Dungeon Maker Changes Coming Dec. 16

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Windstalker, Dec 11, 2014.

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  1. Deadshades New Member

    ah yeah forgot good old agnostic dungeons nvm my post .:), at least they will have groupage , maybe better time spent on more of them soe :)
  2. Griff Well-Known Member

    Perhaps I'm being overly obvious here but...
    1. They were able to change the experience in the contested zones like Skyshrine and the like to reduce the benefit gained by self mentoring to power level through the content as an alternate means to get to level 100 with no problem at all.
    2. They were able to adjust the experience gain in DM to curtail that experience for the average player doing normal instances without being power leveled.
    3. They were able to restrict the access to the new dungeon system that prevents players above level 89 from entering those dungeons.
    • Why is it exactly that they feel that the current DM system is one that would be too difficult to change in order to avoid the "exploitation" of the DM system?
    • Why is it they feel the need to remove the DM currency and ability to purchase perks that many casual players like myself found very useful?
    • Why is it that they feel people would still visit some of the fantastically created DM setups not designed around power leveling if there are absolutely no rewards at all for doing so? Especially since now they expect us to level entirely by doing the game content OR purchasing 85 levels and 280 AA's in the store!
    The majority of players "exploiting" the DM system were hard core players that had to skip through levels 95-100 in record time. Those are the same players that often have no problem leveling in Heroic content in their hard earned gear with little difficulty.

    The rest of us were not purchasing DM power levels for lack of funds and certainly not doing pick up groups in Raw Sushi. We were using DM to get by some rough levels and gain some much needed gear, much in the same way we use loyalty points to get upgrades that the raider/hardcore population would laugh at.

    Now let me get this straight, they don't like that content that they spent time and effort AND WERE PAID FOR BY US to develop going by the wayside. They have no problem at all seeing the creative content that players made (NOT Raw Sushi) being dumped by the side of the road though. Sure they took money for the DM optional features, sure we took time (some of us) to make nice dungeons for our friends and guild to use, but hey, that turned out to be a useless waste of your time/money, lets move on.

    This is starting to feel much the same as the way we were treated in Vanguard. They announced major changes to improve the game in December. Many people spent real life money in the SC store and invested a great deal of time leveling up our characters in anticipation of life being brought back into the game. Then, a few months later, the patch destroyed the game and they claimed there was no going back, game over, sorry about the loss, move on. They gave a few SC points back and explained that you got to enjoy the stuff you bought in the SC store for a while, no real loss. Came here, now they are starting to change the game mechanics and remove others. Feels oddly familiar.
    Nymphie, Majinnoone, Naiha and 2 others like this.
  3. Gaiusofcamelot2 New Member

    Many people compare the heroic characters to the PL'ing in DM's. Cutting out the xp in DM's was money based just like selling Heroic characters. The stink came up from going 95-100 quickly but when they starting thinking about it, they realized they were also losing Heroic character sales to this. BAM!!! now it has to be fixed because it is costing revenue...
    Majinnoone and Filly67 like this.
  4. Gourdon Well-Known Member

    You can let players decorate the environment. You just can't give them control over mobs or rewards. This means that importing the builds from Landmark makes sense, but giving players the ability to use Storybricks to make quests is a bad, bad idea.
  5. dmartin248 New Member

    I have bought the DM tool. I would please like a refund of the SC that has been spent. I respect that Sony has addressed this issue, and for the most part I am glad it is being addressed, but to make the DM free is not a fair decision to the community of people that has paid for the service. Thank you: Sollaria Freeport Server
    Wirewhisker likes this.
  6. Cheddarella New Member

    I made a couple fun dungeons in the early days of Dungeon Maker. I bought all the different layouts and furniture bundles so I could offer something out of the ordinary. As a matter of fact, the second dungeon I made (Skittles -- Taste the Rainbow) is color-coded, and I made a point of using as many *different* spawners as I had in my toolbox. I ran a lot of other fun dungeons to earn Dungeon Marks in order to buy more boss/elite spawners. I can't tell you how many DMs I spent trying to get the extremely rare Duck (Ranger) spawner. In those early days, I earned Hall of Fame awards for my two published dungeons.

    I had a friend who made a "grind" dungeon to earn more DMs for spawners, and found it more popular than her extremely well-thought out and constructed "creative" dungeons.

    I made a dungeon as a location for a guild roleplaying storyline, and left the monsters active as part of the scenario. Amusingly, enough guildies and friends went through and gave me thumbs up that I earned a Hall of Fame slot for it. Nevertheless, I have several other dungeons set up without monsters, merely as set locations to run more storylines (such as the office for Uneedus Supplies, a Norrathian cross between Office Max and Home Depot). Obviously, *they* won't be affected by the lack of xp in Dungeon Maker locations because there never was going to be any fighting there. The only "storage" dungeon I have is for items that can only be stored in a dungeon: one-time mob spawners. I needed to free bank storage space, and the dungeon has the advantage of letting me see what each spawner looks like before I decide to place it in a dungeon.

