Eliminate T1/T2 DPS - Just have DPS

This is in regard of the "making T1 great again" balance thing thats coming got me thinking, why do we even have tiers of dps. Who makes a character thinking, I'd like to struggle to keep up, I don't ever want to be as good as others because I'm a T2. I just don't see the logic in it, we should just have dps, tanks, utility and healers.

Easy answer, all classes can dps. Templars for example can throw down some vicious dps. As can bards,chanters,tanks. So based off your theory it might create an even bigger chasm of chaos.

Tiers to dps have always been a barometer of importance on raid formation. Some raids cater to mages opposed to scouts, some to scouts opposed to mages. Some have "utility" classes who are superior to that of the DPS class because the person behind the screen is just better.

2 toons equally geared played by different players will net different results.

The problem has predominantly always been the person hitting the buttons and not the buttons being hit.

Another key example, Groups can be built around t1 - predator/summoner/sorc/BL to maximize their output whereas that same group built around t2 wont render anywhere near the same DPS.

The problem is everyone thinks their DPS class should be #1 regardless of skill, gear, etc.....and some don't consider certain mage/scout classes to be DPS.

I agree.....make all scouts and all mages T1 and let player skill/gear/spell upgrades define the difference.

1. High DPS -> Sorcs/Rogues/Predators/Summoners/BLs.
2. Moderate DPS & Lots of Utility/Debuffs -> Bards, Chanters.
3. Low DPS -> Tanks, Healers.

• Remove pretty much any substantial debuff from any DPS class, add them onto Support classes as utility.
• Then balance DPS purely on DPS potential. Not on "But he can debuff mobs HP by 5% and I can't!".
• Make utility FUN again. Perhaps consider things like combos for debuffs, or debuffs that increase in potential the better you perform while they are active etc.
• Make sure tanks can have enough Threat to deal with the DPS, but not require huge DPS numbers.
• Make healing challenging again, pre-curing, larger HP pools, less one shot hits. Make AoE's avoidable again, but significantly reduce the duration of most aoe avoids.

My question is, at this point in the game, is there any customization of classes anymore? Gear? Stats? Are there multiple viable build paths with good results or does everyone have to build the one same way to be effective?

Hmm
Rogues should go same bracket as bards/chanters imo
Vanilla definition of Tiers DPS
T1 - Sorcs/Predators
T1.5 - Summoners, Rogues
T2 - Bards/Chanters
Which also not "entirely correct" because coercer was T1++ DPS situationally providing right pet etc. etc.

Having rogues/summoners less than sorcs/predators is dumb and outdated now.

They should all just be dps classes, and utility given to utility classes.

The argument over what is considered utility and what is not will never end. The way I try to look at dps tiers relates to the inverse of the class durability/soloability/survivability.

The more heals or wards or mitigation you have the less dps you should have. If you have a pet that can tank or you can charm mobs to do the same your dps suffers. If you are squishy and have no heals then your dps potential should increase.

BL is somewhat of a special case, I feel the flexibility they have in switching stances should be the "op"ness of them. There is no other class that changes as significantly when switching stances.

I agree with Errrorr that moving debatable utility from t1's to support classes would be a good move for all.

Here is how you determine t1 dps.

Build a group around a BL, a Predator, A Summoner, a Sorc.

Now build the same group around a Bard/chanter/Rogue..


The group built around bl/pred/sorc/summoner will greatly outshine the other group. Thus t1 dps.

At this point in the game, everyone supplies utility. Cant argue that fact. Not all classes, no matter how superior the gear, have the ability to output the maximum DPS as others, THUS t1 DPS...

give Coercers good mob to charm again.

