EQ2 Producer's Letter - December 2005

I'm not a PvPer, but the PvP plans sound intriguing. I'll be watching the developments closely. Lots of potentials for good and ill.

One small sugestion, though, could you also open an "RP preferred" PvP server at the same time as the other 2? A lot of RPers do like getting into conflict based RP and the cold war just begs for it, but... a lot of RP-bashers are heavily into PvP and those two trypes mix like oil and water. Opening an RP preferred PvP server along with a Station Exchange and "normal" one would give a way for people to self-segregate and not create issues for each other. An RP server shouldn't have a different ruleset, other than an encouragement for Roleplay.


About the archetype/class/subclass change... While I agree with a lot of the concepts brought up in the letter about class progression (and yes, the 1-10 and 1-20 stretch does have a huge amount of repetition and decreased playability as it is now), I'm also left with a lot of questions.

1. How does that affect betraying?
Would it negate the possibility of a wood elf necromancer, a ratonga paladin, an iksar monk, a high elf coercer, etc? Or would someone, for example, from a good race choosing a Freeport only profession just start on the "evil" version of the Isle of Refuge and not have to do a betrayal quest (which currently has lore and storyline)? Or would they be living freely, for example, in Qeynos with a Freeport profession until they reached the "betrayal" level? If so, how would they be compelled to leave or would they even have to betray at all? Having, for example, necromancers living freely in Qeynos rather negates a lot of the current lore and the division between the cities. Likewise, the open presence of paladins in Freeport would be very jarring. But betraying needs to be something with.. umm.. consequences, with weight, with lore and storyline, not jsut a click OK.

2. In losing the class quests, will we also lose the quests and tasks which give a sense of involvement with the world in proving oneself to the trainers to be granted the ability to go on in a chosen profession?

3. How is this going to be integrated into the tradeskills? Are tradeskills still going to be on an archetype/class/subclass structure or will they be modified, too?

I know, I know... all in good time, grasshopper.

I look forward to the progression changes. I love multi toons but all but my top two have stalled pre 20 out of sheer boredom. I think this will help.

As far as PvP, I hate it, as long as it stays off my server I don't care what you do with it.

I'm not sure that being below 20 and not being able to be evil enough is the reason that not many play on the evil side though if that is what you're thinking. Freeport is just ugly and depressing. I don't know where you guys got the idea that evil folks don't like pretty things, I'm fairly sure that's why many evil people ARE evil because they revere sparkle and surface things beyond harmony and happiness. If it were MY game, I'd leave the good side alone and make the evil side very much like Vegas (I'm not saying Vegas is evil) with steel towers and flashing neon lights, and then have the seemy underside too of course, but the whole place is just.. grey.

Anyway, I'm loving the Frostfell idea as well. Have a good Frostfell one and all.

I love RPing and enjoy doing pvp quite a bit, this would be wonderful. Right now I'm torn between staying in a RP server or joining a pvp one as my main, but I wouldn't hesitate to restart on such a server if something like this did happen.

That was my thought. I'm not a big PvP person in general, but I'd probably jump on a RP PvP server.

I think that these are all awesome changes. Me and a few friends have been waiting for news on the PvP server for a while now. One thing I hope the PvP servers do not include though: The automatic facing of your enemy when you autoattack. In my opinion, it adds to the skill level needed in PvP if you have to use your camera to face the opponent and aren't automatically pointed in their direction. I think many people would agree with me on this.

What about having a third PVP server to where people can transfer their existing character?
I beleive that after one year building a char, being a "The Loyal" customer we could enjoy the pvp with our beloved avatar.
If this idea have been debated and postponed or refuted by the Devs, I would be eager to know details of this decision.

Self-segregate? I know you mean well, but in my opinion, having an RP-preferred PVP server would draw griefers (or RP-bashers) like flies to honey.

