Dps of warlock vs coercer/sk

Discussion in 'Warlock' started by ARCHIVED-Azekah1, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. ARCHIVED-nereid27 Guest

    yes. that's our big problems. We are top dps class. like assa,ranger. we can do just only DPS. we have not useful buff. so we are not favorite class at grp play.
    in addition, now coercer,illy they got a out parse. they have many goodbuff. so almost ppl are find them.
    Wizzy and Warlock. I don't understand whether we are top dpser or not.
  2. ARCHIVED-conscript Guest

    Demondred wrote:
    No.
    I just lost all respect for you.
  3. ARCHIVED-Hellswrath Guest

    I'll throw in my support for the obviously needed fixes to the dps discrepancies vs. utility among the classes.
    Sorry to see you leave the fight, Zahne. Hopefully they will restore our usefulness and we'll see you on your lock again, happily nuking away.
  4. ARCHIVED-bruco Guest

    Suggest you roll a Warlock on a pvp server if you want to see the real power we have. Where a single warlock will double the parse of anyone else in the group. We are killing machines in pvp
  5. ARCHIVED-AziBam Guest

    Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:
    I'm curious though, and I'm not flaming or being a smart A**. Are your really retiring your lock because you view the class as **** or is it more to do with your raid needs? I don't raid on my lock as it's my alt,alt alt or somewhere down that chain. I know you do raid, or did, with your lock. I know raids are STILL mostly ST content. Even so, it seems to me we do very respectable dps on ST encounters and of course rock on multiples.
    I understand "retiring" a toon just because you get tired of it. I've been there. I also understand a main change when your raid force needs it. Been there too. It just seems to me that warlocks are in as good or better a position here in TSO than they have been since they were forced heavily to the AE side of things..when was that, LU13? before? I honestly don't recall which update other than it was a looooong time ago and I didn't have my warlock yet at that point. Btw, I'm most definitely not saying everything is perfect...just...better than it has been. My perception watching parses is that mages in general have made substantial gains vs. scouts here in TSO. (I'll qualify my comment with noting that our overall highest dpser in RoK was an assassin who doesn't play that toon any longer so I don't get to see that comparison now in TSO.)

    Edit to add:
    P.S. And no, I'm not just posting this to you in the warlock forums in an effort to distract you from trying to get my SK nerfed! :p I really do want to hear from you as a long timer warlock on the question above.
  6. ARCHIVED-Vedian Guest

    Azian@Everfrost wrote:
    Yes, that explains why I see many Warlock LFG for hours upon hours on Unrest server. Warlocks on paper are in a better position. In application they are still left out in the rain.
  7. ARCHIVED-AziBam Guest

    Dezimus@Unrest wrote:
    LOL! Nice tone. All I can say is I haven't had that same problem.
  8. ARCHIVED-Vedian Guest

    Azian@Everfrost wrote:
    I didn't either on other servers. Unrest seems to suffer from Warlock-a-phobia
    Back on track: Aquired gear with both sorcerous alacrity IV and V, added to the II I already have. Casting time and DPS has made a significant improvment, especially with our devastatingly long casting time AE's. Distortion now casts in under 2 sec (1.98 sec exactly) and Devastation casts in 3.07 secs. MUCH better then what it was before.
    Now to see if Alacrity of the same tier stacks with each other ... OFF TO SOH WITH ME!!! :p
  9. ARCHIVED-AziBam Guest

    Dezimus@Unrest wrote:
    I'd be interested to know that too. I also wish that our void armor had a bit more alacrity on it than it does. (Essentially no raiding done on this toon.)
  10. ARCHIVED-Wytie Guest

