Druids or Shamans/Templars for groups?

Discussion in 'Priests' started by questcraft, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. questcraft Member

    In regards to Wardens/Fury's I recall there being problems with druids being able to keep groups alive especially in cases where pulls went bad or mobs switched targets and big hits came in. Where-as Wards and Re-actives would just absorb the hits and smooth out the spike *oh @#%" moment.

    How are Druids these days for healing groups? is this still a problem or how are druids working through these situations?
  2. Melkior Well-Known Member

    Druids can solo heal without any issues these days.
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  3. Raff Well-Known Member

    Almost any well geared druid or shaman can solo heal. Shaman got nerfed some time back and now have to deal with bleed through on wards. It is irritating, but not a class killer if you know what you are doing.

    Except...channelers maybe. Haven't seen one yet that can solo heal T2's. But my experience is limited on the class.
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  4. Daalilama Well-Known Member

    Templar has become the only hybrid healer for this game with hots/reactives/and wards.
  5. Vunder Well-Known Member



    Nobody can outheal a channeler that is played correctly. Some of note from last xpac (Many got frustrated with nerf) would be: Aliehn of Vigilance, Ikug of Doom on IoR (dude/dudet is amazing, helpful, but doesn't play much anymore), Frackin of Keepers of the Oak on Maj Dul(really good, but egotistical), Chanel of The Covenant on Maj Dul (really good and friendly =D), and Ellundra of Doom on IoR.

    I love the class and have visited with many of these guys to perfect playing one. Sadly, I am more often than not, asked to play my defiler for raids so i don't have a huge raid experience with mine, but i will heal groups the best I can. Of those I know Ikug, Frackin, and Chanel are raid channelers if you have questions. Frackin was extremely irate over the pet nerf and I have not seen him in game since the patch...he may have quit.

    Those are my go to people if you want to learn more about that class. I dont play on the other servers, i am sure there are others just as good as them.
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  6. Treiko Active Member

    I love that I was mentioned, even though I know it's only cuz you named literally every channeler in the game haha. But seriously, it is correct that channelers can heal like a mofo. I recently changed my spec a tad and am healing more than ever, while still doing good damage (well, good for only having 140k potency). There are still improvements the class needs, but I finally feel like we are heading in the right direction.

    To the OP I will say wardens as far as I know are in a good spot right now/still. I have not grouped with one yet, as the only heroic group I have been in I was actually the only healer on my channeler, which is amazing for being so early in the expac when 2 healers are almost always used. The group was lacking, but it was not due to heals, that's for sure. I had no problem - granted we only ran maiden's eye. I will hopefully get to feel more of the zones out and see what kind of position we are really in. I keep sidetracking.. point is as far as I know, wardens are good. Can't say about furies because most of ours are either alts or don't group. I really can't imagine they are too bad though. I have played both and they are both very strong healers.
  7. Ryonyx Member

    Ok but seriously, what about on TLE/Kaladim? Or just in general... which healer pumps out the most raw healing capability? Its usually Warden right? I see so many healers/groups fail because of throughput.... idk whagbi want to heal as..
  8. Cviidar New Member

    Answering Ryonyx. This is for TLE, Live has some different issues that can change things.

    Any of the healers can function as solo heals in a group setting on the TLE server. I say this as an Inquisitor on the TLE server which arguably has the worst healing among the six priest classes. The choice of which healer comes down more to play style than anything else.

    But looking solely at healing you have to start out by looking at the different ways each arch type uses to heal. Shamans use wards, druids have heal over time spells and clerics have reactive heals. Really the following is just the basics but you have to start with what each arch type does before you start comparing templars vs. inquisitors, defilers vs. mystics and furies vs. wardens.

    Wards are considered to be the king of heals and for good reason. Wards stop any damage from occurring in the first place. It doesn't matter how the damage comes in, the ward will absorb it That's why shaman are critical on raids. For example, tank has 18,000 hp and is warded for at least 2001 hp. Mob hits for 20,000 hp. Tank is still alive after the hit. Neither druids or clerics can keep another player alive when they are hit for more hp than they have, shaman can. The disadvantage of wards is they are less efficient than reactives or heal over time spells. Just a quick comparison of the level 68 single target heals (base master): all three arch types of heals take the same power. Shaman ward is for 1788. Cleric reactive procs or druid heal over time ticks are 5 ticks/procs for 433-530 giving a full potential of 2165-2650. The advantage is you can absolutely sure that the full potential of the ward is available for the duration of the spell.

