Dungeon Maker Changes Coming Dec. 16

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Windstalker, Dec 11, 2014.

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  1. Peace Member

    I am still angry, expecially with the disprespect the management has shown towards us by this action, and ignoring of our desires. Not bothering to do a fix and ruining a key FUN aspect to the game that had been part of it for three years.
    I thought you guys were listening to your player base as you said you were. This sledgehammer approach isn't even reasonable.
    I will not be bothering to buy any more expansions , 85 levels, etc, from the station cash any more, will not be renewing two of my three subscrittions and the only SC items I will buy now will be the player designed housing items.
    I left eq1 due to continuous and often senseless nerfs, Came back to play eq2 after taking a two year break.
    I do not enjoy a game when its managers think its ok to break major functions of a game that have been around and enjoyed for years. and I am especially annoyed about it when they had said 'play it your way" and
    we have different ways of climbing up in the game (yes they said that a while back) , and that they were LISTENING to us.

    With all this input they still ignored our wishes.
    Vet player since Kunark.

    P.S. Wouldn't it have been better to "fix' the dungeons, reduce the experience and the marks rather than remove them entirely and mess with the feature, and avoid messing folks dungeons up?
  2. Nuttypeanutt New Member

    I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, but they don't seem to care about our feedback in any regard about this issue, but alas I'm going to vent anyway. I skimmed through all 26 pages (at the time of this post) and looked to see what the staff had to say in response to everyone's questions and concerns, and I was surprised to find that they didn't even respond to ANYONES post until page 13...almost at the very bottom (2nd to last post) which had nothing to do with anything except to say please don't bash the staff...more-or-less. From that point on they didn't respond about anything else until about page 23, I think, it was when people lost dungeons, and items in them, but still as of yet to see anything constructive about any of the concepts anyone here has mentioned. Nothing about refunds to people that have paid for effect objects, maps, DM in general, etc...I have spent a lot of money of these items. I have purchased ALL the effect objects, over 100 spawners (mainly with SC before dungeon marks) among other things to add to the effects and enjoyment of making and playing dungeons that I've created. Now your giving everything away for free which really angers me. I have spent at LEAST $100 on buying SC specifically for Dungeon Maker (spread over several accounts) which is all for naught. Not only that, but even if I take the time to make more dungeons (which is very time consuming to make a good dungeon) now no one will play them, because having fun in someone else's creation just isn't good enough for people. They need some kind of reward for taking their time to go through the dungeon, not just sight-seeing, and killing for free. Taking away XP, fine, I get it...taking away Marks? Dumb. People need incentive to do anything these days. You should add more Dungeon Mark rewards and more variety in the Mystery Boxes (maybe even a chance at like 5-10 SC in a box?). Otherwise, just abolish the Dungeon Maker entirely and save us the hassle and frustrations. On a side note, this did fuel my desire to be creative in Landmark upon it's Alpha release, and I have been playing it off and on since Alpha launch, but with the way you've bungled the Dungeon Maker situation here it makes me less inspired to make things on Landmark. If you can't listen to the people here, then what makes me think you listen to the people playing your other games? I know you read everything...but that doesn't mean you listen.
    Melodica, Feldon, Zarik and 1 other person like this.
  3. Jexi Well-Known Member

    LOL It looks like my layouts were actually Mistmoore 5. Talk about a bad memory I have. Thanks for putting them all back for us. YAY
    Goreganis likes this.
  4. Goreganis Member

    OK, I guess its time to put this out there to see how everyone else's views very from my own. I am one of those players that ran DM to get to 100, and it only took me 3 days. I however did not PL (no one of higher lvl ran me through), I soloed the dungeons I ran, and oh i almost forgot i did use exp potions i BOUGHT FROM SOE. After reaching 100 I began running AoM advanced solos, and over land quests to start working on my armor. The next day you could find me in Darklight Woods working on my transmuting, last night I was in The Tomb of Thuuga, adventuring for a rare merc drop. To make a long sorry short not all of us see max lvl as the end game. I am an adventurer, and take the game as its named, "EVERQUEST" not reach max lvl time to log a new toon, or not log again till the next exp. I also payed for the AoM CE, but due to me lvling the way I did this makes me wrong? I think not.
    Filly67 and Pipsissiwa like this.
  5. Goreganis Member

    .....I also forgot to add, even when I started AoM overland, and advanced solo's at lvl 100, I was still getting my soul crushed regularly due to the out of control difficulty. So apparently being max lvl wasn't such a big deal anyway regardless of when or how I got there.
    Filly67 and Pipsissiwa like this.
  6. Klakla New Member

    I asked that same question after I purchased the adventure bundle that included the dungeon maker.

    I understand not crediting the entire thing. I also understand the policy on refunds because you don't want people going, hey, give me my money back, I didn't like it/didn't really buy it/hey you changed what it does 5 years after I bought it/fill in your own reason. Yet, this still does not explain the lack of a policy when the value is reduced to zero by the company in such a short window after purchase. I looked!

