Feedback: Why Players Left

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Estred, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Estred Well-Known Member

    I am aware, I felt it was pertinent to bring up one of the large exodus's and why from people I talk to because of the impending ToV, while impossible to make any large changes sometimes it pays to be reminded of past failure.This thread mostly concerns the 1st month of DoV not including Drunder or subsequent changes that occurred 3+ months after DoV was released which saw some significant stat adjustments because I remember when people cried "PQ Gear got nerfed" around 3.5 months into the expansion.

    Do keep in mind that this is what others have told me. My personal views are moot in this thread and I am simply being the middleman for what others who do not post on the forums have said. I had no issues with DoV, I ended up enjoying it more then CoE in some respects but I am still here and yet a large portion of players are not.

    SF had it's share of issues but Erudin Palace and Vigilant were the "end heroic" zones. In DoV players were walking into Great Divide and dying to badgers and dying in ToFS as fast as people died in Erudin Palace. The difference? Erudin Palace was "high end Heroic" and ToFS was "starter Heroic" that is the big difference. In DoV the "Erudin Palace" was "Temple of Rallos Zek"
    Wirewhisker likes this.
  2. Wurm Well-Known Member

    I dunno I thought DOV wasn't too hard and I did the entire progression upto EM Raid.

    Solo Quests -> Public Quests + Heroic -> Rygorr (which I loved) -> Drunderware (which I didn't) -> EM DOV Raid

    Drunder was a pain in the jewels though before the nerf, but as far as crit mit went we adorned for it and moved on.

    I like only having two stats I need to look for anymore, being a Pally back in the mix STRAGIWISINT days was a huge pain, sure I had more options but I felt weaker spreading them out.

    But I've always had no probably finding groups with friends. And really friends and having fun with them is the reason I log in every day. That and running instances for Ethereals lol So far 2 out 3 have dropped, still looking for my sword though but it will happen I'm sure of it.

    I like questing (4000+ and counting), I like soloing, I like heroics and I like raiding (I even like crafting but don't tell anyone). I think a lot of guilds fell apart when it just stopped being fun.

    And thats the current problem. Nowadays it seems its all about (for a lot of the players left playing) making plat for a SLR and not about having fun.

    The new stuff is done with too fast. I sure hope the next expac is going to be huge with tons of things to do (ROK was the last one that felt like it too months to see everything), Cobalt Scar game-update was fun and I enjoyed it... but I finished all the quests (Adventure and Crafting) in less than two days? Not cool.

    If and when I do finally leave it will be due to boredom.
    Wirewhisker likes this.
  3. Estred Well-Known Member

    Drunder was a big issue overall in terms of balance. I had issues with how that zone was made. Perhaps the players I talked with (probably about 50-100) were misguided in their comments. After all that is a small sample size and I am sure Feldon knows more than I do since he writes these articles about each expansion.
  4. Shadrac Well-Known Member

    I played EQ2 at launch and loved it, but I lost interest because a grind seemed to set in very early. The same thing happened in EQ1, but it didn't happen there (that I noticed) until around level 50.

    The term "grind" is subjective, but for me the "grind" was that the content that I could duo just didn't give much XP, and I ran out of doable quests that I could find. The game appeared to have been designed to discourage solo/duo play.

    Also, EQ2 removed one of the things that I really liked about EQ1, pulling mobs without aggroing a room. In EQ2, most of the content I wanted to hunt was linked, so pulling was impossible most of the time.

    I tried EQ2 again several times and failed to connect, that is until now. I think it's a great game now. I don't understand all of the complexities thru history, but there is a massive amount of content, and I can now move thru the game at my own speed and do heroic and linked mobs, too. I still miss pulling, though.

    I would say a part of WoW's success was the fact that most people never felt a grind. I always felt like I was progressing. I don't ever recall hunting mobs for an hour in WoW then wondering if the XP bar had moved or not.
    Feara likes this.
  5. Dulcenia Well-Known Member

    Really? I guess it has been a very long time since I played EQ1. I seem to recall aggroing not just the room above, but the room below and both side rooms...EVAC!!! OK, who popped an AoE there?
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  6. Regolas Well-Known Member

    I can understand your points Estred, and don't necessarily disagree with them, but I remember DoV release as being very busy, with PQs galore.