    Reactive heals are heals that proc when a player is hit. Personally, I consider them to be the worst of the arch type heals. They are good for when the player is getting hit repeatedly for low to moderate damage such as group content with a plate tank. Clerics will struggle when trying to heal a leather tank. I've played both as a Templar and as an Inquisitor (mostly the latter). There have only been two fights where I out healed a Defiler. One was the books ring event fight in Ward of Elements off of Lavastorm. The other was a few expansions later where the mob had a crazy arcane AOE. The books fight was the only one where reactives excelled in a raid situation because the tank was taking small but rapid hits that would just eat through a ward in no time but reactives would trigger like crazy and heal the tank due to the hits being far smaller than the reactive proc. The arcane fight wasn't due to reactives being better than wards but because Templars have an arcane ward of their own (an inquisitor would have had no chance on that fight).

    Unlike wards or reactives which do their healing up fronts, druid heal over time spells do their healing after the fact. They do well with steady damage or with low frequency spike damage. Druid heal over time spells also have an added advantage where any unused ticks of the heal will be trigger when the spell expires (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't actually play a druid but I remember them adding this several years ago). The druid group heal over time also has a huge advantage over the cleric group reactive. Both the cleric reactive proc and the druid heal over time tick have the same heal values. Where they differ is in is potential. The cleric reactive has only 9 procs that will both only proc at the instant that the damage is applied and is spread across up to 6 players. The druid heal over time tick will be applied to every group member on a steady basis plus that ending heal when the spell expires. This gives the druid over 3 times the group healing potential when compared to cleric group reactives. The disadvantage of the group heal over time spell when compared to wards or reactives is that the heal is a fixed spread across all group members. With either the shaman wards or cleric reactives it is possible for every bit of the group heal going just to one person (tank) where a druid group heal over time is on a fixed spread regardless of how damage is coming in.
  9. Ryonyx Member

    WOW! This is a very well thought out and thorough response, of which I greatly appreciate! Thank you, this helps me look at the different healing types and their pros/cons clearly. Makes me lean toward Shaman and Warden over Templay anyday... i guess I never actually considered the thing with the group heals of each. Shamans group Ward can be Solely used just if the tanks getting hit and to its maximum efficiency, while like you said Druids can be wasted, but also the best healer to recover group members HP after lots of group damage has occurred, whereas Shaman prevents it and Templars slightly in between?... Idk kind of sounds like the go to is either Shaman or Druid. Your detailed explanation makes Clerics sound almost bad in general.. Heh. Also, after all ofv this you then have to consider what tank you have in group and are healing.... because sk/pally will probably Jive better with druid/sham and Zerk/Guard might do well with Templar reactives due to high physical mitigation and taking many raw hits easily??? Anyways, this was much appreciated insight! Think im deleting my Templar and trying a Mystic now! Hehe. Keeping the Warden however!!
  10. Cviidar New Member

    One thing to keep in mind regarding clerics is Templars have far more healing than Inquisitors. Both have the standard direct heals, group heal, single target reactive and group reactive. Templars also have another single target reactive (high power but also heals for twice as much as the regular reactive), a buff that allows a group mate to proc a group heal, a buff that will heal a group mate whenever that player uses power, and two debuffs that will proc heals. With all the different heals that a Templar can stack, as long as the player (tank) survives the initial hit, Templar heals will make it seem like they're not taking damage in the first place. Inquisitors have their own advantages but healing is not among them.
  11. Ryonyx Member

    True, i did forget about all the "extras" Templar has in the form of Debuffs that proc heals and passive buffs, but that makes me think this - have to "deal with" cast all that, including the Extra Dam Lengthy Group cast Reactive just to be "equal" to casting a Group ward and ST ward from the Shaman?... Seems like so much extra "work" / concentration to play something equally similar in value and output?... Idk. Maybe im off thinking this, but seems pretty accurate...
  12. UpperCutter New Member


    Any healer can solo heal, although fury seems to be the trickiest. Warden can stoneskinn the tank past some big hits, although they seem to have lost their ability to ward from losing the orange mastery rune. For channelers...if you happen on Skyfire, talk to Channelot I think he's a raider with Legion and can solo heal T2s. I've had the pleasure of grouping with him several times -very friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful player.
  13. Hennyo Member

    So one thing I am seeing left out of all this talk that is very important is "damage reductions" which is a stat that lowers the incoming damage by the percentage you have it at, with it capping at 50%, effectively doubling the HP of someone.

    If your looking at a healer for BoL, with the removal of the class runes, wardens lost their wards they had last xpac while furies still have their "DR" which they have in spades compared to say a warden. So while yes wardens have stronger heals than furies, it has to be considered that right now in the current game, furies scale with gear better than wardens do.