    Here is the unfortunate exchange where the in-game GMs seem to understand the issue and want to help solve it, but the out of game CSRs are more interested in standing on a policy that doesn't apply very well.

    After returning from a long hiatus and deciding to re-subscribe, I'm thoroughly disappointed. Not a good plan to keep someone as a returning player.

  7. Nantoh Member

    OMG,all buffs are cancelled.
    You need to recast all buffs (item triggered buffs like harvesting bonus and so on other than general spells).
  8. Azari.Lite New Member


    Buy a Heroic 85 Char with SC
    Buy 320 AAs Leveling with SC
    Buy 280 AAs Leveling with SC
    Sales on SC
    Doubble XP Weekends
    Buy with SC or earn XP Bonus Potions
    Mentor down to PL in Lower Level Dungeons
    Buy with SC Debt Forgiveness Wands
    Pay a player to be PLed
    Leveling AAs in DM
    Leveling XP in DM
    Leveling AAs in SS (or some other dungeon)
    Leveling XP in SS (or some other dungeon)

    All of these by-pass content
    Even Normal leveling by-passes some content

    Pay to win is where you pay out cash money or SC to get something better then some one else so you can be the best at what you do or get ahead in the game. Some of us players have a distaste for Pay to Win. Other players like it.

    An Exploit I am told, is where you are doing something that the game designers had not intended to be possible to do, to get ahead in the game. Fast leveling XP in DM was not an intended outcome of Dungeon Maker so is being considered an Exploit as is PLing other players and plat farming and such.

    I personally feel like an Exploiter when I buy SC on sale to use to buy things on the market place to get ahead in the game because I am against the Pay to Win thing. So I see no difference in the items listed above except for who's pocket the money goes in to. So if we really want Dungeon Maker back in all it's glory then to make it NOT an Exploit we need to pay SC to get our XP and tokens from DM. I don't Believe in Exploiting or Paying to Win nor do I like NERFs. But that is just me. I believe everyone should have fun making their mark in the game and do it their way.

    I do things differently because I like the challenge. I have baby tunes that are Max level Crafters because it is a challenge to go in to a High level or Max level zone with a level 20 Adventurer Max level Crafter and try to do the quests.

    I do believe that some of the level 100 players just wanted to be the first to experience the new content. Bragging rights as it were. Everyone wants to make their mark and have something to brag about. So really I think those that were first have already done what they set out to do. So to go NERFing the Dungeon Maker at this point is kind of redundant.

    If a person by-passes content, they have no gripe. They need to go mentor down and have fun.

    What happened to Play it your way?
  9. Elite Active Member

    I keep hearing the 'Play Your Way' being thrown around, and i'm fairly certain it is being misinterpreted. The original phrase was 'Free to play, your way'.
  10. Shmogre Well-Known Member

    To be fair, none of the things listed are true "pay to win"...there is little offered that can not be gained in-game with a little time or effort [if you have to label it, I'd call it "Pay to Speed Up"]. And with the exception of mercenaries and reforging, there is very little in the Marketplace that is *required* to play [and mercenaries are more of a convenience factor, to allow people to play when groups aren't an option for whatever reason], and if you subscribe, you get free monthly StationCash that you can use towards those items. They are convenience factors, nothing more [unlike many games that offer real-money items that can not be obtained in-game in any way].

    [And Elite is right: the motto "Play your way" was first used when Free-to-play was introduced, and it was "Free to play, your way"...meaning you could play much of the game for free, pay with Krono [which could also be obtained using in-game currency], pay for a single month, or subscribe for an amount of time. I'm guessing SOE are ruing choosing that specific slogan by now... ;^) ]
    Mizgamer62 likes this.
  11. Feldon Well-Known Member

    No. Pay to Win is where you pay money/SC to buy something more powerful than can be acquired through normal gameplay. For instance if raid gear or uniquely powerful items/mounts were on the Marketplace. For a short time, there was a cure potion that cured all four types of detriments up to 500 levels. This was removed after player feedback was largely negative. That's probably the closest we've gotten to "pay to win".
  12. Livejazz Well-Known Member

    I tend to think of these three things as being close to "pay to win." I would not be upset if all three were removed from the marketplace. I will admit to buying one of the 280AA potions for my Swashy, tho.

    Um .... no. You still have to do the content to get there, to an extent at least, even if you buy a Heroic 85, because you still have to level to 90 to do Skyshrine. Beyond that, it's obvious that Skyshrine grinding has nothing whatever to do with "pay to win," because you don't have to spend Station Cash to do it, you only need access to DoV & to be the appropriate level to do SS. This is true of all the other non-DM dungeons, as well.

