Zabjade wrote: "arguably subhuman" player races need to start in either their home contested dungeon or city of Haven. Gnolls havent built the bridge of human kindness to any player cities. Until world events change that, they shouldnt start there. the only exception would be neriak, where gnolls are duped into citizenship but are really slaves, or gorowyn since they just dont care. Gnolls have bb and splitpaw, so there are options even if one of their burrows was overrun. From lore standpoint, throwing gnolls into qeynos would result in civil war. I have wondered about Brell's races and their warring. Seems like thats a pretty big rift in religion, its like finding out your husband has another wife and kids in the next town over. How do you make sense of that while staying loyal to your creator? dwarves, gnolls, goblins, gnomes. bugbears and ratonga too? seems dwarves would have a complicated attitude towards their god, and plenty of them worshipping outside their creator. or maybe a cover-up religious dogma, such as blaming brells brother for the 'evil' races creation.
ratbastard wrote: 6. Those from below shall attempt to further their agenda below the throne of Brell. "Most assuredly the ratonga. Our network of informants has indicated that they are up to something in the ancient dwarven halls of Kaladim. -SV"
ratbastard wrote: Just because you worship the same diety isn't a good reason to be friends. Dwarves and other underdark races all compete for the same resources. They also compete for the love of Brell. Each and every one of Brell's races are convinced that Brell made them in his image. Well, maybe not the Gnomes. But Dwarves are avid miners. They invade caves populated by the other Underdark races. They made enemies of every race that participated in the invasion of Kaladim. The Roeklik were just smart enough to use that shared animosity to forge an alliance and strike when most of the dwarves were away. As for a player race of Gnolls, the 2 most likely sources would be Splitpaw and Icepaw gnolls. The Velious Gnolls don't have animosity towards player races or Coldain. The Splitpaw actively seek out help from players against the more evil elements of a Splitpaw schism. Gorowin would be a natural starting place for Gnolls, more so than Nerriak. Teir'dal are considered an underdark race as well since they started underground and compete for space in the underdark as well. For good aligned gnolls New Halas would be the most accepting. If any being declaired they were on pilgramige to Erollisi's shrine I think they would be allowed. Love is blind.
Or we could go Icepaw Gnolls in New Halas which has heavy Dwarven roots, not to mention, other then the starving cannibles they have been well disposed to Adventureres since Everquest I. And unlike the other Gnoll's they've been pushed to the edge (and probably lost most of their tradeskillers and are only now relearning the process of making items) Which means sending pups away from them so that they might have a better chance at survival.
Meh. I agree though, if you must insist on a gnoll player race, the only way it's going to happen (not including the MASSIVE RESTRUCTURING of the gnoll models in the game) lore-wise is to either have the Snowfang or the Splitpaw. All the other gnoll clans absolutely despise anything that isn't a gnoll (other than Blackburrow's frequent alliances with Freeport, though that could open up the Sabertooth as an evil gnoll lore thing). I still honestly believe, however, that the biggest chance for an NPC race is, like ratbastard said, to have their home dungeon as their starting point. Perhaps expanded and made into more of a city. Which would be really killer, rolling an orc on Zek. Let the giants, goblins, dragons and such be the "universal enemy", if we must have one, though I don't think having one of those is necessary at all; everything must have allies, one way or another. Crushbone's alliance with the dark elves, the grobin alliance with the Crushbone, the Rujarkian alliance with the Court of Tears... Or, as an out-of-game source, the Forgotten Realms orcs (which are similar to eq2's orcs, just dumb as rocks, compared to Norrath's orcs actually having reasonable intelligence) ally with goblins, giants, ogres, half-orcs, sometimes evil human nations (Thay), drow, kobolds, gnolls, demons...
They could always use Haven for something like that -- any gnoll, centaur, hooluk, or whatever could start there, having forsaken or otherwise been outcast from their own society (and thus having the same base starting factions as the existing player races). As with Exiles, they would be KOS to all of the player cities until they chose an alignment and progressed on the faction questlines, just like a current race doing the Betrayal quests, after which they would be allowed into the city of their choice -- probably with the same snide and suspicious NPC commentary a Dark Elf or Ratonga receives in Qeynos, or a Wood Elf in Freeport. Using Haven like that would allow pretty much any NPC race to be turned into a player race, all it would really need would be adjustments to the model framework (for emotes, riding mounts, and other animations) and race-specific Character Development attributes.
Yeah, the model adjustments are probably why it's not a high priority, if it's even on the list... it would take a LOT of work and a LOT of time.
Orcs are the bad guys and should remain so. there's nothing about the orcs that makes them viable as anything but someone's puppet or a villian. they only factions of orc that aren't under a DE's thumb or not sole occupied with building a better war machine and the top members killng eachother for leadership are the Rygorr/escaped Thrael'gorr. and with both of them, it's clearly the enemy of my enemy is my friend. they are buddies with you becuase you are working against Kael like them. thought your interesting in preventing norrath's destructionm, they are just interested in saving Sullon Zek.