How can Templars throw down massive DPS? I have tried to spec mine into all types of DPS AA lines and coming up hella short.

while I am in feral I don't give any utilities really, I can't even transfer hate all I can just burn and hope that friendly mystic save my bacon if I pull to much agro while tank snapping back agro. Heck I don't have any sharable buffs that produce notable DPS (in feral).
Spiritual stance of course completely different beast I can "semi-decent" HOT AoE (via warder and via 4th advantage), I can crappy but consistent power pump with 1st advantage - once I am fueled up I can once in 30s seriously bump up group power and give 1 very powerful AoE heal. I use to have almost ungodly good small ward that I could spam all day long (second advantage) but nowadays its kind of relict of the past
I agree thou that times are changed and Summoners already for a while been T1 DPS and utility of Rogues/Enchanters all but gone . I also think that problem lie not as much in class disbalance but rather in encounters diversity (NONE) But again compare to EQ1 - EQ2 always been this way so there is no really other way but reduce amount of classes down close range DPS and long range DPS - 2 classes will be sufficient rather 9

Last good one was in Bonemire - wisps ... god I LOVED those little buggers

Don't forget you can use Primal Assault for a full power and heal in a pinch just remember you have to follow it with a primal(any one) for the power/heal proc to go off. The downside is it's an emergency use only as the cool down on it is fairly long.

Yeah but again you have to be in spiritual to do so. And given insane amount of Pot we have using 4 advantage as HOT heals decent (not CH like Assault but decent) still BL not suited to deal with spike damage anyway

Ugh, No. Not another 'get the magic mob to do dps for you'. I'd rather my coercer be more effective by pushing buttons, not charming the right pet and watching IT do all the damage.

Traditionally charm was is signature skill of coercer - kind of test of mastery something that distinguish talented coercer from rest of the crowd. I was played necro in EQ1 (emperor of sustained DPS ) but I been always envy about what true masters of enchanter class could do DPS wise. In EQ2 my firstborn was coercer for THAT SOLE REASON - to be a god of situational DPS. And it did work for little while to bad fun did not last - it been nerfed like 3 or so times than was breath reprieve during KoS x-pack. So yeah I LOVE to see charm comeback with all its risks and benefits and yes I love to see charmable raid mob that is NOT brawler type. Possess essence was .... disgraceful profanation of true meaning of coercing

Yes, lets homogenize the classes even more. Oh wait, no thanks.

Rather than giving everyone the potential to do T1 dps, I would rather go back to the days when class roles where sharply defined by their abilities and how they helped the group as a whole, and were each class has strengths and weaknesses.

It used to be that mages and predators hit hard, but died easily. They had some debuffs, but nothing really significant.

My main is a brigand (well, while I was playing), and it used to annoy me to no end when people characterize them as a dps class. They used to be a utility class whose role was disrupt the mob's defensive and offensive capabilities for the entire group, and if played well, could do decent dps. I enjoyed this role, and didn't need to top the parse to have fun (although, starting in AOM, it wasn't uncommon for me to do so).

Now, everyone is getting the same nukes trough tithe and ascension, charms, etc, and the old skills are becoming more and more meaningless.

Hell, during the RoK expansion, you HAD to have crowd control. I'd be surprised if enchanters even keep this skill on their hotbars any more.

I love my brigand. While I did enjoy dabbling on an assassin back during ToT, I have always preferred the playstyle and feel of the brigand class. I know on a short burst fight I can parse up there with the t1 in the guild but over a longer fight my damage drops, but that's ok. Just by the sheer fact that I'm keeping the mob's max health down by 9+% I'm topping the parse every fight, even if it doesn't reflect on ACT. I don't know if I'd enjoy the class as much if I lost my debuffs and became strictly pew-pew. Part of the fun for me is knowing I'm utterly crippling the mob's defenses and making everyone else do more damage, not just me.

When I first came back I was way under resolve for heroics with guild but they could definitely tell a difference when I was in the group, even when I wasn't parsing as high as I could due to low resolve/potency/no ascension. And that is why I enjoy the class.

That said, I did shelve the sin when the reset rune was nerfed, because sin quickly became un-fun. It felt like I was crafting Brews more often than I was actually in combat lol....

Well said Charryna! This is the same reason I chose to play an Illy when I started. My "DPS" per-say doesn't need to be number 1 in ACT for me to know I am topping the parse. Throwing crowd control, feeding power and buffing my grp/raid that added to the overall performance put me on top of other classes that were considered T1 DPS. Simply because back then a group without an enchanter vs. a group with an enchanter, it was very easy to see the difference it made in grp/raid.

Just want to add, I don't only want to be in raid because I add an additional 5 resolve...

Just sayin...