Fix berserkers pls.

taunts do literally NOTHING for your overall threat.. the only time they come in handy are when you cant attack the mob.. If you are using taunts for threat you are doing it wrong and would be better off using CA's which will give you much higher threat gains since DPS + hate mod and xfers are the only reason anybody is holding aggro nowadays.. People are speccing for hate gain in the warrior tree.. not the taunt amount increase..

also back to the main topic.
Raise their base ca damage by a significant amount (around brawler levels) and then adjust other aspects of the class. Zerkers are an outdated class that rely on outdated mechanics, they could do a massive overhaul and make the class fun and appealing using the concepts of some of the existing mechanics but with better implementation.
Make berserk do something and grp berserk do a bit less but zerkers are now desirable. My recommendation, some stats, a better damage proc like the prestige damage proc and maybe a stacking buff that the longer you fight the more damage you do (2 stacking CB, stacks 10 times) just for the berserker of course. Adrenaline should be flat DR again, maybe drop the % but the heal on hit is lame and with battle frenzy you basically have 2 of the same abilities only 1 drains your power and there are already enough power drains in POW..
Make overcap AE auto turn into flurry, will help with single target threat/dr.
Give them a 1-3 charge stoneskin on a 2-3 min base timer to help mitigate some of the incoming damage from aoes.. Gut roar is garbage.
Change some of their temps like rampage and juggernaut to actually do more for their dps and be noticable when activated.
Anyway, just a few ideas that I think would make this class more viable and something more than just a powerleveling toon.

Post some proof so we and the game devs can make some progress fixing things, this theorycraft sht is old. The only tangible evidence in this thread suggests taunts are absolutely worth using. I've never been in a situation where people are sustaining 5x my dps, so I wouldn't know about that. My threat control in pugs, statics, groups, and raids is tight.

Netty wrote:

By boosting hate in the warrior tree, you also boost hate for guards... narf

Netty wrote:

Yea, ok.

I just respecced to the STR AA myself and just the three basic taunts (Enrage, Mock, Raging Blow) accouted for 18% of my aggro generation in Shield/Dstance mode. With dual wielding and Recklessness on, those three basic taunts were still 10% of aggro generation just from the pure numbers (not including hate mod).

Taunts are not a solo aggro generator so it's silly to see them and judge them as such. They are boosters to your aggro generation from damage, buffs, debuffs, etc.
Considering I'm not bad at math, I'll continue to see them as useful...
The breakdown for me (all mastered, in Dstance/shield):
Raging Blow (Single): 22856 hate plus 9636 damage, usable every 6.5 seconds
Mock (Single): Averaged 28978 hate, usable every 5.2 seconds
Enrage (Encounter): Averaged 24937 hate, usable every 13.1 seconds
Is there any CA that matches taunts for potential threat generation per second when specced for aggro generation (STR+others)? If there is, there can't be that many. My auto-attack beats it, but I need something to click between swings...
And that's not even including the alternate taunts like Insolence, Experienced Insight, Adrenaline (with AA), etc.

basically you just posted a thing where you were at 70k tps from just taunts and taunt effects.. 250-300k dps with 100% hate gain = ~500-600k tps and then add in your hate xfer and that is how you are holding threat.. not getting marginal gains from using taunts.. Plus more dps = mob is dead faster even with sirens stare the damage from other abilities makes them more valuable for dps >> the damage from using provoke or shout (if a guardian.)

Everyone knows most of your threat comes from DPS, you're not teaching anyone anything new. My 2 taunts that actually do no damage parse 7.3k tps which is between 1 - 2% of my threat including dps and transfer. Include all of my other taunts and it's more like 6 - 7%.
As I said, it all adds up. Saying it's not worth using them or putting AA into them is silly because it is no different than CAs. Most of my combat arts are individually 1% of my dps, but I still cast them and put AA into them to make them better. I threw my left over warrior tree AA into str hate which is 5 points.
My taunts also have a long cast range compared to combat arts, which further adds to their desirability... as it is often a good option to snag an add or ripped mob with ranged auto + taunt, as opposed to dragging the named into the raid pile to rip an add with melee. Look at the whole picture. And I can assure you, I am not delaying auto attacks or cooldowns on more "valuable" CAs by casting those 2 taunts, and most of my taunts also do damage.

1. If you used more CA's you would parse higher
2. I dont consider the abilities with a taunt built into damage a taunt when making my casting order, i just view them as CA's.
There is a reason that i do not have threat issues outside of the first 5 seconds and if i die and have to get threat back while still getting buffed etc. DPS > Taunts and if your threat is good then you should be pressing combat arts instead of taunts because like i said, less dps = mobs dying slower.

Faildozer@Permafrost wrote:

You can view them as heals if you would like... our str AA views them as taunts and boosts them accordingly.
Everything else was addressed in the last sentence of my last post.

alright dude, most people will disagree with you, Im not going to waste my time trying to help you out but dont come here saying that people should spec for increased taunts when that isnt even the reason they spec for that in the str tree..

