead of doubling anything and giving us Pot and so on... just convert all Taunts into DPS and -Taunts when in Recklessness. then balance the amount of TPS (Threat per Sec) each tank can generate on there own so when Defensive its Agro and Recklessness it DPS.
  11. Talathionwins Active Member

    I hate reckless and think it needs removed. Its buggy, broken and seems to be a lot more work then its worth. Fighters are Tank classes. >_<

    Offensive Stance needs to also be a good tank stance. Of course not as good as defensive, but its just worthless. Defensive Stance deals more damage because you live longer.
  12. Hamorm Member

    Equip a new shield even the first one from Sig line with 3k protection will put u back near 70% uncontested if raid shields give more it will likely be an avenue to drop block items
    Malleria likes this.
  13. konofo Active Member

    Sometimes clicking Show Ignored Content rewards us with another gem from the Talathion Hall of Shame:

    Lest anyone be tempted to take that guy's word on anything about this game, here's a non-exhaustive list of things a Berserker might do (besides move) without dropping Reflexes:

    Blood Rage
    Wall of Rage
    Controlled Rage
    Open Wounds
    Gut Roar
    Draconic Shout
    Perfect Counter
    Wall of Force
    Stand Firm
    Diamond Flesh
    Experienced Insight
    Cry of the Warrior
    Activate charms, such as Draconic Effigy
    Clown scrubs on the forums

  14. Silzin Active Member

    Also is "Dragoon's Reflexes" works the same as "Superior Guard" then Taunts are also in the list of things you can do to get agro and do damage.
  15. Talathionwins Active Member

    "Dispelled When Target Casts a Combat Art"
    "Any Combat Arts used will cancel the effect."

    Well I should of said that differently. You can use all those things except it drops the buff. Unless something has changed, I haven't used said ability for years. So it may be different then what it was back in Kingdom of Sky. However from what I remember when I got that ability last, it was pointless because it dispelled any time I used, or actidently used a combat art.

    So I avoided using it.

    Just tested it - apparently you can now use "some" combat arts when using it. Cool, so the description or ability is bugged. Its funny how some can and others can't.

    If this is an exploit it needs fixed, or the description needs changed ;)
  16. konofo Active Member

    Blood Rage was supposed to be Battle Frenzy, exceeded my edit window.

  17. Veeman Active Member

    Ok, here's my two cents. PLEASE, and I am begging you.... PLEASE no more over/under junk. "If over 50% health you wipe your own nose, If under 50% health the nearest healer will wipe you nose for you" .. PLEASE just make it one thing, straight up, here it is and here is what it does ALL the time while in effect.

    PS. "Like" to all previous posts. Thumbs up!!
    Kittybock and Clevemo like this.
  18. Legionair Member


    Death March:
    Give back that hidden aggro generation it used to have...It ended back in the SF expac, it was awsome to cast and snag all aoe aggro, making it more useful than today... never understood why it ever changed...

    Divine Aura:
    Would rather see it as a riposte all damage or even as a damage reduction.
    If no changes then Please make it Faster casting just like Furor.

    -Just my 2 cents-
  19. Estred Well-Known Member

    You can Taunt while using Dragoons. The tradeoff for it is being immune to Melee Damage. If you oh I don't know, combine it with Tower of Stone you gain a nice full invulnerability till ToS wears off.

    To comment on Guardian pains...

    Warrior Tree Woe's
    Other classes have received some needed updates here or there to their Subclass tree. The Warrior tree has seen no such thing, as such most players Guardian or Berserker use the same AA spec. Rehauling the tree, is probably unlikely so I won't dredge up the essay I wrote last Fighter Feedback thread regarding Warrior AA and I'll touch on a few of the most important ones.
    - There are problem abilities in the STR line (Wrath and Fury).
    - Problems with the AGI line for Berserkers who hate that they have nothing from Dragoon's Cyclone.Dragoon's Avoidance has been obsolete even at it's level inclusion forever.
    - Problems with STA in that Reversal is weak, too weak to compensate even slightly for a lost Weapon as well as Arena Endurance being so weak it's from the stone ages.
    - Problems with the entire WIS line. Belly Smash can't be used 90% of the time. Seasoned Veteran is... eh but in the same boat as other "increases x ability" AA. Unshakable is, alright 530 mit. Stance Mastery... since when have Stance negatives meant anything at all?
    - Problems with the INT line in that Pary and Slayers Speed are... irrelevant even when you can take them due to Item changes.

    I'm only posting for the STR line right now.

    Str Line
    This line, is not usable even at low levels which is normally a justifiable reason to leave be. Under the new critical system I was hoping to see use of Executioner's Wrath beyond Rank 1 to have another damage CA to rotate. The tweek to it would be easy in reality.

    Executioner's Wrath Ver 1:
    A melee attack that grant's the Executioner the ability to convert all melee attacks into critical attacks for a duration. With more tanks the duration of this ability increases as does the Critical Rate, allowing the chance of a stronger critical attack.
    Casting: .6
    Recovery: .6
    Recast: 15
    Applies Executioners Wrath. Lasts for 5 +(.5/Rank) seconds.
    Increases the Critical Chance of target by 100% +(15%/Rank).
    Inflicts X to Y range of damage (not my place to solve damage necessity)

    Executioner's Wrath Ver 2:
    A melee attack that grant's the Executioner a high chance to score a critical hit on their next attack. Subsequent ranks increase the chance significantly, increasing the chance of a stronger critical strike.
    Casting: .6
    Recovery: .6
    Recast: 15
    Applies Executioners Wrath. Lasts for 10 seconds.
    Increases the Critical Chance of target by 80% +(40%/Rank).
    Inflicts X to Y range of damage (not my place to solve damage necessity)
    *PvE verus PvP would need to be thought of for some of these as a Guard with Mythic Crits may be... overpowered as some love to cry for PvP.

    The problem with Fury is that it requires the Warrior to stay in the Danger Zone without significant reward for doing so. 50% is "danger of being 1 shot" in most cases. If fury was a general all round Damage/Defense buff, it may be usable. If it also persisted beyond being healed. Perhaps a stacking buff that lasts X seconds every time you go under 50% I'll figure something more out when I have more time.
    Talathionwins likes this.
  20. Talathionwins Active Member

    For Warriors...

    Stamina Tree:
    Reversal unlike all the other fighter's subclass aas and trains, this one has an internal cooldown. It also procs less then any other fighter subclass tree proc in the game and does some of the least damage too.

    Arena Endurance I already explained... worst Endline in the entire game.

    Strength Tree:
    Executioner's Wrath adds critical chance, with the new criticals I think it should instead add a high chance to do a "Legendary, Mythical, Fabled Critical" then dispel when it does a Legendary, Fabled, Mythical Critical.

    Executioner's Fury should increase Legendary Critical Chance by 10%, Fabled Critical Chance by 3%, Mythical Critical Chance by 1%. It is also one of the worst end-lines in the game. I could also say it should be able to be used over 50% health, since 99% of the fights your either over 50%, or dead. The same can be said for Eagle Shriek from brawlers.

    Agility Tree:
    Dragoon Spin is very weak, does not work well with traits.

    Dragoon's Cyclone does nothing for berserkers. It only helps guardians...

    Dragoon's Avoidance does nothing... Adding Riposte Chance for players without a shield would be a welcome change and go well with the "Dragoon" Theme.
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