The intention is to make it so that these work on these recipes correctly, and only specific components will not be affected by conservation abilities. I don't have a specific ETA on when I'll have that in, but it is definitely in the pipe for the near future.
Interesting. "NO-CONSERVE" flag? Flavor text on unconservable items? I can see why it's not a high-priority fix... saving an amethyst or lump of coal or two while losing all the worthwhile/expensive components doesn't sound like something I'd care that much about. Scheduled for April, or so?
I agree. Having it proc and just returning junk is just rubbing salt in the wound - better just to remove it completely.
Prrasha, there are plenty of "high level adventuring abilities" that don't work in specific circumstances. Epic mobs can't be crowd controlled (unless specifically made not immune). Lots of named mobs are immune to various abilities. Some mobs have unresistable effects like stun, stifle, and fear (trust me as a crusader it was infuriating when you first encounter it. You just have to accept that its the way the devs want it to go for this encounter and get over it If you can't, then don't spec into fear immunity like everybody else does.). Just because you have an ability it doesn't mean its going to work 100% of the time. Ever. Now that crafters have some very nice abilities we've run into one of those exceptions. The devs want their time sink preserved. My suggestion is you ask politely and then stop waiting for it to happen. Either they reconsider or they don't but after you've asked your done. Continuing to pester and brood about it just becomes annoying to everybody involved.
I'm starting to agree. Lets get rid of the tradeskill AA and prestige abilities. I'm really tired of listening to the whining.
Then why not let us craft it for the same as the purchase price but let us still get the DI back on the procs? I don't understand why all of a sudden this expansion has exceptions. Isn't it enough that I had to grind heroics / tradeskill quests until my eyes bled to buy a book that was 650? Along with having to spend the currency on my own gems? There is no reward for this other than maybe a tip from another player, which is a gamble. Not everyone understands the pain of having to pay for that book and the effort it took. Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe with the Rygor armor, it could be purchased from a merchant in Eastern Wastes for a steep price, OR it could be crafted with a discount by a tradeskiller and I know for a fact that when it was crafted and the shawl did its magic, it saved the shards AND the gemstone.
Yep, you'll have to make almost a full set of green gems to break even. The real benefit is being able to get tips from other players...or selling the DE by making green gems and brokering them. And while your right about the old Rygor recipes, it isn't the same as it is today. The shawl use to be a normalized proc on any tick of a combine and there was no tradeskill AA or prestige abilities. Then people abused it and the proc got changed to a 3% chance. Then tradeskill AA went in and the shawl got nerfed to a 1% chance. If you look at the history of it, the chance to get back all your ingredients has been a frequently shifting target. So this most recent case shouldn't be all that surprising.
Not what I meant. If they don't want it to return the incense (a decision I disagree with) then the proc simply should not happen, returning the other components is pointless and annoying. There is no need to remove the AA entirely though.
I could understand the " intended discount " scenario IF we were getting the recipes for free. However with the cost of the gem recipes and the time / inconvenience of having to commission the gems of course they have to be at a lower cost than buying them from a vendor. However I fail to see why that should effect the shawl / AA proccing and giving back all components.
The simplest solution is just to make it where neither the shawl or CoM works on any fuel components. This would also solve the problem of fuel having a different price per unit when you try to sell the remainder of a stack back to the vendor after either of those procs. It might tick some people off, but it would probably be the easiest way to fix the issue.
Except the unconservable stuff from Cobalt Scar recipes wasn't the fuel, it was the other components. I think they're making a universal solution, here, not just an etyma solution. And the fuel price changes come from the returns from the 20%-savings-on-every-combine prestige ability (which is a bogus thing to do, anyway...your returned fuel should be full-price fuel, especially since it merges with current stacks and devalues them all), not the proc-to-use-nothing abilities.