I'll be sure to hit you up for pro-tips if I ever have problems tanking. Until then, I'll keep doin what I do.
And I don't think you're someone to be giving AA advice Mr. extra 6 points in agi line defense.

Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:

And where did i say in any post that the hate in the warrior tree need to be increased? You have to be drunk or something im not sure what you are talking about. I never said i dident use the taunts yet you claim i have. And you say that i said that the hate in the warrior tree need to be boosted. Really? read befor you post and stop making a fool out of yourself now. And you can say all you want that it adds up but the fact still stands that guards have more taunts than a berserker have. Increasing the normal taunts will do nothing if you having problem with aggro as hate and transfer as said is the way tanks hold aggro now.

You're just confusing yourself... Where did I say you said hate in the warrior tree needs to be increased? But since you took the liberty of calling yourself out, look at your OP silly. It's #1 in your list of sht to change.
Netty wrote:

Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:

Mama always said I'm not a very smart man... but I'm not seeing anything about threat in my comment.

Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:

A damage shield and fixing 2 out of date Abilitys has what to do with boosting hate? So what if you can put a taunt proc on reversal just changei t if it gets to much but it wont. Im sure all other guardians would love to get those fixed maybe not you tho but im sure you are alone. Where you said it? By boosting hate in the warrior tree, you also boost hate for guards... narf. Your own words. If you still want to run around with broken out of date stuff when other tanks have better and more proper tools then do so. But i think the rest of the warrio comunity dont feel the same way you do.

Damage shields don't boost hate, and making changes in the warrior tree doesn't effect guards. Whatever you say cupcake.

Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:

Well keep making yourself look like a fool then. Im sure all other warriors enjoy to read your BS. Its will boost the dps and if you turn it that way your hate aswell. You just keep owning yourself its funny really. As i said if you dont want more dps with a shield and board well dont want that then? Im sure all other warriors agree with me. The hate i was talking about was adding a hate siphon on berserk. Even if guards can tank fine now doesent mean everyone they have works perfect. Monks are still more defensiv by abit and do more dps and have better utility. But hey your the man right? Since you have killed what you normal can do with a PU raid in SS? I see good going man! You just keep shooting yourself in the foot.

I don't understand most of your post, but if you would like to go over the semantics of my comment with a fine-toothed comb, then fine; you win if it makes you feel better. The point also completely sailed over your head.
The only reason I mentioned it is because you propose changes that affect the guard class, and I feel the guard class doesn't need to be buffed/changed. You're looking way too hard into this. I'm all for you getting your class fixed, but I have an opinion about you asking for changes to the class I play.

To end it im sure you are kinda much the only warrior that feels that way. But keep on pls. Its like trying to teach a mute to talk... Im done now in this thread.

Well, I feel like the guard class already performs well and is fun and challenging to play. I would not like to see the class I play become too easy or too hard. There must be changes you can ask for that would bring zerkers in line while not effecting other classes and further throwing off the balance between other classes.

Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:

Haha considering your aa spec is a lot worse and your guild isnt clearing even skyshrine maybe you should. Ill give you a hint.. Grp moderate weakens the siphon from your shoulder target, you complain about needing range and yet you dont have 5pts in the range of rescue, you dont have any points into the duration increase of recapture, you have 2 extra points in parry yet you ignore the extra points in recovery and cast speed on your acceleration strike, you are 70 points over on crit for the content you are doing yet you still adorn and spec for it, you also red adorn for HP and hate gain even tho you should be at 100% you get an extra 4% max health for your group instead of 8% crit bonus and you are in EM skyshrine, you dont even need the extra hp in POW.. How could i have also missed the fact that you arent even at 600 MA
I could go on but it really isnt necessary.. You have already showed you dont know what you are talking about and just taking 30 seconds to go over your character and check guild progress tells me everything i need to know about you and your tanking ability... well that and the fact that you were saying that people should use taunts to hold threat even tho they do the the same if not less than CA's and dont do damage..

Faildozer@Permafrost wrote:

Threat transfers before modifiers.
I don't complain about taunt range, it's nice to have. 1 point in rescue is all I need for reuse cap, the range is fine.
I assume by recapture you mean reinforcement... if I don't have aggro by the time reinforcment expires I have bigger problems than 5 more seconds will fix.
My threat control is fine so I'd prefer parry (which raid mobs respect according to my avoidance reports, unlike lol defense), and I'm pretty sure casting speed and recovery don't increase with more AA, but even if it does with casting haste adorns I'm able to reliably get 3 CAs in per auto, 4 with defensive minded... a fraction more casting haste and recovery simply leaves extra dead spots in between autos.
I need 390 crit for our progression mobs with crit standard flag and bard buffs I have enough self buffed crit to get there.
I'm at 97.7% hate gain raid buffed.
Threat control is fine, I'd rather trick out my group temp buff.
I always need extra HP.
Raid buffed in combat I hit 614 MA.

I don't setup my character to hit caps self buffed, otherwise group buffs and procs are useless. I watch my stats in real time tanking in combat and setup my character accordingly. As for ragging on my guild, go for it. I'm in the best guild ww and you aren't going to hurt my feelings.