EQ Next - What I DON'T Want to See

Discussion in 'Expansions and Adventure Packs' started by ARCHIVED-Neiloch, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    So there a large thread and smaller ones of what people want to see. This could be endless in great ideas frankly. What I'm more concerned about is MMO 'mainstays' that I am sick of and things I just plain don't like in EQ2.
    -Tab Targeting Combat: This may seem small but at this point it is nearly a non-starter for me. It also happens to be a non-starter for any kind of action combat, even if these upcoming MMO's insist they still have action combat with it. Tab-targeting = last gen combat. The End. SoE has already made a decent start of good combat with DCUO, lets not take two steps back, shall we?
    -Shallow Crafting: This is an EQ2 concern. Either make the crafting a truly deep and rewarding experience, or just make it 'set it and forget it' crafting. This extremely easy yet reactive crafting of EQ2 is painfully boring and time consuming.
    -Calling big groups 'Raid content': 2 or 2 1/2 groups does not raiding content make. I've already had to mourn the loss of what I consider real MMO raiding when the sizes of EQ1 and DAOC weren't carried on in new MMO's. 20 players is the absolute minimum I would consider a base for the bulk of raid content. x2 and x3 sizes are fine for some parts, though. This speaks to another point.
    -Calling small groups an 'MMO': Call me crazy but I like my massively multiplayer online games to be massively multiplayer. Not massively simultaneous single player or small group. A persistent world with lots of people running around does not make a MMO all on its own. They are already trying this bunk with these supposed 'next gen' MMO's that have been announced and feature lists laid out.
    -Multiple hotbars needed/Bloated ability pool: Would be nice if a large part of my screen real estate wasn't buttons I had to push. I'd prefer it be used to view the gameplay. This is usually a result of a bloated ability pool, 5-10 ways to hit a single target isn't needed when you can just make one of those reuse fast and bump up their overall performance.
    -Disabling the ability to PLAY: Fine in moderation, extremely maddening in bulk. Basically control effects. being repeatedly disabled imposes the exact opposite of gameplay. When something happens that is the equivilent of unplugging your keyboard and mouse and there is no way out, it is completely unnecessary and has little to nothing to do with skill.
    I'll probably come up with more as the days go on.
  2. ARCHIVED-Kenazeer Guest

    Ammo for rangers not make your list?
  3. ARCHIVED-alaplayer Guest

    Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:
    I'm not so sure I agree with this, I'm not being snarky but if I want to play Asteroids or Galaga I have MAME, and the 3/6 button games are not a lot of improvement.
    The games mechanics justify the amount of abilities, sure every class has it's useless ones, leave them off hotbars. The different abilities/spells the way they interact with one another and with what others are doing in group/raid add a lot to the game. It seperates the superior players, anyone can madly mash button(s) and the more you can mash in a variety of ways adds a bit of flavor.
    If you are looking for better use of screen real estate in EQNext then bags, chat, guild, raid in fact any and all windows need to be able to move to a secondary monitor.
  4. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    If you think managing a lot of buttons equates to skill you are sorely mistaken. For example the very games you mentioned can become exceedingly difficult with its limited amount of abilities. Juggling 3 running chainsaws is much more impressive than juggling 8 nerf balls.
    On every class I have played on here there are more than a few abilities that could just be merged and normalized. Any secondary effects they have are either negligible or could be put on some other ability for utility. Each ability should be 'high impact' opposed to just another step in a rotation.
    Requiring a second screen just so I can see more of the game is just silly.
    Thing is out of what I listed this is the one I am least worried about because it seems the 'winds' of MMO's is leaning towards single hotbars with about 6-8 abilities that either switch out of combat or are context sensitive.
    Kenazeer wrote:
    If they have to be told 'no ammo' in any capacity there is no hope for EQ Next resembling anything like a next generation MMO.
  5. ARCHIVED-Plaguemeister Guest

    A lot of the "nextgen" mmo stuff is just simple simon mechanics. More and better ways to dumb down gaming is just a continuation of "gamebreaking" in a new fashion.
  6. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Such as? And opposed too?
    Seems some of you have the idea that MMO's have been anywhere near 'difficult' or 'challenging' in the past 8-9 years. Something being made easy mode or 'dumbed down' implies it was difficult in the first place.
    Built in reactive mechanics is much deeper and demanding of skills than what is currently required.
  7. ARCHIVED-feldon30 Guest

    Agree with most of that, but the reduced hotbars. I do not want to see another Rift where 3-5 buttons are all you need to win the game. I do think abilities should be more varied and situational. We should feel more heroic and less "beating on the mob until it's dead". We should be able to do crazy things in battle that have a significant impact on the group/raid.
  8. ARCHIVED-ProteinPlus3 Guest

    Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:
    Yes, I also agree with your statements! Nevertheless, I wonder if all of it is achievable within EQ Next. (A solution to the combat-issue is presented on page 20 of the EQ Next Ideas thread.)

    feldon30 wrote:
  9. ARCHIVED-Kenazeer Guest

    They can cut down on the number of individual CAs/Spells but still have it be interactive adn require player skill. All just depends on how the class is designed. For example, compare an effective rotation for Warlock vs Hunter in WoW, which is one of the reasons you see less Warlocks and lots of Hunters.
  10. ARCHIVED-SpineDoc Guest

    They need to get rid of click to combat, it's an incredibly outdated mechanic. If people want to argue for outdated mechanics we should all go back to playing MUDs or text only gameplay. I love the combat in Vindictus for example, real time yet you have plenty of skills, buffs, etc to make combat very strategic. TERA also has awesome combat, but their achilles heel is you get stuck in a combat animation, but at least it's real time and you can attribute "skill" not only to what button you press but if you can correctly time the mob itself to dodge, block, heal, debuff, etc. It's pretty cool and a MUCH different feel actually looking at the mob you are fighting instead of just looking at your hotbars the entire time.
  11. ARCHIVED-Plaguemeister Guest

    SpineDoc wrote:
    I disagree - Tera takes as much "skill" as playing diablo3. Its a point a hold down mouse button then hit a few keys at the right time - essentially no different using current combat arts. So far playing Tera reminds me of playing an arcade game. I have not played Vindictus so cannot comment on that one. The oversized lance really gets annoying too. Block block block combo combo combo stun slam heal self if you take damage hold mouse button down manuever a tad for placing rinse and repeat - not all that impressive really - kinda gimicky. And the extra large weapons ... really - someone have an enzyte issue here? Compensating for much? Kinda like the politics. If something works well its not outdated jsut cuase a new shinier toaster comes around. Tera will fade fast too like AoC, and GW2 will. The EQ games will still be going because for all their current faults (itemization issues topping the list) they are better plays.
    I will agree focusiing more on the mob and what it is doing is better than staring at detriment windows, chat triggers, and CA rotations though. There has to be a better middle ground.
  12. ARCHIVED-Raffir Guest

    Tera combat in the beginning seems all new and shiny. It gets old pretty quickly and I found myself missing the mouse as CA controller instead of the weapon itself.
    I'm fine with tab targeting as long as you can have some movement allowed on your part. GW2 addresses this better, I think, than Tera. But, to be fair....I've played one GW2 Beta and I played all of Tera's Betas (before leaving to come back here). So maybe that opinion will change after awhile.
    But yeah...the oversize weapons of Tera was huge turn off for me, as well as the silly armor configs.Lets hope EQNext keeps things scaled a bit better.
  13. ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

    the problem is that the new generation of MMO players don't WANT complex. they don't want interdependancy, and they don't want to wait longer then 5 minutes to do things.
    tradeskills used to be more complex. you had to make components before making items, and you couldn't make all the components yourself. so you had to barter with other tradeskillers. you make me that leather wrap for my sword hilt, I'll make you these iron studs for your brawler leather breastplate. failing a reaction could kill you...and reactions at least seemed to come probably twice as fast as they do now (the forge for the longest time was the highest killer of players)
    people threw fits and hated it and shouted about it until it became what it is now.

    I'm all for the huge raids. the 40-100 man forces. one, it meant you had to make truly powerful mobs that could have a huge variety of powers. cause you never knew what the players were going to throw at it. two, it meant no one got excluded. you coudl bring multiples of every class if you wanted and it wouldn't make or break anything.
    small group play...I'm on the fence here. there are lots of times I'd love to just be able to duo. something that simply wasn't possible in EQ1 unless you were a tank and a healer. but by the same token, I Don't want the game to become 'solo and duo everything but these 4 places' either.
    tab targetting and click combat work fine for MMO gameplay becuase of latency. I would quit a game faster then anything if I was constantly dying not becuase I can't kill a mob, but becuase I can't defend against it 'real time' due to lag. I'm not a fan of twitch gameplay. if I wanted that I'd play Diablo or a FPS.
    and I find the games with fewer buttons are not difficult at all. becuase they have to limit what a creature can do based on your 5 skills. yes you have 3 attacks, 1 heal, and 1 defensive skill. whcih means if I give mob all of X abilities...you'll never kill it. giving me several different attacks. some with debuffs attached, some with heals, some that stun or interrupt...means that you can also give the mobs more abilities and the skill comes from learnign what they do and picking the right attacks/defensive measures/ at a given time.
    like the drakes in SS that have Ravaging bolt. I have 3 interrupting abilities on different timers. if I get hit with ravaging bolt, that's 20-40% of my mana instantly gone. so I gotta watch for it and make sure I have an ability up to stop it. and drakes LOVE casting that thing.
    I got 5 hotbars. that contains every spell and ability I have ever used. so 50 buttons total. and 1 hotbar is just 'oh crap' type buttons. clarity potion/manastone/damage preventers and the like.
    As to control effects...yeah I would limit them but keep the idea. yes, there are mobs that very well should be able to fear me, or mez me, stun me...throw me around like a ragdoll or root me and the like. but not every other darn mob in a dungeon either.
  14. ARCHIVED-Celline-Layonaire Guest

    Plz let's not say the word 'grind' here. (Just in case..)

