Feedback from a raid leader.

Discussion in 'Zones and Populations' started by Lentire, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. Balbasur Active Member

    SOE, don't put plat chests back, only put them in Avatars since the guilds killing them are the ones that matter. Thanks!
  2. Nidy Member

    The adorn system blows. At the very least put in a mastercrafted fabled dislodger that removes one adorn and saves the item. Right now people are bidding DKP to just to get the adorn then destroying the item that could be used as an upgrade for someone else. The adorns should drop like Kael though with a vender once looted. Something.
    Daalilama likes this.
  3. Daalilama Well-Known Member

    The main issue with your argument is the fact you assume that every guild runs loot as you do and as you can see that can very greatly from guild to guild...server to server. Some do plat splits and sell alt loot or do SLR in channels, others allow dkp bids for alt loot and others simply allow a /ran for alt gear if no main needs it...not every guild has 30k+ plat in the bank and not every raider has a never ending amount of personal plat as such the plat if raid chests has been used from paying for repairs to getting adorns, better food/drink/ potions...the list goes on.
    Tylia likes this.
  4. Tylia Well-Known Member

    Wow, what ever you are trying to say here makes absolutely no sense to me at all. In our guild, main bids come first. I have no clue how you would consider that discouraging to gearing up a main.
  5. slippery Well-Known Member

    It's bad system because someone who has alts is always going to have worse gear/gear up slower then someone without alts, which means your raid suffers. You want everyone to gear up evenly, not certain people faster and others slower.
  6. Estred Well-Known Member

    For our system we run.
    • Full Member
    • Part Time Member (75% raid attendance and below members - Limited to a max bid of 15 DKP against full member bids)
    • In Guild Designated Raid Alts
    • Full Recruits
    • In Guild Member Alts (Officers may suggest that certain loot be passed to exceptional probationary members. Passing on loot is not mandatory by any means!!)
    • Probationary Member (Normal Mode Encounters Only)
    It may not be perfect but since we run two level of recruitment we ensure most loot stays in guild unless someone backstabs us for loot. This at least also keeps Main-Raiders in gear even people who are raiders but have limited log-times are above normal alts.
  7. Balbasur Active Member


    I never understood why guilds give to alts before recruits. Can you explain please :). I personally just left a guild that did this and never could understand why, I earned DKP but couldn't spend them for a whole month ironically I would jump ship to a much higher ranked/better guild after getting full set of Obol gear(and before my recruit period would end 29/30 days). Not only was I parsing/healing better than the main member, but they would gear out a toon they never played any more before me while I was left to just let DKP sit.. do you really thing that help build a loyalty to the guild?
  8. Balbasur Active Member

    IMO it should be Raider -> Raid Member alt that is in raid -> recruit(make him pay dkp or plat or dock future dkp [if he was in on the kill]) -> alts

    provided it isn't a slr raid; also why do you even have just EM raid force?
  9. Estred Well-Known Member

    Simply put, we (as a collective guild) got sick of tossers (past and previous guilds-past) joining to get gear and then leaving the second they got a few things they wanted. Betrayal by recruits is the reason we place them so low on the gear-list. That set of rules is designed to be all encompassing thus we have to have differentiations between HM and EM.

    Oh, and about loyalty... we gave a recruit a Mythical bow because he was a ranger and it helped him the most. Once he got his gear he left. As such he will remain nameless to not ruin his/her reputation.
  10. Tylia Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, but that still doesn't make any sense. We take main bids first. If someone puts in an alt bid, and another member puts in a main bid.. the main bid overrides the alt bid. If we have a new recruit, their bid over rides an alt bid and is behind a main bid. And yes, we require the word "alt" after an alt bid so we know it is an alt bid. This system works great for our guild, and we have no problem with someone choosing to gear up their alts before gearing up their main raiding character.
  11. Chronus Active Member

    I feel it's best to explain this with an example, one that is true.

    I main a warlock and have only 1 alt, a bruiser. We have killed Commanders once and the brawler bp dropped, and went to the only main brawler. I still need lots of gear from every named in Plane of War except Boar and Tagrin on my warlock. When we next go to clear PoW I will hold back on bidding high on those items I need from Eriak, Glokus and Berik as well as the mage bp. This is due to wanting to bid on that there brawler bp. So my warlock will not be geared as quickly. So the main raid will suffer as I will do less dps and so we may fail a dps check. I wouldn't get those items for a lot longer if I did end up spending a few hundred dkp on the brawler bp.

    But anyways, back on the topic of platinum in chests, think each chest's 20-50p could afford to cover the 4-6 white adornments anyways if like you claim it's 200p for 2 white adorns on your server anyways?
  12. Tylia Well-Known Member

    Well then that is your own personal choice and mistake. It is not the guilds fault that you would choose to withhold bidding on the items needed to gear up your main raiding toon. You, and you alone, would be causing the raid to suffer because of your lack of priorities. The implication I am getting from you (and no, I am not being condescending or derogatory to you, this is just how I am interpreting the information you have presented) is that you expect your guild to baby sit you and lead you by the hand as to what the correct path is for you to take in regards to bidding on loot, because apparently you can't be trusted to make a mature and logical decision on your own. So they make it extremely easy for you by shepherding you down the "correct" path with limited choices on your part.. you can ONLY spend dkp on your main and you can ONLY spend plat on your alt. If that is what works for you and that is what you need, more power to you and your guild in your way of doing things. Seriously. ;)

    As for back to the topic.. the plat in the raid chests helps with expenses for a lot of different things. So while it may not completely cover the cost of some things, the lack of the income definitely does present a deficit to my bank account.
  13. Lempo Well-Known Member

    I have never saw a guild that did not have on the app a question that asked if you had read and understood the guild charter and DKP policy they should have never gotten to that point in the first place, furthermore even if it isn't in the app it is still the individuals responsibility to make sure that they can live with the rules the guild operates under.