Without the archetype->class progression does this mean there might be a beter chance of seeing new classes in upcoming expansions? Before it sounded daunting because they'd need to be plugged into the existing progression.

I'd really like to know how this will affect the betrayal quest? I have a Ratongan Monk, and planned to bring a Dark Elf and Iskaar over to the good side as well... If the betrayal quest will be removed when this goes in and you will no longer be able to do this then I would really like to know so I can move these characters sooner than I planned to.

Oh and please don't say the exchange server will be allowing transfer, because as far as I know EQ2 is not a North America only game and any non US player would get no reasons to join a sever in wish they don't evolve under the same rules.

Really don't care about PvP in any shape or form, but this....

...is spot on. I've always thought the game doesn't start until you are 20. Up to that point it just seems an excuse to bulldoze through levels 1-20, in anyway possible (quest, grind etc, however you feel at the time) just to obtain the final class you wanted. Only then you can take a breather and start consolidating your chosen class a bit more thoughtfully.
Selecting the class at start (and gaining appropriate abilities) begins the consolidation process right from the word go; you know what you are, you know what you will be and this, imo, will focus the gameplay to a great extent.
Good job! Now, as a thought, seeing as you will be tinkering with the character creation screen, please can we see the starting stats for each race?

You Sir/Madam just hit the nail on the head.

Many of us pre-launch/pre-beta had this vision that the Archtype system would have did just that. Allow us to start on the isle as a Fighter then play through for 6 levels decide "nah not for me maybe I will like mage better" and go talk to someone on the isle to reset it.

This vision to those of us who thought this before beta and to much info was revealed felt it was going to go even deeper and picking a class was going to be a true way to play each of the 3 class branches for a bit each to get a feel of what we liked. DId we like being a cleric or does a druid sound better. Then having come subclass time been able to try out each of the two choices to find if we liked the fury style better than the warden style.

Granted that was a presumed opinion, but given the hows and explanation at the time it wasn't a far fetched way to precieve what we were told. Had it happened that way then it truely would have been something to hold onto, but at this point and a main and i forget how many alt/alt rerolls later it just isn't as glamerous as it could have been.

One other thing is I really hope the change to the Isle is what I am thinking it to be. When it was discribed about the isle and that a lot of us had the vision that the isle was netural and Good and Evil both would reside on it at the same time. The fact that the ambassadors are on opposite sides and refer to the non-existant ambassador hints that at some point that was true or the intial plan pre-launch. I really hope that the thing happening with the Isle is going to rectify that and actually make it a Neutral haven as it should have been at launch. Just way to many hints that it should have been that way left there to date and was a total bummer to not see it that way at launch.

As for Betrayel while it was a fun experience to do once, but in my opinion it was never really implemented well. To date its a headache to do and the majority of the mobs remain Heroic. Sorry, but after the intial launch rush and the froglok launch there just is no real help or incentive for one person let alone five to help out fellow players to do these mobs. At this point with the plan to archtype changes I am curious at what will happen with Betrayel(not that I will miss the headaches it causes), and if this means that picking a Froglok Necromancer on the Isle means we will go straight to freeport. In a way it would make sense after all your game life started on the Isle not the Cities. Just becuase you were rescued at sea doesn't mean you wern't already evil prior to your pickup regardless of your race.

Could care less about PvP, although I acknowledge some find it desireable.
Very saddened to think that people, time, and budget will be put on tweaking/balancing/testing/maintaining PvP while every time I play I hit some critical or annoying bug. Every time I play. I've lost track of the number of months mobs have been melting into walls, becoming untouchable, and whacking away at me. I'm still waiting for bug fixes and basic content in T6 tradeskilling. Who would of thought the laziest approach of cut-and-paste could be so badly bungled?
Don't give me that "two different teams" stuff either - good lord, I'm over 5 years old and I made it through sixth grade. Go high enough up and there's one budget and a decision on how to spend it.
* * *
I applaud the changes to the level 1 - 20 experience, as it keeps re-play energized and may capture some new folks. That's good on both counts.

