Dumb fire Pets / non Scout pets still broken...?

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Deezknives, May 24, 2016.

  1. Gigglezzz Member

    So let me get this right, you got beat on the parse by someone on a class and that means that DBG needs to nerf the whole class? I understand swarm pets were op'd, BUT the logic some of you have with this elitist attitude is just astounding. So that means that every time a beastlord, wizard or warlock were tearing me a new one a few months ago, then I should of been on this forums hollering bloody murder and asking for nerfs? Its crazy talk. Someone beat you on the parse, get over yourself.
  2. Jrel Well-Known Member

    I was replying to Arieva actually. Just stating what I've seen; that is there are Conjys out there that can kick my *** still no matter how much I can do in a heroic. No vitriol or emo or angst against other classes implied in my post. I'm being outparsed by Illies in my raid, but I haven't been "screaming" for their class cloak to be nerfed either. I do think no one class should dominate others consistently unless that is DBG's intent. The Devs might be showing us, by way of ignoring how 800+ potency items are boosting certain classes because of prestige AA conversions, this is how they want tiering of DPS classes to go.
  3. Twisty Well-Known Member

    In whichever grade they taught percent, you need to silently slip into a desk in the back of the room and pull out a pencil
  4. Beee Well-Known Member

    And I know at least some assasins that will beat you too ;)

    If somebody invests a lot of time and ressources in toon (eg for getting keys / infusers / ethernal coins), he will get a lot of output (dps / hps / FUN)

    And wht's important too: Comparing a gearlevel is not usefull and even in the same class almost impossible. A small thing (eg using ethernal runes instead of ethernal weapons or using Enraged Will or Heartbound makes a huge difference)
    Veta and Yards like this.
  5. Arieva Well-Known Member

    That would be because short of the hammer reset, ethereal reset and all ethereal runes are basically garbage for the conjuror class. Most that do their homework don't even try for them.

    I graduated Summa CumLaude from college..did you!?! No didn't think so.
  6. Twisty Well-Known Member

    unfortunately for your weak attempt at biting back, I did, although orthogonal to the subject. admittedly the odds of being right were in your favor

    you should stop while behind tho, i just got off the horn with Trump University PR dept, they're none too happy with how you make your alma mater look

    >> Assuming that they decreased the effectiveness of x stat per little pet, 12 of those little buggers out at once, every 30 seconds is still a lot of pew pew. in comparison each conji swarm has a max of 3 entities
  7. Easiette Member

    I did not mean that the measuring pole should be a 20th ranked guild, but neither should it be your guild.

    No offence intended but after seeing the gear/stats choices of one of your T1 scouts it only confirms my suspicion (when i saw the parses posted by yards in beginning of ToT) that not everyone in your guild is on par with some of your mages/summoners, hence a bad measuring pole. Sticking to auto attack damage, not min maxing gear with infusers, they're simply not trying as hard.

    I initially came here to post because of the way some are trying to demonstrate the problem, like the original poster clearly comparing a short fight with normal criticals vs fabled criticals from one of our most powerful ability (awaken grave) showing a 500m increase on top of their 300m parse.
    Using wording like "completely broken" "sick OP" etc, simply not the way, "liking" each others troll posts, not the way.
    If you would have said our dumbfires are double dipping (which was very likely after they made them behave like player entities) then i would have just remained an observer as usual.

    Like what Veta already posted, with the stat inflation + pre clickies there is no way to nerf our dumbfires enough to avoid the huge burst dps without hurting us severely on the long run (the meaningful fights)
    Yes we are an easy to parse class, we don't need large chains affected by lag, we don't need stacks or increments etc. Not our fault, not our dumbfire's fault, actually...not my problem.

    You sorta got what you wanted, and i'm glad on how its been handled by the dev's, double dipping is a definite no-go..
    Now if you want even more balance, have them "fix" the lag and the way your own classes perform with the current (ridiculous) stat inflation/pre-click mechanics.

    Attack away...
  8. Yards Well-Known Member

    The difference is veta will be the first to admit that dumbfires are overtuned, where as other summoners will say summoners are where they should be and I'm only parsing like this because I'm good. Yes the 20 to 30 second parses don't mean anything to me as they are inflated and not relevant (plus I tend to look at outgoing damage in act before I make assumptions). However on long fights summoners are still beastly with their dumbfires doing pretty awesome dps. Just admit that dumbfires are doing more than they should be and let's move on.
    Yoube and Neiloch like this.
  9. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    People think you are white knighting because YOU think everyone is just talking about 1 minute or less burn fights and pointing out isolated incidents where other classes beat a summoner under unique circumstances. You aren't saying summoners are fine but you are also trying to mention as many scenarios as possible where they got beat/matched AS IF they were fine. Saying they were broken in a previous post doesn't give some sort of immunity to make posts seemingly defending their performance.