    Azian@Everfrost wrote:
    It does
  11. ARCHIVED-EndevorX Guest

    I play a level 56 warlock on Nagafen. He is my new main and my highest level on any PvP server. I plan on leveling him up to 80 and getting back into the raid grind (EQ2 started out for me as a nice break from my EQ1 raiding but I have stopped playing EQ1 to focus on EQ2).
    In EQ1 I played a monk and a ranger as mains in my family style raiding guild. Both had roles other than DPS. Monk had pulling/survivablity and ranger had buffs, patch healing, and always got into doing some sort of crowd control with snares, roots, and kiting when I had to.
    I always loved crunching out big numbers on the DPS chart so I decided I'd give up all aspects of survivabilty/utility to excel in damage and go warlock in EQ2. I LOVE my warlock in PvP. I've had so much fun especially vs groups watching everyones HP drop and the healer scrambling to keep everyone alive (if they're lucky enough to have a healer).
    But one thing I never quite understood is why do I give up basically all other aspects of the game to do good DPS and I am getting out DPS'd by classes that can do much more than DPS? It just doesn't make sense to me at all. And right now I am just seeing this on a group level. What happens when I start to raid or rather try to raid? At the warlock's current state, what do I bring to the table that a raid leader would jump up and down to fit me into a raid?
    I love this class so much and don't have a desire to play any other class as a main. Right now I am having fun leveling up, getting AA's, and exploring new content but that doesn't last forever in the end game.
    The only thing that kept me playing EQ1 after I had seen most of it was knowing that my spot on a raid crew was valued by everyone. It was fun getting loot, it was fun finally beating a mob that we whiped on countless times, but what really kept me playing was knowing that my role was sought after. I don't feel very confident that this will be true as a warlock unless something is changed.
  12. ARCHIVED-bellemort Guest

    biggest problem I find with warlocks(and wizards), is as has been stated casting time. Why, when we are, agian as already stated, we are a pure DPS class, quite possibly the only TRUE PURE dps classes, with no utility, those 3 little buffs with a minor damage proc for meelee really dont qualify as utility IMHO, should we have to compete with utility classes for dps. The problem with getting cast time gear, that I have found, is getting cast time, and maintaining spell crit; as it is, almost all the +cast time gear I find, rarely has spell crit; and right now, spell crit is the biggest thing we can get for our DPS output.
    I play a berserker, and a warlock, both lvl 80, with fabled epic, and this is very similar to the problems that berserkers have; our role in the game is very skewed, and broken. Utility classes out DPS us, with incredible ease, and bring 5 times as much to the table. A utility class should not be deprived of DPS, no class should, but they should not be able to make the pure DPS classes obsolete.
    Example: Chanters, massive cast speed, moderate DPS spells, but can cast 5 of those before a sorcerer gets 1 off.
    Why is this??? I have finally, via AA and some pretty decent gear, gotten to where I can consistently parse about 4K average ZW in a group. however, I know chanters who do 5-6K comparably geared, and comparable spell lvls, with alot more ease. I don't claim to be any expert on warlocks, I betrayed from wizard at lvl 78 and am very happy with the change, wizards, IMHO, have it worse on the DPS spectrum then we do, I see warlocks, consistently doing 2X+ DPS of a wizard with relative ease, whether its a single target or group encounter. That not comparing myth locks, but just fabled. I don't believe the warlock class is broken, however, I do believe that utility classes in general are severely OP, and that needs to be fixed. I really don't believe that a competent hard working warlock should ever be outparsed on a group/multi-mob encounter by ANY utility class. However, if sony does a "mage fix" I do hope they actually put some REAL thought into it, and keeping class individuality and identity. NOT the mass vanillafication they have going on with fighters.
  13. ARCHIVED-Rotchi Guest

