Everquest 2 Remastered?

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Jesaine, Aug 29, 2022.

  1. Xillean Well-Known Member

    Sure, I'd love a remaster and id give it a go with my guild and family who still play.

    However, it so unlikely to happen I will just have to be pleasantly surprised if it ever occurs.
    Riverbear and Ayodi like this.
  2. Avirodar Well-Known Member

    Some consistency would be nice. Your position has see-sawed from important, to not a big deal, to an important achievement.

    So a deal that would have geo-blocked a large chunk of the player base, and segregate the community, was a good idea..? Ouch.

    That decision had nothing to do with who SOE chose to partner with, it had everything to do with the deal SOE happily negotiated and signed, treating players as transactional cattle. A decision from the same company (SOE) where an executive referred to players as being credit cards with legs. The same company that tried to gaslight the entire player base about the Columbus Nova purchase. And lets not forget about how they rolled out both the cash shop and FTP model...

    You are well within your right to have a lot of trust and confidence in DBG/DPG, just don't expect the same from me. Even with multiple changes at the top of the overall company structure, I have seen little/no meaningful change in a positive direction. By all accounts, it is the same ship going in the same direction, just a different logo on the main sail.

    Class balance is a mess. AA trees are a mess. Stat bloat and inflation are a mess. I have lost track of how many times we were promised class balancing, only to get either nothing, or a small handful of changes that leaves players wondering if those who made the changes actually play the game. The 64 bit client, godrays, ambient occlusion and a fix to shadows are cute and all, but barely dip a toe into the water of what I would consider worthy of rebuilding trust and confidence, or a game that can successfully bring people back in.

    Where we are on the same page is if DPG somehow managed to produce a good EQ2 remake, or a good EQ3, we'd both be playing it. But that is a cosmic sized "if".
  3. Avirodar Well-Known Member

    I am not preventing anyone from having fun. He is choosing to engage in a discussion on the forums. Even though we disagree on some things, I agree with him on others, and I hope he enjoys his time both in EQ2 and on these forums.

    Thank you for your contribution.
    Twyla likes this.
  4. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    Ok, real quick before I go to bed. We can discuss these things as long as we stay civil and respectful.

    First part, the bug you mentioned is in fact something that is important to me, but I also understand why it wasn't taken care of before, and I enjoy the fact that we - the community - came together in order to get some dev attention on the subject. Do you understand what I mean now? I can try to elaborate further if you wish.

    Interesting how you claim to know so much about the SOE and Prosieben deal. Where you part of that deal or were you working for either company back then? Do you know all of the details that went on in the background and what they were trying to do for certain? Do you know how hard it was for the EU and SOE team trying to handle the transitional situation etc. ? Or are you getting that info from the interwebs / media? Same goes for the Columbus Nova and FTP model thingy. Were you involved in any shape, form or way? Would you do it any better, if you were in their position as a business or profit oriented company? If so, let's hear it then. Like I said earlier, mistakes were made, no denying that. Most of us know this, most of us were there. Quick question: Have you ever made a mistake in your life that you regretted at some point further down the line?

    It's interesting how gamers nowadays are focusing so much of their energy on the negative things they consider scandals. It's almost like some ppl are just waiting for bad stuff to happen in order to justify their rage against something or someone. Reminds me when I was at the beach one day and some poor soul tripped and all of a sudden ppl were laughing and a bunch of seagulls came along to pick on him and the chips that spread all over the sandy beach etc. Sure, I ate one of the fallen chips myself, was hungry as hell, but I did help the guy nonetheless. Anyway, look over to Blizzard, EA, Ubisoft, Funcom, Bioware, small indie dev trying to survive, you name it and you'll find some scandalous claim about X, Y, Z subject. Blizzard just got hit hard by something like that actually, you most certainly know what I mean. I literally just listed a few of the things that we, as EQ2 players, get that other communities in similar situations do not. That alone is a big plus in my book - and the fact that this world is still online after two decades too. My brother is still playing the single and last expac and noteworthy game update that Age of Conan got all the way back in 2010. *soundofcrickets* In 2010. Let that sink in for a moment.

