Dungeon Maker Changes Coming Dec. 16

So sitting /afk in a DM is fun?

Greetings~

I will make this quick. I paid SC for that feature. I would like a refund, period!

If you ( SOE and now ALL who are in charge of Everquest II ) continue to make poor decisions such as this, you can kiss my money goodbye. I WILL move to another game and game company.

Many recent changes to the game have not made the game better but worse. Sorry but that is the way I feel.

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Honestly i think it was a more of a get rid of free consumables and exp that we also sell in the cash shop kinda of deal.Which was Exactly the reason they took out Goblin games.
Sort of makes me wonder if profits are down and they need to find a way to raise them to keep the game going.

Maybe not, but to most people, its a far better trade off than mindlessly running the same quests, and or going through the same content over and over on alts that we've already done on mains. At least in a dm, you can do something worthwhile, like read a book, watch a movie, etc. And the whole, "You should be at the keyboard playing to get exp" argument is invalid. Until they take heroic characters off the marketplace, no one has the right to say how someone else should get to 85. If dm pling was cheating, then anyone who has purchased a heroic character has cheated as well.

It's not a slight alteration. They made it free for everyone with no notice, when it previously required an AoD entitlement or a direct buy with station cash. They are removing the experience reward and the ability to earn dungeon marks, and then some time in the near future, removing the ability to spend your accumulated marks. They are awarding all of the spawners and decorations that people paid station cash for or spent marks on that could have gone to consumable rewards... for free. What part of what anyone actually paid for is still there? The feature that remains that will be free for everyone is materially different.

If you look in my post history - or go to the RIFT forums and look at my post history - I use the same username there - you'll see I don't throw this kind of thing around casually and am usually arguing against this type of thing. In this circumstance, I feel it's an utterly different situation and frankly setting a really terrible precedent. There's actually multiple ongoing discussions right now over changes made in two hotfixes to RIFT over the past two days that are markedly similar. What constitutes normal changes in the ebb and flow of game design, and what is such a material change to a feature that it would warrant refunds or other compensation? Where do you draw the line? That's exactly what has just come up. I've been posting on that since last night - and then this drops here. The synchronicity of it is uncanny - and it feels utterly weird to be on opposite sides of the argument in one place vs. the other. I don't feel that I'm being logically inconsistent with my positions, though, and I've nearly written a novel both here and there.

Maybe SONY's data is different but when I look around for another game to play the one thing that does not sound fun is jumping into a game 10 years old and having to level for months on end in content 95 percent of the playerbase is not participating in.

Can you guys start advertising the new changes on the main website?

"Come play EQ2 our way and spend hours of mind numbing fun collecting berries and killing crabs!"

You are going to have to significantly boost exp in all levels levels of the game.

With all that said its obvious this is just another money grab along with the countless others recently. Grandmasters, Removal or research reductions list goes on and on..

One of the reasons why there is no one running any low level content is because they are all thumping away at stacks of mobs in DMs. Once you eliminate that and they are mixed back into the regular content stream - low level groups might actually become something more than a phantom that we all chase. Additionally, they added level agnostic versions of several dungeons, and these are a good to great source of XP. I expect if these become popular, they will continue to add more content to that feature. You will be able to run the content that you like in order to level - because it doesn't matter what level you are in order to do it. If you don't like questing, you will still have choices.

This is a thing that happens in SWTOR also - people start a new character, get just high enough to be able to run a particular instance, and then skip the entire class storyline and all of the intermediate content. They stay in that single flashpoint (Kuat Drive Yards) the entire ~45 levels - and then complain there isn't enough group content and that leveling up is boring. They intentionally chose to make it boring by ignoring 85% of the rest of the game.

I realize there are some things that they will need to do to improve the flow of leveling - but I expect that they will do them. If they don't, I will be immensely disappointed. I am holding on to the illusion that this is not a cash grab (I really hate that expression) and that removing the consumables obtained via marks isn't just a ploy to get those people to buy them with station cash instead (they are available that way, at least some types).

It's going to take time for this all to shake out - but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment. I have a yearly All-Access membership as it is - the only thing that will happen for the short term is any loss of additional station cash purchases by me once my current stash is depleted. I spent a good bit on the Cyber Monday sale because I support SOE in general - and I play multiple SOE titles - but I don't want to see them drive away their player base by turning this into a really pretty version of Wartune (buy, buy, buy, buy some more - and maybe you got stronger and progressed a little - but the other guy spent more, so no - you really didn't). Even if I cancelled my subscription in protest - I'm paid up for like six more months or something.

I will just keep an eye on things and see where they go, while I work on my characters the same way I always have - slowly and surely. The improvements to tradeskills will help a lot, so I can focus on that for a while - especially since Frostfell is here!

Yes serious. Exactly no one is entitled to a refund. Period.

To try and provide "constructive" and "positive" feedback. This makes no sense at all. Period. Some players found that Dungeon Maker could be used to bypass adventuring? Isn't dungeon maker a type of adventure? Honestly my last 5 characters I have PL'd either through the help of friends or my secondary FREE account. I auto-follow and in 2 hours went from 10 to 49. I didn't die at all, I didn't cast a single ability, I didn't even look at the characters abilities.

You know what the kicker was? I didn't use DM at all because it is bad for leveling. I went FG -> Runnyeye -> CT. I couldn't possibly do that in DM since it caps at 1.99% levels. I would have to guess at when to exit and re-enter. There is no risk in my system AND I get gear for my toon. So what exactly is so bad about DM compared to this "approved" method. Is the next answer going to be no more mentoring?