    Also if you consider a shaman, as I play a mystic myself, bleed through in group content right now is outright stupid. Yes I can solo heal groups, but the BT makes it no fun, this isn't an issue you will see while soloing, or even in raiding, it is a heroic unique issue.

    Also, just going to reiterate, channnelers are the current king of heals among healers, but for all the healing they bring, they have a real lack of group buffs, but if your main concern is heroic content, this typically isn't that big of a deal. On the other far side of the spectrum, mystics are the king of group buffs, with this xpac inquisitors also not being a bad option.
  14. Ghorast Active Member

    for additional TLE perspective:
    Templars stoneskin buff is pretty busted +shield ally with the heritage shield in EoF will be nuts
    inq has super good buffes for melee group so it makes up for slightly worse healing
    mystic has bolster which is op as ****
    defiler is tank healing in easy mode but no bolster
    fury is a dps/healer hybrid with great personal dps and fast burst healing for group and has great synergy with usual mage group temps (curse, ice lash etc) and Turtle Shell will be op in EoF
    warden is warden
  15. Shaoli Member

    Templar is the only priest that can keep with druids due current combat mechanics
  16. Ryonyx Member

    Im thinking I might re-roll my Templar and give it another fair shot up to level 70... this is on TLE. I got to 40 and got discouraged by the slow gameplay and not being able to heal much, esp mentored tanks with crap ton of HP but atv70 and with gear and spells/aasI think it'll be much better... sounds like they can be very strong and useful/heal slot and very strong buffs as well. So we shall see! Heheh. Thanks again for all the info and light shared on this topic!
  17. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    I've had all the classes for healers and each brings something to the table. Cvildar did an excellent job of digging into the basics. I current play a raid inqy on Maj'dul. Love the character and what he brings to the table in terms of buffs and everyone loves "Verdict," haha. The one thing I have to contend with is slow casting times, so if you want to play an inqy, you need to be able to anticipate what you're going to need to cast and when. I also have a templar, but he's still 110. They are awesome as MT healers and bring a lot to the table, but you have to love the toon because DPS isn't one of their strong suits. It requires patience and the journey can be a struggle, but a templar in the right hands is a force to be reckoned with.
    Hands down favorite healer is my warden. The HOTs, 4 detriment cures and potential for DPS is awesome. The Epic 2.0 pet was also a beast in CD. One of our top healers/DPSers in raid is a warden. The guy turns out serious numbers. We partner up well in group or raid. I'm still working the inqy up, but I like it a lot. My warden will probably be my favorite healer simply for the buffs, versatility, and ability to solo.
    Shamans were the king of the hill until DBG introduced bleed through. They are still valuable healers, but they took some major hits.
    Channellers are rather unique in their approach and they too have versatility. They can heal, dps, etc. If they have one drawback, they have virtually no group buffs. They are solid healers however.
    I have a BL and yes, in Spiritual, they can heal/regen power. I love the versatility, but I don't consider them a healer class. They can augment a single healer if needed, but I'm not aware of anyone who plays a BL that can solo heal.
    Depending on which version of the game you're currently in, power draining can play havoc. The warden has the tree which can restore some power. The channeller has an AA spec that allows him/her to cure a det and restore power. A healer without power is problematic, so that advantage has value. Yes, it's lovely to have a coercer/illy/dirge in the group, but that's not always an option unless you have a steady group you run with.
    Regardless of which you play, pick a class that resonates with your play style and what you want to do in game. Right now, my favs to log into are my inqy, warden, and channeller. The others are pretty much on the shelf atm. That said, and you'll hear this said frequently, it's not necessarily the class, but the person playing it. And I've seen that illustrated, as many of us have, time and time again. Don't get caught up in the FOTM of which healer class is best to play right now, because over the years, it seems to vary. I have my own ideas what that is, but that's not germane to this discussion.
    Have fun!!
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  18. Bludd Well-Known Member

    yes everyone loves verdict <3 <3 <3
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  19. Ryonyx Member

    Thank you for all the wonderful information and feedback. Im playing Kaladim TLE personally so its going to be a bit different obviously but I guess I'm looking for a "Pure Healer" as I mained Warden back from 80-100 lvl cap and they were turned into to heavy melee/dps'ers of which I don't enjoy doing while I'm Healing. So I guess from your explanation of Templars and them not really DPSing at all, I guess that seems to be the Healer that fits the play style I'm looking for best... It being Slow I'll have to get used to... I'm used to the fast casts and amazing group healing and hots of Warden... so I'll definitely miss that. But time to try something new that I can potentially end up love playing as!!! Thanks again!
  20. quisling Well-Known Member

    On TLE, the closest to pure healer IS the templar..because they really cant do much else.