    You even got people from the 'summoners are fine' camp agreeing with you and citing YOUR posts as anecdotal evidence that summoners don't need further adjustments. You may not INTEND to defend the current state of summoners but that's the IMPACT of your current line of posts.

    "well if other classes use all the extra stuff and temps on a short fight they can burst parse that high too." Okay, and? So? What? No one cares except for those that don't know what they are talking about in which case who cares what they have to say.

    There was one but anyone with an 'abnormally impressive' parse only posted severely cropped information, requests for better information were quickly sidestepped. Further evidence there are 'tricks' to parsing super high on short fights for just about any DPS class but they also want to defend and/or gloat about them without disclosing specifics which is just never gonna wash with the general population.

    Unfortunately the only fights that are decently long without having some sort of mechanic tripping things up significantly are Sanctifier, WoW and MAYBE psionicists. Which means most of peoples experience of 'DPS balance' consists generally irrelevant fights therefore most grievances are dismissed as irrelevant. This doesn't change the fact on those relevant fights summoners are still outperforming others by an unacceptable margin, as you said.
  10. Kaarkula Active Member

    This should be about done with by now.. time to move on.
  11. quisling Well-Known Member

    I don't think I'm ever going to understand dps calls for nerfs. DPS is not a zero sum game. Folks you want parity, don't ask for nerfs, ask for reasonable improvements to YOUR class. I like the parser simply because, well, hell I read logs for a living, but there are times when I hate that damned thing. It makes normally reasonable people into frothing irrational psychos.
    Kraeref, Kaarkula and Yoube like this.
  12. Yards Well-Known Member

    The problem with this is we don't need dps to be raised we need it to be lowered across the board.
    Neiloch and Livejazz like this.
  13. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    I read all of this and I agree that 30 second sample sizes are very poor representatives of actual class strength.

    Except it worked for a lot of people in this same thread when rage posting about my 30 second parses in AoM.

    What is good for the Sorc is good for the Summoner.

    Nerf them. Nerf them all. Nerf them where they sleep, nerf them where they eat.
    Neiloch and Livejazz like this.
  14. Ashandra Well-Known Member

    I am just seeing the same 4 people getting stuck into who ever posts any thing here give it a break people are getting sick of it .
  15. Ashandra Well-Known Member

    lets just uncap cb so can build stacks click temps sit on 20k to 30k plus pot god knows what cb and ..... oh the mobs dead burnt through any strat , yay fun. Gee duno why the devs stopped that one.
  16. Arieva Well-Known Member

    Sorry professor dipwad, didn't know I was going for a grade here. Nor do I care about your opinion on the matter. Moving on.
  17. Arieva Well-Known Member

    For *your* guild. Don't speak about most people when many take quite some time on the fights you consider irrelevant. As someone pointed out summoners are relatively easy to parse on. Before pets were fixed I was already outparsing 90% of my guilds other T1's. That doesn't mean the mechanic didn't need fixing. I'd rather see aa's adjusted so scouts aren't struggling. Etc. And of course an xpac release that doesn't make itself obsolete and "irrelevant" before the year mark is up.

    I see only one way to decide this...we gotta get Vynie a hammer and get him in a raid with Veta on these significant fights you speak of. If the gap is still so big I think we'll agree some adjustment is still needed.
  18. Enigma Active Member

    As "if" Veta is the best summoner :) The problem is aura of immolation that creates gaps!
  19. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Thanks for supporting my position further? Also I consider fights irrelevant for parsing when they have inherent mechanics that require the raid or specific members to slow,or stop DPS frequently. Several fights we couldn't just burn through quickly would become stop/go fights (as a lot of them were at release).

    Unfortunately I don't see much in the way of fixes coming until the xpac itself. The devs really like to save the majority of balance tweaks for once a year for some reason. Seems like they would WANT to roll out tweaks between content pushes rather than WITH them to prevent compounding problems/solutions.
    Nah we don't want to inflate the gap, that doesn't help anybody. We already have some of the best DPS WW with lots of toys still getting beat by summoners by quite a bit on longer fights.
  20. sycla Active Member

    wow .. you are really one of those ACT maniacs who think your parse is what matters more than what the guild is doing..seriously hope you are not guild leader.
    quit haunting this thread and find some other class to nerf.
    stop obsessing about irrelevant things like you personal dps and think more about what the raid is doing as a whole..there will always be one class kicking your *** on the parse..and that changes every few months