Rainmare@Oasis wrote: It isn't just saving Sullon Zek. The Ry'gorr have been oppressed by the giants of Kael for well over 500 years. Back in EQ1 there were giants just outside of Ry'gorr Keep that ran a prison of sorts. Those giants had Ry'gorr orcs working for them too. Also the giants visited the keep to pass messages and to arrange for supply runs to Kael. Now the giants are enslaving the orcs, reducing them to little more than a supplier. If they had tried to intergrate the Ry'gorr into the Army of Zek they would still have the popular support of the Ry'gorr (and be better able to deal with us adventurers). As it is, the Kromzek created the opportunity for those opposing Rallos to gain allies not only outside of their door, but also inside the very halls of Kael. Freeing Sullon Zek is a rally cry that brings all the rage and angst the orc feel due to their treatment to the forefront. It is something for them to focus all their resentment into. This isn't about freeing Sullon as much as it is rebelling against the Kromzek rule.
The Ry'Gorr are probably the easiest answer to make into a player race. They don't like the Kromzek, they don't particularly have their own goals (I believe the only reason they warred was the dwarves was because of the giants, and I suppose the ones on Frostfang are doing it out of desperation)...a lasting alliance with, say, the Coldain or a city outside Velious would prove beneficial into ensuring that the giants don't rise up and throw them all in chains again. However, by that same notion, in terms of character customization: The Ry'Gorr have precisely the same problem as, say, the Velious gnolls do; they're all a bluish white or just white. If there's any difference in skin/fur color, I haven't seen it. Honestly, I just don't agree with the idea that orcs should always be the enemy. Have any of you read, ah, The Hunter's Blades trilogy in the Drizzt series, or The Orc King? With that in mind, you'd think the ogres, even after losing the war, would just try again, instead of letting themselves descend into Lucan's servitude. I still believe that the Deathfist, should the lore stay true to a few of the quests that some of the orcs have you do to ensure the Empire's strength remains at home, would be probably the best bet, IMO, of an orc player race. Just reincorporate the old orc model (Rujarkian model sucks), maybe make a female model (or pull another Sarnak deal). Again, they'd have to be their own faction, unless the Bloodskulls suddenly surrendered to Lucan and he pulled another Freeblood deal (there's sort of a trend here) and accepted them into the city. Again, though, that would have to include the reincorporation of the old orc models. ...Though again, I would just be willing to accept an illusion of the fellow in my avatar for my own RP purposes. (wink wink, nudge nudge devs)
Ugreth@Antonia Bayle wrote: The Ry'gorr drove the Coldain from Crystal Caverns and the two sides have been fighting ever since. The Ry'gorr have been long term allies of the Kromzek against the Coldain. No, the Coldain wouldn't accept any such alliance. The Ry'gorr probably wouldn't either. The adventurers are outsiders, neurtal parties in the faction wars found in Velious. It is easier for each side to accept help from us than it would be for them to cross the deep divisions between them. As for the Ogres: The Greenmist killed all of the Ogres in the 2nd Rallosian Army/Rallosian Empire except for the few that converted to worshiping Cazic in the Moors. All of the player Ogres came from the populations in Freeport and Nerriak that wern't with the Rallosian Empire. The only other surviving Ogres were on Kunark and co-opted from The Overthere into Terran's Grasp.
Meirril wrote: According to the new ogre quests, the Torch of Oggok in Big Bend was a relic from the 2nd Rallosian War brought to Freeport...by surviving Rallosian ogres.
Ugreth@Antonia Bayle wrote: I really wish they would stop retconning all the cool out of the second rallosian war...
Meirril wrote: It was never distinctly written anywhere until now that there were or were not survivors from the war, other than Teren's Grasp, the Thullosians, or the ogres already living elsewhere who didn't join the Empire. As it happens, there isn't a lot they really retconned from the War.
Ugreth@Antonia Bayle wrote: The ONLY ogres who were not wiped off the face of Norrath were those who never joined the army in the first place, and the Thullosians, who weren't involved in the desecration of the temple, and thus were able to strike a bargain with Thule to keep on living. EVERY. LAST. OGRE. In the Rallosian Army was killed by the Greenmist. There were no survivors beyond the Thullosians. In order for that Torch of Oggok to make it's way to Freeport by surviving Rallosians, then a Thullosian would have to be the one who delivered it, but that's impossible since they sealed themselves away in the Swamps for so long that the first time any outsider came in contact with them was when the Moors of Ykesha were rediscovered.
Are you sure they say 2nd rallosian war, or just the rallosian war. cause there was a first one that got them thier butts handed to them by the Rathe at the end of it.
I think that's what he's saying, Cusa... not every last Ogre was in the Rallosian Army -- some were tending home back in Oggok or crafting to support the war efforts, some were probably off doing their own thing for their own personal glory, some were already in Freeport as citizens (like Boomba), that sort of thing. Long after the Army was annihilated by the Greemist, some of those non-Army types chose to resettle in Freeport and brought a souvenir from back home. I dunno... really, I'd have to see the text from the racial quest to see how it's phrased, and now that I think about it... I don't have any Ogre toons...
I'll probably be doing it again later on and look over the dialogue again. I'll be sure to save my logs and copy/paste what I get.