    Not expecting anything from you, but please also understand that I am looking at the franchise with a more positive note and that I am enjoying my time here. If you've really been around in this genre for all this time, going back all the way to 2004 and possibly even longer, you most certainly must have seen how much negativity is sweeping through the entire genre. Through - the - entire - genre - at - this - point. Again, I'm sick of it.

    If you think our ftp model is bad, oh boy, you haven't seen the worst of it in other games then. Wohooo, our ftp is actually super generous and the amount of free content is incredible to say the least. Would you work for free or would you put up a vast amount of stuff that you worked on for over a decade up for free just like that? I sure wouldn't in this day and age. That said, I would indeed prefer a different approach to this, not sure how much sense that would make from a monetary point of view though, mentioned it in a previous post I believe, but that doesn't mean that ftp completely sucks rn, because it doesn't. Can it be improved? Maybe, possibly.

    Everything else you mentioned about class balance, aa, stat bloat etc. It's not like you don't have a point with some of these, because you do, but if stuff like this gets to you so much that you forsee EQ2 shutting down rather sooner than later due to these "flaws", then you will never be satisfied in any mmo, because they all suffer from problems like these, especially after major expacs and game updates. Just go over to the WoW or Swtor forums and read what's been going on for the last couple of years. In fact, WoW just had a huge shitstorm bc of this some time ago, and Asmongold went Super Saiyan because of it. Please go ahead and pick any other meaningful or well known mmo on the market and tell me which one of the many is in a perfect state where everything is working 10 / 10 and where no one is unhappy about the things that you just mentioned and more. Once you find that world, have fun, if you find it that is. I haven't found it even once in all of these years, because these games are moving targets and changing all of the time. Each update or single patch has the potential to change something, which in turn will make playerbase a happy and playerbase b rage and playerbase c probably doesn't care.

    Said it before, will say it again, there is always going to be - something - *insertreasonhere* for ppl to claim the game is dying, bleeding out, not worthy or whatever. If you feel that way, it's ok, no hard feelings, but not everyone feels that way.

    All in all, everything is ok my friend.

    But yes, I agree, if EQ3 ever comes out, I'll be there to try it. If we get upgrades to our current games instead or at the same time, good too. I'm open for a bunch of options or alternatives at this point.

    I'll just leave it at that mate. I'm tired, it's 6 am here rn. With this I leave you for today. Good night everyone and happy hunting!
    Riverbear, Breanna and Ayodi like this.
  5. Avirodar Well-Known Member

    I sincerely hope that you are not suggesting I can't speak on any of those subjects unless I was working in SOE or ProSieben at the time. Knowing about information which SOE posted in public FAQ's and announcements is valid information to act on. The Geo Blocking was announced to the public by SOE, and met by such overwhelming backlash they had to eventually yield... Or as they would say, they "listened". The warranted outrage regarding publicly declared components of the PSS.1 deal was epic. I still remember the massive threads hitting 100+ pages, and how ban-happy the forum mods were on anyone who dared to post that EQ2wire comic about the "deal".

    As for the Columbus Nova topic, SOE management made posts announcing Columbus Nova purchased SOE. All of the news across a wide range of publications all referenced Columbus Nova. But the minute US sanctions on Russian oligarchs come into play, it was all totally a legit big misunderstanding and Columbus Nova never bought anything. Apparently no one at SOE knew who was buying their company, not even the SOE President.

    SOE online acquired by Columbus Nova — MMORPG.com Forums
    SOE acquired, becomes Daybreak Game Company | GamesIndustry.biz
    Sony Online Entertainment sold off by Sony, renamed Daybreak Game Company - Polygon
    And this is a pretty good one: EQ2Wire » Breaking! SOE Acquired by Columbus Nova, to become Daybreak Game Company
    I was speaking about the way they introduced it, not how it stacks up against other games. When EQ2x was introduced, the RAF program vanished from non-EQ2x servers. The main everquest2.com website directed players to the EQ2x system (would have to recheck to confirm, almost certain it had a different launcher system that didn't list standard Live servers). A one-way-only character copy service was offered from Live servers to the EQ2x servers (yes, copy not move). What little promotion occurred was for EQ2x. Then they turn around and claim that EQ2x is clearly so "popular" it justifies forcing that model on all servers. It was a deeply manipulative and deceptive way to force the FTP model