    Granted this was my first xpac where I was the target audience straight away (ie at max level), so maybe the excitement overshadowed the failings. What I remember is a massive xpac with lots and lots to do in a tiered order. I think of it a lot more favourably than CoE that just has no heroic direction.

    I also had a forced 6 month absence after a month or so of DoV release (travelling and moving country) and came back to Thurg/Rygorr Armor with no tokens needed (I managed to get full PQ stuff before having my forced break).

    I still have not gone into Drunder. I never had the opportunity and when Skyshrine came out people stopped going there. But that doesn't mean it was badly designed. I'm sure I could go in there now with a duo and clear it if I wanted to.
  7. Bashem Well-Known Member

    This whole game is now playing for endgame. with needing 320 AA to play 340 next expansion you need to do, ending signature questline that need to be done by at least one char to get access to quest gear and ports. SOE is just made a timesink game in many ways. The end gear 91+ is so much more powerful than the rest of the gear that where game is being started and played. Now if they make it so we can make a instant lvl 85 char its pretty much saying play our end game its great as well as long and boring too. I know some will say hey I dont mind questing slowly to get to end game and thats fine with me ;) but I like getting my char to 95 so I can get COE advanced solo and getting ready to do HM zones now. I dont hate like it but SOE just spend too much time trying to promote there free to play manta when really they want you to spend a fortune on kronos, marketplace item with station cash and never ending expansion content. I accepted that part of game and I just play for a normal sub atm and any expansions needed. I wish this game was more like it predecessor EQ1 where it was hard to level and you needed a group to do most content because thats the memories that people have when they reminiscence about the fist game. No corpse runs need though or losing XP when you died that was a pain. As far as the instant 85 they should allow people to promote the chars there already using e.g. there own low level chars but I know that wont happen.
  8. Draylore Well-Known Member

    All I have to say and not really sure where it started going bad but the 'game' has gotten easier and easier since then....everything including class play, zones, travel, picking gear (a lost art) is easier today. For me every time things got 'easier' or something got 'simplified' the game got less interesting.

    I left after SF...skipped DOV and came back just at the tail end of SS and do not feel like i missed anything....and that is mostly because EQ2 is and pretty much always has been about current endgame......what came before is quickly and in some cases immediately rendered obsolete....and we about to live thru that again soon. Just the nature of a tightly teared game like EQ2. While a part of me hates the fact that I could have the best of the best gear available the day prior to an expansion launch it will mostly likely be totally obsolete the next day I understand why they do it....i just hate it. Sucks that what we did before doesn't matter.
  9. Shadrac Well-Known Member

    Sure, that would happen in some spots, but I could often pull whatever I wanted inside or outside because mobs weren't linked by anything buy social and aggro ranges. The fact that pulling didn't always work added fun tension to play.

    I think that mob linkages with their up and down arrows are an interesting design. I am not saying do away with them entirely. But how about adding a new skill where we can UNLINK the linked mobs?
  10. JesDyr Well-Known Member

    I left because I was bored.... Which had more to do with lack of seeing other players (outside on my guildmates) than any other single thing.
  11. Dulcenia Well-Known Member

    Mobs are not linked across rooms. They do aggro across rooms and are very very social. You need to learn an ancient art.
    Karrane likes this.
  12. Nocturnus Member

    Why have I left before?

    Because it didn't matter how many expansions came out, it felt like I was doing the same thing with a new coat of paint. Nothing really changed about how I played my character. The new abilities didn't really broaden how I was playing him, or add more challenging combos. It was just... a new button to push.

    In order to hold me longer, I want to see new mechanics. New features that broaden what I do with my character. For the last several expansions, EQ2 has struggled to bring that.
  13. Buffrat Well-Known Member

    Did I miss someone mention the whole "we're taking the game down for a month" thing that happened right in the middle of DoV or has no one mentioned that yet. Because that was a lot of people not bothering to log back in ever too.
    Wirewhisker and Feara like this.
  14. Estred Well-Known Member

    Tower of Frozen Shadow in EQ... way to pull 7 floors of enemies.