    Am I the only one that still find warlocks to be a top dps class? I know, I dont post much here, usually just reads and move on.
    I still haven't meet any illy, coercer or sk that have beaten me in zonewide parses, only classes that I seen doing that is Brigands (well, only two Brigand players have done that tbh), Assassins and Wizards.
    Sure we have some broken spells that needs to be fixed, but I just removed them from my hotbar and uses the good ones we have instead.
    /shrug
  14. ARCHIVED-Primalooze Guest

    yeah i gotta agree.... its not recovery i have a problem with... its casting speed....
    the problem is the way that SoE create thier multi-mob encounters....
    2 grouped mobs - mostly ^^ and ^^^ (Warlock suffer because assasins and other scout classes have such quick and fast dps that mob is half dead before my first spell even lands)
    3+ groups.... any thing from ^ to vvv (Warlocks suffers cos classes like Beserkers and other AOE classes have much faster cast times....)
    I have notice alot of my spells seem to have slower casting times compared to a year or 2 ago.... even with T2 void and all that casting increase gear it still doesnt bring us anywhere near competative in the T1 dps field...
    Coercers and SK's dont seem to be a problem for me.... coercers are output absolutely awsome dps.... i did crucible the other day with a coercer and he was pumping out 10k dps on group mobs.... my fully mastered warlock was hitting about 4k... but to be fair to coercers... only ever met one or two of them with the skills and equipment to do this... 80% of them concentrate on regen spec's so they cant put out this dps...
    the other factor that seems to affect warlock dps is resist rate.... i still???... even with very good equipment and our disruption/subjugation buff up get resisted waaaaay to often for my liking.... having an armeggedon or disruption resisted in a group fight pretty much destroys any hope of a high parse.... and i would say that in the difficult TSO zones i get resisted on about 10% of spells unless i am in a troub group and i can convince him to put his skill buff up.... you would have thought that our buff which raises these skills by 30/40 pts would actually make a big difference..... it doesnt...... i am not entirely convinced that this buff even works... or has ever worked......
    its a bad place for warlocks at the moment.... Zero Utility, T2 dps, cloth armor, agro issues.....
  15. ARCHIVED-thajoka Guest

    Theres only 1 item I've seen in game that gives Recovery time...and its 2% recovery at that, which is crap. Pretty sure your mixing up reuse with recovery, or your just interchanging the lingo and mean to speak on reuse when you say recovery. Upbeat tempo gives 25% recovery and Time Compression gives 40%
    Sorcs have like no way to get more casting speed until they starting reach teir 8. Even in teir 7 as a raider cast speed gear wasn't even close to abundant. Best we can do is spec AGI line to get 14% cast speed and 12% reuse. Thats the biggest chunk you'll find until you break into 72 - 80lvls. Once your 80 you can hit up heroic instances that drop things that proc as much as 10% cast speed, or buy shard gear that sprinkles 2 - 5% cast speeds all over its items.
    Disruption has never made the difference SoE seems to want it to make. I think it does help a bit, although I have trouble telling if its just a placebo kind of thing in my head, when troubs do have their skill buffs up.
    It's not a bad place for warlocks at the moment. In TSO they have the highest potential to spike their parses pretty high, you just need much more skilled tanks or better group make-up to handle the dps they can do. If you're going to say locks are at t2 dps you should speak for yourself cause the lock in my guild definetly is not t2 dps and its boggling me to pretend he is.
    Me and my Warlock guildie have done runs through hollow tower where we just stack a troub/dirge/templar/illu and do the run as sorc tanks. Even when I have TC the warlock can out-do my dps since most of that zone is AoE mobs. I'll do like 9.5k and he'll be close to 11k, you locks have gross dps. On just a balls to wall massive aoe encounter the lock almost doubled my dps...and i was doing about 30k.
    All these references are to raid geared sorcs but, as long as your at level cap where you really start min/maxing your character you should start to meet that warlock niche. Especially when lots of group zones are flooded with 3 - 5 - 10 (some even more!) mobs and raids have traps that spawn 15 epic mobs, names like gynok that are just a few minutes straight of aoe burn and mobs that spawn adds by the dozen (literally)...this is definetly the Warlocks Heaven expansion. If you don't like them now, you'll prolly never like them.
  16. ARCHIVED-thajoka Guest

    Primalooze wrote:
    Just out of wonder do you have any backup for that at all? That statement is completly untrue, they havn't changed casting timers. So I'd say you havn't noticed spells taking longer =/ Unless you used to be spec'd AGI and have dropped that since.
  17. ARCHIVED-Primalooze Guest