    I am not saying I foresee EQ2 shutting down rather sooner than later. I am pointing out those critical core gameplay issues hamstring the chances of EQ2 rebounding. I do not want to see EQ2 close, and still hold out hope for the miracle of either a well made and genuine successor, or a wide scale course correction for this title. But a lot needs to change for that to happen, not just a couple of cosmetic graphical add-ons. On that angle, mileage, targets and goals for other individuals may vary. The way you see hope and potential for the future is a good thing, but I also hope you can understand why some of us may need to see a lot more actual tangible change to feel the same.
  6. Almee Well-Known Member

    I see no point in arguing about what happened in the past as the game now has a different owner who is clearly engaged in making EQ2 a great game again. And while there are lots of things I'd like to see go, and others I'd like to see added, I know from my own experience developing games that major changes take time and money. I imagine we are currently seeing changes go live that have been months in development.

    Furthermore, what one player likes another player may despise so there is no way any game is going to please everyone. It would help, though, if game developers took the basic concepts of educational psychology and sociology into consideration when developing their games. Games, people pay to play, should be designed for enjoyment, not for work. The Norath, Sturmlocke envisions, seems like a lovely world to adventure in. I would love to see his vision become a reality.
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  7. Celestia Well-Known Member

    I was literally just coming to post the same thing.

    We get it, you’re jaded. This is one of the times I want to say, “Why are you here?”
    But I already know he’s coming to post some snarky response.
  8. Avirodar Well-Known Member

    Same reason as anyone else, because this is a place where people can express their views if they so desire.

    If my pointing out how EQ2s track record has eroded trust and confidence makes you uncomfortable, that is unfortunate, but not my problem. If you think the solution to that is some underhanded implication that I should not be here, I feel sorry for you. People should be allowed to express their view, in the positive or negative, on various topics as they deem fit. Implications that only certain trains of thought should be present/posting is a stroll down Fascism Boulevard.
    Twyla likes this.
  9. Celestia Well-Known Member

    True, I guess I just don’t get the point of arguing about the same thing over and over again. I’m sorry that EQ2 left a bad taste in your mouth, but just as you say my feelings are not your problem, you should know that the devs are the same. Oh yes they provide a service but I’m sure it gets hella old after a while. Especially when one does it constantly.
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  10. Avirodar Well-Known Member

    It can depend on circumstance and context. As an example, Sturmlocke and I hold some very different views, for many different reasons. The more he has explained his position, the better I can understand things from his point of view. I hope the same stands for him of me, I will let him say if he feels otherwise. Isn't that process one of the key points of a discussion forum existing?

    And I agree with you, that Devs don't have to care about our feelings. But the Devs are not paying us to play the game, directly or indirectly, so it is a very different dynamic. As long as matters to not devolve to actual misconduct or abuse (which forum mods and community managers handle), I am sure Devs understand and can handle the fact that it's not possible to make everyone happy, and it comes with the territory.
    Twyla likes this.
  11. Celestia Well-Known Member

    I must tell you, I’m pleasantly surprised. You know how the internet is and you still stay civil. Thanks for that.
    Breanna, Twyla and Avirodar like this.
  12. gambitak Well-Known Member

    First, for OP, I would highly support this. Hell, I love the graphics of this game, as it sits, let alone with a major upgrade. I wonder if they've thought about crowd-sourcing a piece of development (art, database back end, et al.).

    @Sturmlocke I am a longtime network/database/systems security expert with software development through the USAF, having learned Fortran, COBOL, Ada, and many other languages. I absolutely have respect and empathy with the devs. I may not like certain game design choices (I still can't, for the life of me, understand why melee classes cast spells... I mean, combat arts), but I do understand the enormity of maintaining a project like this as well as trying to decide a way to move forward while keeping revenue at a profitable level.