As for players "not taking advantage" they are making a choice. I for example chose not to use DM to go 95 to 100. Did I later regret it after finding the quest line was terrible and didn't give enough xp, solo zones gave little to nothing, and the contested required much better gear than provided by the quests? Yeah, I did. I didn't however blame people that used DM. Not their fault the exp provided by the expansion is terrible.

Really my biggest issue with this though is how it forces people to do mindless grinding because there is no other good alternative for Solo/duo players. As stated I've done several new characters in the last few months (altoholic I know) DM is almost REQUIRED for 85-90. This level range is absolutely terrible for options, if I don't use DM. I mentor and go to Seb/Palace of the awakened for hours of (non-challenging) grinding. I don't experience any more of the game by doing this than I would using DM. It's a zone I've been in too many times to count. Then when I hit 90 I use DM to AA to 280, now I guess I just go mentor more old zones to grind the AA.It will be slow, boring, and tedious everything a game should not be.

Your not actually going to force people to be challenged with this change, your just going to make the whole process slower and more annoying/frustrating. Which at some point means people stop, we don't play a GAME to be annoyed, frustrated, or to WORK at grinding out levels. We want fun, which for many of us doesn't start until 100. A certain level of effort to reach that is acceptable, but your about to cross the line to unacceptable. Please re-consider this huge oversight.

I would also ask, if you are going to remove DM are you going to start putting in new content for lower levels? That way those of us that have been playing for 10+ years don't have to go through the same old boring stuff? Will you fill the need for good xp 85 to 95 for solo/duo players?

Edit - Add by the way Mercenaries completely trivialized all content 1-90 so you should go ahead and remove mercs if you want people to be challenged leveling up.

They did. Level agnostic dungeons via the dungeon finder. Pick the dungeon you like - play it at any level from 20 - 89. It's even eventually going to be cross-server (if it isn't already), so trying to find a group isn't even an issue with them. Just queue and go. Then, when you max out at 89 and have your AA's for 90 - use the regular methods. That's the only case where it could really use some freshening up. Skyshrine is one thing, but that's also a grindfest and isn't for everyone. The other alternative is COE content and Velious content - and not everyone is a very big fan of COE, especially not repeatedly. Doing some QOL and sprucing up in those areas would go a long way towards making that stretch much nicer for natural 80 - 95 characters.

That's exactly the point we are trying to make. It is precedent setting, as well, because I cannot think of any other game that has actually made such a material change to directly paid-for content or cancelled paid-for content like this and not had a customer service firestorm that killed the game. If it kills EQ2, we're all worse off. If it doesn't kill EQ2, the entire gaming industry wins, and every player everywhere loses - because now everyone else knows they can pull it off and come out intact with cash in hand.

You are right it was a little aggressive and rightly so. The dismantling of content some folks like is a little reminiscent of NGE and it does rub me the wrong way. I dont really have nice words to express what I want to say.

As a new player of EQ2 of four months, I had recently bought DM to help my characters stay at the same level as their quests (because of Alternate Advancement). I was not power-leveling as my character is only level 28. I feel that I was sold something that is basically worthless to me...I have very few things of my own to put in my house much less a dungeon. I would like to get a refund of some sort. Pro-rate it if you must, but it is the only fair thing to do.

Not going to happen. You can not force people into a play style.

This is why you can NEVER let player create or effect content - they will always exploit and look for the easy path. This ruins games (just look at Archeage- what a disaster)

I hope EQN learns from this, player created content never works.

+1 for "sure, remove the XP, but please don't remove the Dungeon Marks" crowd.

It really is unfortunate that I am now being labeled an exploiter for using the content as I like. I really dont see how I can spin that into some nice words for "constructive" feedback.

There is ten years worth of content there. If you cannot find a way to level your character and do it without being repetetive... I don't know what to tell you other than it seems like you are arguing for the sake of it.

There are five starting cities with multiple branching questlines into divergent zones. There are now only two out of 24 classes (IIRC) that are still exclusively either good or evil. You should be able to start at least five characters and not repeat a bloody thing until you get to level 50 and have to do Kingdom of Sky or Maj'dul content - where the divergence ends. Even then, I think there are alternatives. You really are only limited for sure once you get to TSO and beyond. There's not a whole lot of variation available there - but that's why we have multiple characters in the first place, right? Break it up a bit and spread it around so that you aren't grinding them back to back or parallel to each other.

That's also where the level agnostic dungeons come in, and where they hopefully make some more adjustments to the XP curve once the DM XP is eliminated. Giving the bonus XP to adventure writs too might be one choice, since until you get to COE there's level-appropriate writs in every area. That might be too much, too fast though, so it will have to be done carefully.

You posted how you felt without making insults - I hope they let this post stay. I'm not a moderator, though. Eventually I hope you can elaborate some more in another post.

oh no , now the older tier dungeons will be overcrowded again, good luck powering your 20th + toon, you know your brand new toon made for the new race, as dungeons like sos will now be empty of mobs once more, silly soe DM could of just been nerfed to give xp up to lvl 85 .... to match the heroic toon part of the game. but soe really do think about the solo merc style of the game or even groups wanting to go into sos etc , it will be crowded now dm feature is being removed effectively. Would be just as easy to stop its xp at level 85 to stop the overcrowding of other dungeons from the players that , simply want quick levels and are not interested in the loot or the content to that point , or is it so soe just sells more heroic tokens ?