    Now, I can't say that I have never had contact with anyone who used DM dungeons as powerleveling locations. My main is an armorer/experimenter, and all the other tradeskills are represented in Clan Laughsoutloud (my family of alts). A while back, I was commissioned to make a complete set of researched and Mastercrafted gear for a level 22 shadowknight, and then experiment on each piece to add the blasting proc to one half, and the healing proc to the other half of the items. The player explained that the procs were cumulative, and that when he was struck by dozens of DM mobs, they'd each get hit for some amazing amount of damage, and he'd get healed more than any damage inflected on him. I was curious about that, and as I had a bruiser who had reached her 20s, I made her a set of leather gear with the same procs. Then I went through one of the "farm" dungeons, and was absolutely amazed at how crowds of mobs just fell at my feet, all the while never dropping below 70% health. Shortly thereafter, the Experimented procs were changed so as not to land such cumulative damage at once, but to spread it out over a certain amount of delay. Some folks cried about the nerf, but as others continued to offer DM powerleveling (using the same type of gear), I figured the xp results were sufficient to make such a path worthwhile.

    EQ was my first exposure to an MMORPG; I came over to EQ2 more for the social/roleplaying/decorating aspects (and to think I used to mock the concept of housing when I only played EQ, which was then without housing of its own). The only regret I have about not being at an appropriate level to start a new expansion when it is actually new is that I usually end up picking up quests and lore information in a haphazard manner. (As a historian, I think you'd say I have a natural interest in lore.) Therefore, I will not mourn the loss of a powerleveling path when experience for dungeons is dropped. Getting rid of Dungeon Marks and their concomitant rewards, however, will remove *any* incentive for players to venture into DM dungeons. All of the creativity player-designers will have put into their dungeon(s) will be wasted. As others have posted above, there are some nice little consumables and bits of gear purchasable with Dungeon Marks; please consider leaving them -- and DM rewards for those adventurers who chose to explore our creative efforts -- in place.

    Majinnoone and Juraiya like this.
  7. Abasinolanam Active Member

    No, I really don't. I think that you are still under the [mis]understanding that being max level is a reward and that gaining experience is something anybody wants. The truth is you could remove experience from the game entirely and it wouldn't change anything about why we come play. This is a hard truth you will have to swallow one day.

    I think all this achieves is kill the DM for good. It's hard enough to get people to come visit your house (only decorators seem to be interested in seeing other decorations) and there is zero reason for anybody but a decorator to do a DM now.

    While I'm not surprised, I'm disappointed.
    Wirewhisker, Juraiya and Boar like this.
  8. Finora Well-Known Member



    I have to agree with this at least partly.

    I never used it for leveling and have never cared one way or another about the xp in them but I am really very disappointed that the marks and items are being removed.

    I always thought the dungeon maker would have been an excellent vehicle to put more fluff in the game since it really is basically a fluff feature at it's core. Making some of the dungeon decor items/mobs available as normal house items through the use of dungeon marks. :(.

    Are the items we could buy with marks completely going away or will they be made available elsewhere?
    Wirewhisker and Griff like this.
  9. Woodland New Member

    Do I get the money I paid for the Dungeon Maker back then???? It seems kind of unfair to the people who paid for the feature, if your taking the feature you should at least reimburse the players who have the feature in SOME way.
    Wirewhisker, ZeroMonster and Boar like this.
  10. Sowy Active Member

    Obviously DM was interfering with their zero-risk instant-level Heroic Character profits.

    I feel bad for those who wasted cash on DM. I'm also sick and tired of how people don't see how ruining DM while keeping Heroic Characters isn't a double standard.
  11. Arieste Well-Known Member

    It is absolutely long overdue and you are doing the right thing.

    However, the feature itself CAN be utilized better in the future and tied into the game. I highly recommend that you check out the game Neverwinter (the mmo) and the way that it incorporates their (widely used) dungeon maker without compromising the main game.

    Perhaps sometime down the line, something along those lines can be done with the EQ2 one.

    For example having a daily DM mission: CHOSEN BY DEVELOPERS that awards the current tier currency and a set amount of XP (but only once per day). This would encourage creative designs and drive traffic to GOOD dungeons, while still giving people a way to earn both XP and Ferrins without being exploitable.
  12. Sithac New Member

    We fully understand that this might annoy some of you that have grown accustomed to having this easy button to push for experience, but that’s not the game we desire to create nor the entertainment experience that a good MMORPG tries to provide.

    how much entertainment experience will we get from buying a heroic character?
    Filly67, Wirewhisker, Juraiya and 2 others like this.
  13. kadon_storm New Member

    All I can say is WOW. Seems like they are throwing the baby out with the bath water. So instead of tweaking a feature of the game many people enjoyed you just delete it instead?