    Grind is a thing devs should decrease and diminish, not eliminate. Hell, only god can eliminate grind, how can we possibly make a game with absolutely no grind. It's just a fancy illusion.
  15. ARCHIVED-salty21db Guest

    I'll make it very simple what I don't want to see.
    - Flight paths.
    - Instances.
    - Quests aside from maybe small storyline ones here and there.
    - No death penalty (meaning I want corpse runs or exp loss etc).
    - No mounts until later in the game.
    - One direct path to level (meaning I want a couple zones at each level bracket to level in).
    - Not less than one month to level or even less than a couple months to hit cap playing a decent amount.
  16. ARCHIVED-Caernarvon Guest

    salty21db wrote:
    No quests in a game called EverQuest (Next), surely you jest! Maybe you should be posting this in the NeverQuest forums!
  17. ARCHIVED-Gilasil Guest

    A lot of the things you say you don't like I either don't care about or actually like. I few things I kind of agree with but I don't consider anything you said a deal breaker -- i.e. if EQNext has them my decision to buy wouldn't be affected all that much. I'll be looking much more closely at things like general gameplay, amount of mindless grind, graphics, cool races, and potential for immersion.
    Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:
  18. ARCHIVED-Veltherel Guest

    Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:
    Are you sure you actually like playing these MMORPG things?
  19. ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

    I think his small groups thing was more about everything being able to be done solo with a merc, or with a duo or trio. basically he's wanting old EQ1 back with this. were group content was GROUP content. you needed 5-6 people to do it, or you failed.
  20. ARCHIVED-Radigazt Guest

    What I DON'T want to see are:
    1. Rediculous looking player models/weapons.
    Having Arnold Swarzenagger shoulders and arms on Pewee Herman hips and legs makes it feel very cartoony. Having H~U~G~E weapons like 8 foot long swords or staves that look like you're carrying a lamp post is not fantasy. These things BREAK IMMERSION.
    2. Constant reminders of the real world.
    I'm fine with free to play and a cash shop. But, if someone has a subscription can they please avoid all the constant reminders to buy stuff? From the time I hear the epic music for EverquestNext until I log off, I want to be immersed in PvP gameplay, not feel like I'm going through my spam filter or forgot how to turn off my pop-up-blocker. Please don't break our immersion unneccessarily. An out-of-game-app that lets me shop is great. A Wanderlust Faire icon to buy stuff is great. Heck, even a red carpet with a model wearing the latest fashion from Freeport, Qeynos, Kelethin and Haven would be kinda cool. Have a script of it do a slink down the catwalk and turn around to view the fashion of the week. Brandish the weapon, flap the cloak ... make my chracter want to buy it rather than SALE-SALE-SALE or BUY GOLD or NEVERFORGETYOU"RENOTREALLYINAMAGICALWORLD.
    3. PvE grind to compete in PvP.
    Whether it's superior PvE gear, the constant need to get AA and mandated raids, or the required quests and zone exploration, my biggest gripe with PvP in EQ2 has always been that I am uncompetitive unless I spend WAY too much time grinding stuff I don't want to do, just so I can PvP. Please make everything you need to be competitive in PvP be obtained through PvP. I don't care if it can also be obtained in other ways (such as crafting, PvE, etc.) but let me hop into Norrath and PvP. I'm a PvP'er. I came to PvP, not grind mindlessly. I don't want it to be a shooter game, but I want it to let me spend my time PvP'ing, not time-sinking and grinding for gear/AA.
    4. Piano Playing Hotbars.I realize the developers want to keep developing and growing the characters. That's a noble goal. But, I have 6 full hotbars on my EQ2 toon, and really, I'd like to have 2 hotbars. I would very much prefer to be able to hotkey all of my in-combat spells. I'm fine with my call to Neriak or my summon portal spells being there but not really necessary in-combat. But when it comes time to fight, I want to only have 12-18 usuable spells max. If I want to bring Call of Storms and Starnova to dps, let me, but I'll have to leave behind my Emergency Heals or Death Saves or something. Don't let the availability of spell learning to trump good fun combat. Sure, have the other spells for specialization, but don't force everyone to carry them and then defacto use them all.

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