You really have no idea about game design in general if you're truly concerned about the points you've brought forward because of this letter. The people involved in the PvP system have(and more than likely had) nothing to do with tradeskills - each branch of the game has designers dedicated to it, and THOSE are the people that fix those problems. A guy programming the PvP combat system isn't going to be fixing busted or missing recipes.

In regards to the changes regarding the class and city system, I have a few specific concerns to raise. Hopefully an answer may be forthcoming, but if not I'll have to hope that the concerns have been addressed internally and I simply have to "wait and see".
Obviously the betrayal quest is staying (per Scott's reference in the PVP section of his letter), but without the class/subclass restrictions necessary to limit the betrayal to level 17, will we see betrayals possible at other levels now? ...or will this only relate to new characters? Will it be possible for higher level characters to switch citizenship, even just once.

As the Guildmaster for a strict Qeynos-only guild, do I know have to start figuring out how to handle applications for Defilers and Shadowknights? :smileywink:

This is about the new lore and stuff for races and classes below level 20. I'm currently a lv 43 Erudite Conjuror. Since I am already over level 20... will I not be able to take part in the lore behind my class and race once the starting towns and adventure areas are changed to fit each race and class? I feel that lore is one of the biggest parts of my experience with EQ2. I agree that the first 20 levels just made the game feel like everyone was playing the same type of class, and that everyones final class was basically the same with different looks.

I would like to be able to take COMPLETE AND FULL ADVANTAGE of the new lore for my character without having to re-create another Erudite Conjuror. Will this be possible?
Message Edited by Leviathanxx1 on 12-16-2005 04:30 PM

"Yet in the current system, if you have a Conjurer, there's 20 levels of barrier in trying out a Necromancer. In most cases if you want to pick a new class farther away in the class tree, where the barrier is only 10 levels, that chasm is still too large for many to cross, since you've already played much the same experience."

That's EXACTLY right. I have a level 24 necromancer that is just an "alt," and I didnt really know whether I'd enjoy a necro or conjuror more when I created it. The barrier of having to do another 20 levels of summoner stuff before I'd even get to the subclass-specific attributes has been keeping me from advancing a conjuror to that point. Now I can!!

Desirable? Wow that's a radical step, how different from the itemization of T6 raid loot.

BTW Scott also said...
Stay tuned to the forums in the coming weeks for more information on both the ruleset and how you can help playtest it on the PvP beta server.
So yes they do plan to test there buddy. I think this will bring a lot of people from WoW.. I like the changes.
and you have to understand that EQ1 or Live.. has 4 PvP servers, all with different rulesets so there is no limit.. there is
Dietys, Race - Good Evil, Race - Size, and Chaos. So the PVP or implementation of anything in this game is limitless.. Just give them time instead of making short uninformed comments.. read the forums. or read dev tracker you get hints about stuff al the like.. like Kingdom of Sky.
Isnt that right moongraud.. a little forum slip?

This is the same debate that has been ongoing for years with DAOC and the /face and /stick commands. People like yourself think that it dumbs down PvP and removes an element of skill. However, the one thing that you have to consider is that it also is somewhat of an equalizer for those who have slower Internet connections, high latency or lower-end hardware; this is particularly true when you consider that some classes can get damage bonuses from rear attacks, etc.

I agree that, if all things were equal, it would be better to require the player manage this. However, how fun is it to know that you've just got nailed by a Ranger, not because you're an unskilled player, but because a lag spike or graphics hitch meant that you couldn't turn to face your attacker in time? Not very.

I'd also presume that the last thing they want to do is turn this into a twitch game where you're basically playing a medieval fantasy version of Quake. At its core, the game should still about character development and progression, not just endless fragfests. How new your hardware is or how low your ping time is shouldn't be a significant factor in a player's ability to enjoy PvP, in my opinion.