    Dear god I forgot about that. Yeah that severely lost people, part of the attachment of an MMO is staying logged to keep yourself immersed/invested in your character.
  15. Dulcenia Well-Known Member

    The reason I usually leave games is because I get tired of playing alone. EQ1 it was the 8 hours LFG and no groups in sight. In WoW, I saw all my friends quit before I did. Empty guilds aren't all that much fun, and at max level I never feel like being an army sergeant and training up a bunch of raw recruits.
    Wirewhisker and Regolas like this.
  16. Regolas Well-Known Member

    That's why I left EQ1 in 2005.

    Fortunately EQ2 has plenty of things to do even if you can't group (EQ1 might by now after another 8 years but I don't like the graphics).

    The downside of developing EQ2 to allow plenty to do without needing to group is many choose to do it over grouping ALL of the time, which makes the population seem smaller.

    Fortunately I've just discovered BGs so that's giving me something to do between raids.
  17. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    yeah stat consolidation was a blessing for Paladins and SKs. since INT not only was half our damage, but for SKs it was half their power pool. WIS was half a paladin's power pool oh yeah AND it effected how strong our heals were. and the gear was never set nice. it was always things like 200 str 200 sta 130 wis 130 int 200 agi....which meant warriors got a huge leg up since their 'big stats' were always maxed and pal/sk was only like 50% on at least 2 of the stats we needed to be thier 'equal'

    and I love the complaints that are 'I had to slog though 90% of the expansion's content so I could raid'. oh say it isn't so. you actually had to play the game outside of raiding? you have to actually associate with non-raiders? oh good heavens how horrid. that the unclean masses dare sully your armor with their foul breath.
  18. Shadrac Well-Known Member

    I loved that place, especially the undead librarians and the fighting suits of armor.
    Karrane likes this.
  19. bedford New Member

    I always got the impression that SOE weren't really interested in existing customers who quit as they seemed to believe there were larger numbers of new ones waiting to replace them if they just found the right combination of features.

    Sometimes you have a niche product that will never find a mass market. Recognising that fact and catering for the customers you do have is the way to succeed, albeit on a modest scale. The problem seems to be is that it nobody at SOE is prepared to accept or admit this reality.

    Imagine the following scenarios for the EQ2 producer at an SOE corporate strategy presentation :

    1. Subscription rates are falling, but we can gain a real boost by adding <insert gimmick here>. <insert similar game> has the same thing and is doing great. This could increase revenue by 500% if it works.


    2. Subscription rates are falling, but we could stop that and get a modest increase by dropping the fluff and just doing some of more of what was popular before. This won't bring in many new customers but will probably bring back some old ones and it could increase subscription rates by 50% if it works.

    Option 1 gets you a promotion, even though it eventually fails. Option 2 gets you fired, and therefore never happens.

    Having said all that, the 2011 server shutdown was probably the biggest factor. I was in a small, but active, guild before that happened but the only member who came back afterwards.
  20. Estred Well-Known Member

    TOFS was and still is a very beautiful zone. One of my Favorite in terms of appearance and theme from DoV. However because of it's position on the gear progression (which thank god DoV had one) there was little reason to run TOFS outside of the X2 after a year of DoV.

    The best way I have found examining old expansions to keep a zone relevant past its normal point is to have items that are added at a later date that are comparable to higher end stuff much like "Rare Mobs" were in SF and late DoV. Those items were very desirable for Heroic Players and EM-Raiders and it saw a few thousand runs of Drunder by HM-Raiders for the Critical Chance neck-pieces. The Essences and Stewards was an alright idea for CoE however it was too easy to gain the materials needed to outstrip Heroic Content by only doing minimal Heroic Content, unlike in TSO/SF where those items cost 200-350 Shard/Marks which people could save up for a "rare" item if they did not acquire it by luck when gaining the Shards/Marks for it.
    Mermut likes this.

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