    I would run through DM's because I enjoy going through a dungeon but I don't always have time to gather a group to do so. DM's would allow me to do it on my own. After a run I would maybe get 10% xp maybe 15% with a bonus xp pot. I have a hard time seeing how this is unbalancing. I may have a skewed perspective right now but atm I can only see that this went against the "vision" so it was removed.

    I guess there goes the whole play your way idea
    Wirewhisker and Faelynn like this.
  14. Griff Well-Known Member


    Question: Why do/did people wish to level up faster?
    Answer: To get to the part of the game they enjoy playing more!
    Question: What keeps people playing and investing more time/money into the game?
    Answer: Getting to do more in the game that they enjoy!

    That's why they sell level 85 characters with 280 AA points in the SC Store! Personally, I enjoy playing the game in a more casual manner and did not use the DM to power level, just to gain a few levels and some cool stuff from the DM points awarded. That's just me though, some people really enjoy getting to end game in a hurry to play the game that they enjoy. I see no harm in that at all.

    Many of us make alternates that we gear with our mains and use mercenaries to level at an alarming rate. We figure one character paves the way for our "children" (alternates) to follow a more expeditious path. Some of us also like having a maxed out crafting character and just want their level as an adventurer to be sufficient enough to be a self sufficient crafter.

    There is no "Too Fast" in my opinion since every player can easily slow/stop the rate in which they would like to level up in the game. There is (Yoda voice) "No too fast; only too slow". If they are going to sell Heroic Characters, XP Potions, Vitality Potions and the like, then they can't also be stating that we need to stop and smell the roses along the way and experience all the content the game has to offer.

    I would even point out that each level 100 gives you a 20% boost on the next character you are leveling so obviously they know that raising an army of alternates can be daunting at times. What are the rewards for being a long time player? Lots of potions to speed up leveling and stronger mercenaries to facilitate that faster leveling.

    What it comes down to is that there were ultra fast mechanisms in the game where players did not need to worry about purchasing heroic characters and purchasing potions if they wanted to fast track the game to level 100. That must have been a thorn in the flesh to bean counters. Either they knowingly allowed players to participate in an exploit for a significant amount of time or it effected the bottom line too much.
    Sadee and Filly67 like this.
  15. brokenshieldd Active Member



    I am sorry you miss my point. I don't like Dms at all I have all ways said they need just to remove them from the game.But to some people they are fun and what I was talking about Is all the nerfs that has happen after the xpac went live. It seams they are just taking all the fun out of the game. I find my self over in AOM trying to lvl and its just not fun at all to me. I love TOV it was a way better xpac and was fun to do the quest line and explore and people was helping each other. In AOM you just don't see a lot of folks helping each other. And most groups don't want you if you aren't lvl 100 :(
    Wirewhisker likes this.
  16. Laita Well-Known Member

    I understand what you mean Brokenshield, but I think it's due more to the new mechanics than about how one levels... the reason people don't want sub-100's in groups is because 9x out of 10, they simply don't have the resists to make taking them into a heroic zone worthwhile... it was easy in ToV, his x number of crit chance and you were golden.. here, not so much, perhaps if they lowered mastercrafted gear to level 98.
    brokenshieldd likes this.
  17. Llwellyn Active Member

    No one who has made this argument anywhere in this thread has, well, made an argument. They've just stated it's a cash grab or said a one-liner like this and left it at that. Please elaborate on how and why you believe it to be a double standard, so we can understand your point of view a little better. I really do want to see the other side of this coin - because I'm of the belief that there is not an inconsistency here. Help me see why you think there is.
  18. Laita Well-Known Member

    .. and I'm not anti-PL by any means, I just think people freaking out over absolutely nothing... you can still level from 1 to 100 in a day or two.. I just did it with my defiler (completely non-DM) in three days, and that wasn't even a hardcore grind... all this change will do is actually make people work for it a tiny bit more than normal.. like you don't even need to be at the keyboard, to can afk follow a PLer if that's what you want to do... seriously, the world isn't ending!
    Mizgamer62 likes this.
  19. Zykki New Member

    Seeing as I paid SC for the DM feature, I'm feeling VERY ripped off now. I never used my DMs to PL anything, rather, I used to them to make RP dungeons. *sighs* Looks I better get the lead out if I want the mount before the chance is gone. :(
  20. Wammi New Member



    Heres what you should have done. And i'll tell you for free.

    You should restrict players whom do not have a maxed level character, from using Dungeon maker to exploit the experience gain. At the point they gain the max level for the most recent expansion out, Dungeon maker experience should be made available to that person and all of their characters. That way, you have the new players that are forced to use the content to level, and you have the experienced players that have earned the right to get their characters to the content level they are currently working on. ALSO, you are forcing new players to actually learn their character.

    This, is how you should have done it... I think a majority of players can agree. Also. Refund...


    Happy Hunting, very respectfully

    Wammi
    100 Berserker
    Antonia Bayle"
    Ezoo likes this.
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