I believe Conservation of Mass worked for me when I was making a Blue Gem. I got the 25 essense back. Is this intended? I get the impression from this thread it is not. This makes no sense. It clearly should work for all components and fuel or they should change the language in the description of "Conservation of Mass". The Green Recipe cost is HUGE. It is a huge price for any non hardcore dedicated person to pay, and the returns are not going to be seen quickly. So I hope conservation works for the making of the Green Gem like it does for the blue. Many hardcore players will more than likely get the raid pieces. 15 minutes of raiding and a little DKP = 2 weeks of hard grinding for etymas. So where exactly is the return? The Brell Cloak not working is just a kick in the ovaries to any crafter. It is insulting to the people that worked so hard to get that, and when it finally works for somebody, they get nothing. Seriously it is only a 1 percent chance. OUCH! Systematic Conservation is what is clearly broken. This should be rewarding crafters with a percentage of essence fuel returns like on all other items, or that description should be rewritten for honesty. I understand that the Dev team might think they have sometype of balance issue they are trying to figure out, but I don't see why crafters should pay a high price for what the crafters have worked hard to do. Nor do I see why we should be basically insulted. I don't think I am being overly sensitive on this. Reward crafters for the time we put into the game don't punish or taunt us. I could say that balancing would have been easy by lower the cost of a recipe, and lowering the savings reduction. You could then have that saving reduction mitigated by Systematic Conservation actually working. Sadly that is too late now since it would be extremely unfair to the people who bought a recipe. Considering how experimenting is rather useless this expansion except for the charm (Good luck making that by the way, the ingredients are near impossible to get.) And Refining is basically useless as well, why not reward the crafters for what they lost and make Systematic Conservation useful.
I was thinking more along the lines of them making the fuel thing for from this point forward (for non-standard fuels) and for all standard fuels. The CS stuff is , and will likely remain, an anomaly. They could create a special set of rules for the CS recipes, but for the rest of Norrath, the fuel thing will likely work. It shouldn't be that difficult to apply the fuel exemption to that ability as well (if they are already coding the fuel exemption for the shawl and CoM). I may have been mistaken about the cause of the price depreciation (mostly because I generally don't sell fuels back - I save them for future use), but the concept of exempting the fuel from anything that modifies the amount used from the standard value (aside from failing to successfully complete the craft - which should return the fuel to the crafter, but consume all other components) is still workable.
Are you sure you are a crafter? What very nice abilities do crafters have that are useful in TOV? Player made gear is substandard to most of the solo zone drops. Only the Charms are decent, BUT and this is a huge BUT, the ingredients for these charms are near impossible to get, and some have yet to be discoed on some servers. Not to mention people use those ingredient for other stuff. Arrows and food. Therefore refining and experimenting is basically useless for almost all crafters in TOV. The time rewards to get plat through adventuring outweighs crafting in many aspects. Oh and as for working for tips, to make plat, I would rather spend plat or quest for the recipe drops than have to put in the huge time sink to get many of the recipes with so little return rewards. Screw time sinks. I really also don't understand why you consistently make the argument of failure is ok, and we should learn to accept it. A pissed off player moves on to another game. Competition is too fierce out there in the gaming world to accept failure and to be forced to accept time sinks. Players want abilties to work as written and not be told by a less than apologetic developer we made a mistake and sometime in the distant future we will clarify things. Sometime in the near distant future is maybe 6 to 9 months from now when EQnext arrives. If it is a product made by the same point of view about quality and acceptence of failure, why would somebody want to play EQNext?
I can try to do that for you if you like, but basically I didn't know about this issue. I was making the gems one at a time and buying the fuel one at a time. After my crafting expertised shined through happened, I was able to make another blue gem without buying fuel. I was only making 4 gems and it happened on my second attempt. So I don't think I did some type of accidental purchase or mistake or miscounting.
Are we sure about that? Has anyone gotten a use-nothing proc on the Spectral Mastery charms, or tried crafting them five-at-a-time to see if the 20% conservation works? (They use stacks of 1, 2, 3, and 4 of the dungeon-dropped materials, so 20% conserve saves nothing if you only make 1.) Even in ToV, they may be exempting non-fuel mats.
Conservation effects were specifically made to not work with mass production when mass production was introduced.