    Dakkota@Unrest wrote:
    So basically you are saying that in order for a warlock to compete... they MUST have a troub AND a illusionist in group.... how is that a good place for warlocks to be?..... only a small minority of raid guilds can guarantee that sort of setup for thier warlocks...
    If you put a warlock in a less that perfect group then there an argument for leaving them out altogether.... as Scout classes, DPS specc'd tanks and other mage classes will beat them nearly every parse....
    As for warlock heaven.. you must be joking? its better that Rok was....and it would be fine if 30% of the mobs didnt resist when the AOE goes off.... and yeah fine... there are some (not all) TSO zones where we are good at hoovering up trash mobs... until it comes to the majority of the named and our parses drop like crazy...and now that all our nukes have reduced max targets they days of massive AOE nuke fests are long gone.... (Armegeedon =5, Upheaval = 8 cataclysm =12) only radiation and NA hit all targets and casting times for all of these are just soooooo slow its painfull... by the time we get one of these spells cast most classes have already landed 2 or 3.....and some (most) of the mobs (especially those drakes in NT) are already dead.
    As it stands we have 3 dumbfires that are almost useless... broodlings have nowhere near the power they used to have... Acid storm takes too long to cast and doesnt do anywhere near the dps it should... dont even get me started on netheros...
    ALL our AOE nukes take soooo long to cast... 80% of group fights are over before i have cycled though the the 3 big encounter nukes... and as SOE have never fixed the agro though wall situation our 2 out of encounter AOE's bring soo much pain to the group that most warlocks i have spoken too stop using them in instances completly....
    I just cant rationalise it.... Warlocks get no Utility (no Power regen, no useful buffs or debuffs), no surviveabilty (cloth wearers, no evac, FD etc) we are supposed to be Pure DPS....we should be able to stand on our own without requiring the perfect group to reach the dps we should be getting.... any raid leader would be out his mind to run with a good warlock when there is even an average skilled assasin available.....
    Its just depressing tbh... i have been raiding this lock since T5 and have seen it go from arguably the best class in game to its current state...... where i was used to be top of the parse... an i am now relegated to the 5-8th position most raids and thats with the perfect group, good equipment and fully mastered... It seems that the only locks who are happy are the ones decked out in avatar gear and the ones who havnt got a competative bone in them...
  18. ARCHIVED-Rotchi Guest

    Like Dakkota said... warlocks can kick out hell of alot of dps, even when not stacked. When we run heroic zones I rarly have a troub or illy, and my zw ends somewhere between 6-7k dps. Places like stronghold, or any other place with big encounters, I done up to 40k dps some fights.
    When it comes to raiding I mostly have a troub and a illy in my group. My record on a solo mob so far is almost 16k dps. My zonewide on palace trash usually lands between 11-12k.
    I have no avatar gear, no trak belt (Never seen it drop), no najenas ring (after over 100 runs still havn't seen it drop), other then that I am pretty good geared. I am however fully masterd with 200aa.
    With that said... No, I dont agree that warlocks are t2 dps. We are defenetly T1 dps.
  19. ARCHIVED-Primalooze Guest

    Rotchi wrote:
    Are you seriously saying that your assasins arn't doing 5k more than you on 95% of mobs.... probably more if they are in a dirge group.....
    if you are you must have discovered some form of exploit... or your assasins suck big time...!!!
    your setup looks pretty similar to mine and our assasins are parsing higher than any 2 mages put together....bloody hard to get our raid leader to include any non chanter mages these days.....
  20. ARCHIVED-nereid27 Guest

    zone trash almost 16kdps, zonewide 11~12k, without trak-belt, najena ring and avatar gear?
    can't believe. if you got 16k dps. that's your all raid member is uber dpser. or you are in avatar raid guild.
    remember this. almost ppl are not uber guild.

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