    My mental image of a melee casting combat art spells:

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  13. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    lol, that gif! Just wanted to say that I am with you my friend, I agree. I believe a lot of us with an IT background can somehow relate to our devs. Showed my wife this thread the other day and she even got a bit emotional, because she knows very well how hard it can be. Not making any excuses here, but some things just aren't as simple as flipping a switch. We were talking about this very subject in Nathan Napalms last Star Wars Galaxies stream, which had one of SWG former devs with us in chat, and we are also touching upon this subject in the post "Vanguard - to be or not to be" here in the EQ2 forums. Ttobey dropped a few words, and just going by that, and also after watching the YT video "SWG post mortem", or by watching the Anarchy Online 20Y celeberation video for that matter, you can see how much emotion these devs still have in them when thinking about projects like these and their old team. TTobey said it well, working on these huge projects can literally suck the life out of you, and seeing ppl react negative no matter what, how or when you do it = sucks balls to be very direct. SWG dev in Nathan's stream actually confirmed this by expressing his sadness when they noticed things were starting to go bad, so we asked him if he'd go for a second chance, if a miracle would happen and if DBG were to give them another shot at an official SWG relaunch on Steam, and he said yes. He literally said his former team still has fond memories of SWG. He joked about being an old gen of dev and that it will take more to perform such a feat, and while he is right that it'll most certainly take more POWER to accomplish such a feat, their sheer amount of determination can perform wonders too. I see this in our open source Linux community all the time tbh, nothing new. In other words, those old SWG devs might be a bit older now, but the fire is still there and very much alive. With age comes experience and wisdom.

    That said, I haven't forgotten our discussion here, and neither have I forgotten what I wish to say to Avirodar. I busted my shoulder yesterday and now a muscle or nerve is going crazy, can't lift up my right arm and hand, severe pain. So I am typing this with one hand rn, will return to further discuss things with ya'll here once healed. Love this discussion, super interesting, especially when reading the stuff that you just posted @Gambitak.

    Always keep that vision strong and your chin high - always. You'll never be able to please everyone on this planet, we're all too different for that to happen, so you just gotta make the best out of whatever situation you're in.

    You can only please some of the ppl, some of the time.
  14. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    PS: Almost forgot, need to share this before I go.


    Shadows and water are getting fixed with the upcoming expack this year. Was talking about this with Avi a few posts back. So it seems that we, the folks that kept their spirits high and the vision alive, were right after all - our devs CAN in FACT go the distance and they are in fact capable of fixing, enhancing and improving our virtual world. The more we support them, the more energy they can harnest from their community in order to justify the effort. They will go the extramile for us, just gotta shake hands on some things every now and then.

    Who knows, maybe they'll even go a step further and throw in some of those beautiful EQN water effects in there while they're at it. We'll just have to wait and see what they do now.
  15. Laera Member

    People wanted an updated Halflife, and thus Black Mesa was born. "It can't be done" really is just an excuse.
    gambitak likes this.
  16. gambitak Well-Known Member

    Sadly, in my experience, funding is the major stopping point for any major design changes and editions. I would love to sit in on some planning meetings to watch and learn their methodology to determine what makes it into an expac, why it does and moving forward past that. It's easy to be an arm-chair developer without any stake in the outcome or without understanding their process (I've done it, myself), but I would rather be part of the process.
    Twyla likes this.
  17. Kana New Member

  18. AOE1 Well-Known Member

    The owner is clearly engaged in making eq2 a great game again? When did I lose my eyesight because I am not seeing it. And by the numbers of people who moved to Varsoon, they aren't seeing it either. The stat bloat on live is staggering and overly complicated mechanics is ridiculous. And why did they move? I just gave you two of them
    Avirodar likes this.
  19. AOE1 Well-Known Member

    Those of us that have been pay the subs, buying the yearly (not so cheap) expansions ARE supporting the game and those that are paid by the company to keep this game going (devs and management). There is only so much support we can give and after awhile, when we believe that we are ignored, when we are not informed, when we are basically nothing but their paycheck, we just get frustrated and say "no more".