    This has always been the case, & will always be the case in any MMO currently available, & probably for quite some time to come. Simply put, the bigger the game world, the more content most players will by-pass on their way up the level ladder. I don't think there's much, if anything, that can be done about it; look, even in EQ1, it was impossibly easy to "bypass content" simply because by the time you got to that part of the game world you'd already out-leveled the content. I know there were quite a few places in EQ1 that didn't draw a lot of traffic, because there were other options at that level range that players preferred -- Dalnor's Crypt, for example, on my server was almost always a ghost town from the time it was first implemented. I rarely ever saw people in Velketor's Labyrinth, ever, because at the time the dungeon was quite tough for its level range. In short, "content bypass" is almost unavoidable.

    ... was an issue, so far as I can tell, because of the "stacking" feature that allowed mass numbers of mobs to be stacked in one place & all AOE'd down quickly. I think that if that feature had been got rid of or at least significantly limited, DM would not have become the issue it did. But, for whatever reason, SOE commonly manages to "fix" one issue by breaking another, & that's exactly the case with Dungeon Maker.

    Dungeon Maker, quite frankly, probably wasn't the best of ideas in the first place. I think a good case can be made that it never should have been made, or at least that players should not have gotten XP rewards from doing them. But SOE failed on both those notes, so we now have what we have.
  13. Finora Well-Known Member

    Is there any word on this? I ask because I had bought some SC (4000) specifically to buy the bundle back around the time dungeon maker changes were made. Personally I'd be willing to pay the same price for the new bundle. But I am absolutely not willing to blow 60+ dollars on something all my main accounts bought for $60 for that also included all the collector's edition stuff.
  14. Griffon Lady Well-Known Member

    I'm not even sure if they have enough staff left to worry about feedback. :\
    I bought every thing there was to offer for the Dungeon maker too, but I'm not going to try asking for a refund. It would have been nice if they'd done some sort of make-good deal for people who had purchased all the DM goodies, but I'd rather see them make DMs worth running again. /..\ But I guess there's about as much hope for that as there is for the Pet arena bug being fixed (or the house items from the merchant requiring kills/wins ever being made available at all.... I've only been waiting since 2006....and watched them fix things like illusionist pet's hair, the feral illusion not matching normal appearance for freebloods, etc... XD)
    I dunno.. maybe I'm just used to the frustration nowadays? :( I love the game (well... I hoard furniture mostly and occasionally have time to decorate, technically)... the company just makes me wonder .. a lot... (but I LOve love LOVE the art department/animation peeps!!!):) And the programmers that make the game work, of course. >.> and the writers! And you know, every one that makes Norrath happen. lol
    And it's tough making the corporate dreams of more money for less work/staff happen. :\ XD I wonder... if I found out how to buy some SOE stock, would they actually give me information?
    Griff and Uwkete-of-Crushbone like this.
  15. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    If our Dungeon Marks aren't going to be given out any more (TAKE THE XP!! LEAVE US OUR MARKS!!!), could you at least give us a sale on the items we can purchase with 'em, please? :-/

    who wants Dungeon Marks re-instated, or the "bug" not "fixed"...otherwise, why would anyone make dungeons, if there's no reward at all?
  16. Kittybock Well-Known Member

    Agreed. I've heard Play Your Way tossed around a lot. There are so very many things to do in EQ2, ways to level, wander the world, quest/ not quest, grind mobs, harvest, craft.... That is Play Your Way.

    IMHO, "Play Your Way" does not imply that we, the gamers, get to tell a business entity what to do...even though they are pretty cool about monitoring feedback. ;)

    To the topic, I don't think it was to sell Heroics, those will either sell or not. I'd thought the real problem behind DM wasn't just the PL's that went on, but unattended leveling? That's generally frowned on in any MMO.

    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  17. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Yeah, amen; I don't think it was intended to be a power leveling tool, and if they brought back our Dungeon Marks, I'd be happy as a clam to do without the XP. ;->

    who's leery about EQ3; if all the critters out there in that game are run like the shadowy whatevers for the Channeler 1st-level quest (and why do the rest of us have to put up with them if we're not Channelers? Shouldn't they only show up for Channelers?) and the patchwork critters for Bristlebane's, i.e., you can't use stealth, spells, or ranged weapons on them while soloing ("Not an enemy. Come closer so it can rip your face off first."), then forcing me to group won't be "playing my way"...and consequently, I won't be playing it. :-/
    Raeven, Adaarye and Kittybock like this.
  18. Eldriod New Member

    100% agree. Forget about xp in Dungeon Maker, bring back the marks though. Put some new cosmetics and consumables on the market, make the best stuff member only, and everybody wins. A game feature gets to actually be used again and there is an incentive to have a paid subscription.
  19. Adaarye Member

    I agree. Why take the marks out? What is leaving those in going to hurt?
  20. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    It might be something technically complicated, for all we know...like why they had to destroy the suburbs in Qeynos and Freeport in order to not have to zone every time we needed to get to another section of the city that shouldn't've been zoning-filled in the first place. :(

    who kind of hopes that was the case (otherwise, why remove options from us that people liked?), but even more, hopes for the return of the 'burbs in some form, even as Prestige Housing (psst! Daybreak! You can make more money that way! :D)...
    s7n7a7k7e and Griffon Lady like this.
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