    As for the plat in chests the LEAST SOE could do is respond to the topic. Smokeblower recently did an interview grandstanding and punding his chest about how SOE realizes that listening to the playerbase is important and how they were renewing that effort in PS2 and other games and what a difference it is making, of course is nothing more than lip service like the rest of the garbage he serves up, it matters for nothing more than that moment. It is something that has been standard for ages, the players asking why is more than justified but they have yet to even respond to the question.

    It isn't that SOE. Is this intended or not? Was it an oversight? Is the reason no shards are in the chests because you know the content you are serving up is thin and you want to force the playerbase to run old content to get shards to buy adorns for new gear? Was the plat removed from the chests so you could appease the segment of the playerbase that whines about others having more than they do?
    Neiloch likes this.
  14. slippery Well-Known Member

    I absolutely 100% guarantee that every guild that uses the same dkp for mains and alts has people who's gear suffers because they have alts. It's absolutely unavoidable. DKP spent on alts is DKP that should be used on mains. It's DKP that is being wasted not improving the ability of your raid to succeed. This is why guild charge alts plat, because then DKP is used for it's real purpose, a fair system to better the gear of your members.
    Iowna, Neiloch and Balbasur like this.
  15. Tylia Well-Known Member

    And if that is what works for your guild then that is great. The truth of the matter is that guilds have different ideas and opinions, and as long as a set process is acceptable by the members of said guild and actively working as desired within that organization, it's of no consequence if other guilds view the process as ineffective or "unfair". Our process works for us. That's all that matters. ;)
  16. Crychtonn Active Member

    Doing loot this xpac sucks and will continue to suck until they make red/yellow adornments drop seperate. You've made doing loot on raids a painful chore that wastes time and is a headache. Why on earth you changed a perfectly fine system people liked into this train wreck of a system I'd love to know.
    Lempo and Neiloch like this.
  17. slippery Well-Known Member

    Ignorance is bliss.
    Neiloch and Balbasur like this.
  18. Tylia Well-Known Member

    Yes. I suppose it is. I won't hold it against you. ;)
  19. Arieste Well-Known Member

    Will add my opinion this - i'm an officer and former leader of a mid-range raiding guild, so i do have to deal with obols and adorns and stuff on a regular basis as well. We run officer-assigned loot, so we actually have to discuss and decide whether to give up an item for the adornment or for the item.

    My thoughts:

    Obols - having to assign them is idiotic and a waste of time. I would like to see either a way to make their assignment round-robin or just make 2 random bosses in each zone drop one obol for all eliigble people in raids.

    Lack of Plat in chests - i'd like to see this put back in. My guild has limited raid time, and we really don't want to spend our time doing SLR for plat, we'd much rather just get it in the boxes. As it stands now, raiders basically have to pay to raid, since raiding itself produces no coin income unless you sell loot. This is stupid. Alternatively, just make all loot tradeable so that we don't have to spend raid time doing SLR and can just put it up broker. If the intention of the system is to address the fact that guilds can make enough plat with SLR, this would help accomplish that and eliminate the annoyances associated with SLR.

    Adornments on gear - personally, i don't mind the new system. It's different and it can be frustrating, but at least now you have to consider the value of the adornment vs. the value of the item. Plus, with the addition of dislodgers, you only need to get each adorn once or maybe twice (if you keep multiple sets of gear). I think the upside of this is that less gear is now totally useless, so all that extra monk junk is that much more likely to be good for someone if it has a decent adorn in it. (It would help if the % of adorns dropped reflected the % of adorns used - meaning more Potency and Crit Bonus drops and a lot frackin less +Riposte and +Ammo Conserv.

    The compounding effect: Net result of obols is that loot assignment takes longer, so raids take longer. Net result of lack of plat is that we need to SLR to get plat, so raids take longer. Net result of adornmens dropping on gear is that it takes longer to decide on loot, so raids take longer.

    So in total, we've now had 3 raid changes that all make raids take longer. I wonder if the developers are aware of this and had it as their intention.
  20. Draylore Well-Known Member

    1) Obols dropping form raid zones is stupid..take them out. Make them drop out of solo chests....at least it would make sense considering who is really gonna use those obols. My raid leader keeps giving me obols that I really have no use for.

    2) The new way red adornments are done in CoE is just ********. I think i know what they were trying for and I guess they accomplished it.....i.e loot has 'value' longer. But the royal pita it has created for guilds and raid rules is not worth it. I feel really bad everytime I bid on a piece of gear just for the adorn.....even then its only when noone needs the item itself, no new recruits (which is always in flux so eligibility for adorns is constantly reset)...yada yada. Just stupid design IMO

    3) Really could care less one way or the other about plat from raid boxes.
    Neiloch likes this.